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Author Topic: Francis excommunicates the founder of "We Are the Church"!  (Read 2751 times)

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Offline Geremia

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  • Here's an Italian report:
    http://www.tempi.it/papa-francesco-ha-scomunicato-la-fondatrice-di-noi-siamo-chiesa-celebrava-messe-in-casa-con-il-marito

    Quote
    Papa Francesco ha scomunicato Martha Heizer, co-fondatrice e presidente di “Wir sind Kirche” (Noi siamo Chiesa), una delle organizzazioni cattoliche più critiche verso la Chiesa e il suo magistero. Il caso Heizer era scoppiato nel 2011, quando la donna, insegnante di religione a Innsbruck, in Austria, decise di sfidare il Vaticano sulla questione del sacerdozio femminile annunciando la sua intenzione di celebrare l’Eucarestia nella sua casa di Absam, piccolo comune nei pressi del capoluogo tirolese. In seguito la signora 67enne cominciò effettivamente a officiare regolarmente la Messa insieme al marito Gert (anche lui scomunicato), davanti ad altri fedeli e in assenza di sacerdoti, e la Congregazione per la dottrina della fede istituì la commissione che adesso ha stabilito la scomunica. La pratica teorizzata e realizzata dalla teologa, infatti, profanando il sacramento dell’Eucarestia rientra per la Chiesa tra i “delicta graviora”, al pari della pedofilia e dei crimini contro la Penitenza.

    «SIAMO INDIGNATI». Come ha riportato per primo il Tiroler Tageszeitung, ieri sera il vescovo di Innsbruck Manfred Scheuer ha voluto consegnare personalmente il decreto di Roma a Marta e Gert Heizer, ma la coppia lo ha respinto. Questa mattina poi i due hanno divulgato un comunicato in cui si dicono scioccati per la scelta della Chiesa. «Ci indigna profondamente il fatto di ritrovarci nella stessa categoria dei preti colpevoli di abusi. Ma siamo amareggiati soprattutto perché non conosciamo un solo caso in cui un colpevole di abusi sia stato scomunicato. (…) Non abbiamo accettato il decreto, ma al contrario lo abbiamo respinto. Non abbiamo mai accettato il processo nella sua struttura e conseguentemente non accettiamo neanche la condanna. Continueremo a impegnarci con maggior forza per la riforma della Chiesa cattolica. Proprio questo modo di procedere mostra con quanta urgenza essa abbia bisogno di un rinnovamento».

    IL GRUPPO. Il movimento “Wir sind Kirche”, oggi uno dei più numerosi e sicuramente tra i più attivi in Europa nel promuovere modifiche in senso progressista della dottrina cattolica, nacque intorno a un piccolo gruppo di cattolici di Innsbruck capitanato da Thomas Plankesteiner e appunto da Martha Heizer – ricorda Giacomo Galeazzi per il Vatican Insider – che nell’aprile del 1995 pubblicò un “Appello dal popolo di Dio” rivolto alla gerarchia della Chiesa per chiedere proprio l’introduzione del sacerdozio femminile, oltre a una maggiore democrazia, all’abolizione del celibato dei preti e all’adeguamento della morale sessuale ai costumi moderni. Il testo raccolse moltissime adesioni in tutto il continente ma soprattutto in Austria e in Germania (rispettivamente 505 mila e 1,8 milioni di firme).
    Quote from: quickly edited machine translation
    Pope Francis excommunicated Martha Heizer, co-founder and president of " Wir sind Kirche " ( We Are the Church ) , one of the organizations most critical of the Catholic Church and its teachings . The case of Heizer broke out in 2011, when the woman, a teacher of religion in Innsbruck, Austria, decided to challenge the Vatican on the issue of women priests announcing her intention to celebrate the Eucharist at her home in Absam, a small town near of Innsbruck .  The 67 year old lady actually began to regularly officiate the Mass with her husband, Gert (who was also excommunicated), in front of other believers and in the absence of priests, and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith established the orgazination has now been excommunicated. The practice theorized and conducted by the theologian, in fact, profaning the sacrament of the Eucharist, is for the Church a "delicta graviora ", like pedophilia and crimes against Penance.

    "We are outraged." As first reported the Tiroler Tageszeitung, yesterday evening the Bishop of Innsbruck Manfred Scheuer wanted to personally deliver the decree of Rome to Martha Heizer and Gert, but the couple dismissed it. This morning then the two have released a statement in which he said he is shocked by the reaction of the Church. "We deeply indignant at the fact finding ourselves in the same category of priests guilty of abuse. But we are especially bitter because we do not know a single case in which a person guilty of abuse has been excommunicated. (...) We did not accept the decree, but on the contrary we have rejected it. We have never accepted the decree in its structure and consequently we do not accept either the sentence. We will continue to engage with greater force to reform the Catholic Church. Precisely this approach shows how urgently it needs a renewal. "

    THE GROUP. The movement "Wir sind Kirche", one of the most numerous and certainly among the most active in Europe in promoting progressive changes in the sense of Catholic doctrine, was born around a small group of Catholics led by Thomas Innsbruck Plankesteiner and precisely by Martha Heizer - remember Giacomo Galeazzi Vatican Insider for - that in April 1995 he published an "Appeal by the people of God" addressed to the hierarchy of the Church to ask for the introduction of women priests, in addition to greater democracy, the abolition of celibacy the priests and the adjustment of sɛҳuąƖ morality to modern customs. The text of many accessions collected across the continent but especially in Austria and Germany (respectively 505 000 and 1.8 million signatures).
    Although priests sodomizing children is sacrilege, is it as bad as profaning the Holy Eucharist? Matters of faith are far more serious than moral matters.
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    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Francis excommunicates the founder of "We Are the Church"!
    « Reply #1 on: May 22, 2014, 04:43:50 PM »
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  • The wolf in sheep's clothing will occasionally bleat.  Don't be fooled.
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Francis excommunicates the founder of "We Are the Church"!
    « Reply #2 on: May 22, 2014, 05:38:44 PM »
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  • Quote from: Mithrandylan
    The wolf in sheep's clothing will occasionally bleat.  Don't be fooled.


    Exactly.

    Meanwhile, back on the ranch, the pro-abort politicians still receive communion.



    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Charlemagne

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    Francis excommunicates the founder of "We Are the Church"!
    « Reply #3 on: May 22, 2014, 05:49:35 PM »
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  • Santo subito! :rolleyes:
    "This principle is most certain: The non-Christian cannot in any way be Pope. The reason for this is that he cannot be head of what he is not a member. Now, he who is not a Christian is not a member of the Church, and a manifest heretic is not a Christian, as is clearly taught by St. Cyprian, St. Athanasius, St. Augustine, St. Jerome, and others. Therefore, the manifest heretic cannot be Pope." -- St. Robert Bellarmine

    Offline poche

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    Francis excommunicates the founder of "We Are the Church"!
    « Reply #4 on: May 22, 2014, 10:46:01 PM »
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  • Quote from: Geremia
    Here's an Italian report:
    http://www.tempi.it/papa-francesco-ha-scomunicato-la-fondatrice-di-noi-siamo-chiesa-celebrava-messe-in-casa-con-il-marito

    Quote
    Papa Francesco ha scomunicato Martha Heizer, co-fondatrice e presidente di “Wir sind Kirche” (Noi siamo Chiesa), una delle organizzazioni cattoliche più critiche verso la Chiesa e il suo magistero. Il caso Heizer era scoppiato nel 2011, quando la donna, insegnante di religione a Innsbruck, in Austria, decise di sfidare il Vaticano sulla questione del sacerdozio femminile annunciando la sua intenzione di celebrare l’Eucarestia nella sua casa di Absam, piccolo comune nei pressi del capoluogo tirolese. In seguito la signora 67enne cominciò effettivamente a officiare regolarmente la Messa insieme al marito Gert (anche lui scomunicato), davanti ad altri fedeli e in assenza di sacerdoti, e la Congregazione per la dottrina della fede istituì la commissione che adesso ha stabilito la scomunica. La pratica teorizzata e realizzata dalla teologa, infatti, profanando il sacramento dell’Eucarestia rientra per la Chiesa tra i “delicta graviora”, al pari della pedofilia e dei crimini contro la Penitenza.

    «SIAMO INDIGNATI». Come ha riportato per primo il Tiroler Tageszeitung, ieri sera il vescovo di Innsbruck Manfred Scheuer ha voluto consegnare personalmente il decreto di Roma a Marta e Gert Heizer, ma la coppia lo ha respinto. Questa mattina poi i due hanno divulgato un comunicato in cui si dicono scioccati per la scelta della Chiesa. «Ci indigna profondamente il fatto di ritrovarci nella stessa categoria dei preti colpevoli di abusi. Ma siamo amareggiati soprattutto perché non conosciamo un solo caso in cui un colpevole di abusi sia stato scomunicato. (…) Non abbiamo accettato il decreto, ma al contrario lo abbiamo respinto. Non abbiamo mai accettato il processo nella sua struttura e conseguentemente non accettiamo neanche la condanna. Continueremo a impegnarci con maggior forza per la riforma della Chiesa cattolica. Proprio questo modo di procedere mostra con quanta urgenza essa abbia bisogno di un rinnovamento».

    IL GRUPPO. Il movimento “Wir sind Kirche”, oggi uno dei più numerosi e sicuramente tra i più attivi in Europa nel promuovere modifiche in senso progressista della dottrina cattolica, nacque intorno a un piccolo gruppo di cattolici di Innsbruck capitanato da Thomas Plankesteiner e appunto da Martha Heizer – ricorda Giacomo Galeazzi per il Vatican Insider – che nell’aprile del 1995 pubblicò un “Appello dal popolo di Dio” rivolto alla gerarchia della Chiesa per chiedere proprio l’introduzione del sacerdozio femminile, oltre a una maggiore democrazia, all’abolizione del celibato dei preti e all’adeguamento della morale sessuale ai costumi moderni. Il testo raccolse moltissime adesioni in tutto il continente ma soprattutto in Austria e in Germania (rispettivamente 505 mila e 1,8 milioni di firme).
    Quote from: quickly edited machine translation
    Pope Francis excommunicated Martha Heizer, co-founder and president of " Wir sind Kirche " ( We Are the Church ) , one of the organizations most critical of the Catholic Church and its teachings . The case of Heizer broke out in 2011, when the woman, a teacher of religion in Innsbruck, Austria, decided to challenge the Vatican on the issue of women priests announcing her intention to celebrate the Eucharist at her home in Absam, a small town near of Innsbruck .  The 67 year old lady actually began to regularly officiate the Mass with her husband, Gert (who was also excommunicated), in front of other believers and in the absence of priests, and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith established the orgazination has now been excommunicated. The practice theorized and conducted by the theologian, in fact, profaning the sacrament of the Eucharist, is for the Church a "delicta graviora ", like pedophilia and crimes against Penance.

    "We are outraged." As first reported the Tiroler Tageszeitung, yesterday evening the Bishop of Innsbruck Manfred Scheuer wanted to personally deliver the decree of Rome to Martha Heizer and Gert, but the couple dismissed it. This morning then the two have released a statement in which he said he is shocked by the reaction of the Church. "We deeply indignant at the fact finding ourselves in the same category of priests guilty of abuse. But we are especially bitter because we do not know a single case in which a person guilty of abuse has been excommunicated. (...) We did not accept the decree, but on the contrary we have rejected it. We have never accepted the decree in its structure and consequently we do not accept either the sentence. We will continue to engage with greater force to reform the Catholic Church. Precisely this approach shows how urgently it needs a renewal. "

    THE GROUP. The movement "Wir sind Kirche", one of the most numerous and certainly among the most active in Europe in promoting progressive changes in the sense of Catholic doctrine, was born around a small group of Catholics led by Thomas Innsbruck Plankesteiner and precisely by Martha Heizer - remember Giacomo Galeazzi Vatican Insider for - that in April 1995 he published an "Appeal by the people of God" addressed to the hierarchy of the Church to ask for the introduction of women priests, in addition to greater democracy, the abolition of celibacy the priests and the adjustment of sɛҳuąƖ morality to modern customs. The text of many accessions collected across the continent but especially in Austria and Germany (respectively 505 000 and 1.8 million signatures).
    Although priests sodomizing children is sacrilege, is it as bad as profaning the Holy Eucharist? Matters of faith are far more serious than moral matters.


    It looks like Pope FRancis is doing his job as Pope.
     :cool: :cool: :cool:


    Offline Cantarella

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    Francis excommunicates the founder of "We Are the Church"!
    « Reply #5 on: May 22, 2014, 10:54:14 PM »
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  • He probably should excommunicate a good 95% of all the hierarchy also.

    Perhaps, even himself?  :rolleyes:
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline soulguard

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    Francis excommunicates the founder of "We Are the Church"!
    « Reply #6 on: May 23, 2014, 03:54:58 AM »
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  • Maybe its all of those millions of rosaries being offered for him ( and masses ) that is turning him into a Catholic - gradually. The church cant  disown her own history after all - unless it start again from scratch, but then it would not be "Catholic".

    Offline soulguard

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    Francis excommunicates the founder of "We Are the Church"!
    « Reply #7 on: May 23, 2014, 03:56:19 AM »
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  • Quote from: poche

    It looks like Pope FRancis is doing his job as Pope.
     :cool: :cool: :cool:


     :cool: :cool: :cool:


    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    Francis excommunicates the founder of "We Are the Church"!
    « Reply #8 on: May 23, 2014, 11:14:48 AM »
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  • These two people are really harmless, albeit they may have decided to follow the "spirit of Vatican II" a little too closely.  They are in their 60's so when they heard the novus ordo presider say things like "Everybodies a minister of the eucharist, my friend" they decided to follow that up with an "if everyone's a minister of the eucharist, why not add that everybody's a consecrator of the eucharist too".

    Or maybe they took the "royal priesthood" schtick a little too seriously.

    Others have mentioned that this excommunication is all nice and good and about time but they asked why pro-abort politicians aren't excommunicated.  I say for the simple reason that bullies don't go around punching people who can punch back.

    Or, more sinister still, this could be some form of fαℓѕє fℓαg.  If a hubbub ensues, the Vatican may rescind the excommunication and subtlely slip in a big change in a small way.  

     :pray: ------> For all souls, living and dead!

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Francis excommunicates the founder of "We Are the Church"!
    « Reply #9 on: May 23, 2014, 01:38:21 PM »
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  • My brothers and I used to call it Novus Ordo excommunitycation.

    Offline Geremia

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    Francis excommunicates the founder of "We Are the Church"!
    « Reply #10 on: May 24, 2014, 11:28:24 PM »
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  • Quote from: Cantarella
    Perhaps, even himself?  :rolleyes:
    That's what a latæ sententiæ excommunication is, and he's already incurred that.  :heretic:
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    Offline poche

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    Francis excommunicates the founder of "We Are the Church"!
    « Reply #11 on: May 27, 2014, 04:37:05 AM »
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  • Quote from: Capt McQuigg
    These two people are really harmless, albeit they may have decided to follow the "spirit of Vatican II" a little too closely.  They are in their 60's so when they heard the novus ordo presider say things like "Everybodies a minister of the eucharist, my friend" they decided to follow that up with an "if everyone's a minister of the eucharist, why not add that everybody's a consecrator of the eucharist too".

    Or maybe they took the "royal priesthood" schtick a little too seriously.

    Others have mentioned that this excommunication is all nice and good and about time but they asked why pro-abort politicians aren't excommunicated.  I say for the simple reason that bullies don't go around punching people who can punch back.

    Or, more sinister still, this could be some form of fαℓѕє fℓαg.  If a hubbub ensues, the Vatican may rescind the excommunication and subtlely slip in a big change in a small way.  

     :pray: ------> For all souls, living and dead!

    Actually Pope Pius XII wrote about the priesthood of all the faithful.

    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    Francis excommunicates the founder of "We Are the Church"!
    « Reply #12 on: May 27, 2014, 10:47:48 AM »
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  • Quote from: poche
    Quote from: Capt McQuigg
    These two people are really harmless, albeit they may have decided to follow the "spirit of Vatican II" a little too closely.  They are in their 60's so when they heard the novus ordo presider say things like "Everybodies a minister of the eucharist, my friend" they decided to follow that up with an "if everyone's a minister of the eucharist, why not add that everybody's a consecrator of the eucharist too".

    Or maybe they took the "royal priesthood" schtick a little too seriously.

    Others have mentioned that this excommunication is all nice and good and about time but they asked why pro-abort politicians aren't excommunicated.  I say for the simple reason that bullies don't go around punching people who can punch back.

    Or, more sinister still, this could be some form of fαℓѕє fℓαg.  If a hubbub ensues, the Vatican may rescind the excommunication and subtlely slip in a big change in a small way.  

     :pray: ------> For all souls, living and dead!

    Actually Pope Pius XII wrote about the priesthood of all the faithful.


    Maybe Traditio is right about him after all?   :wink: