Author Topic: Who are you allowed to hate? (Read 3880 times)

Matthew · « **on:** December 02, 2014, 10:07:32 AM »

Who is a Catholic allowed to hate?

Barack Obama?
Pope Francis?
The extremely liberal Cardinals?
Prince Philip? (who wants to be re-incarnated as a killer pandemic virus, to "do something about the overpopulation problem")
Ted Turner? (who donated 1 Billion to the UN -- for population control)
Bill Gates?
The Board of Monsanto? (which perpetrates untold evils upon the world)
The ʝʊdɛօ-Masons?
The Illuminati?

Correct Answer: None of the above.

We can state the truth (i.e., the fact that these men above are literally and directly working for Satan) and we can oppose them with all our being, and we can hate the evil they stand for, but we can't HATE them.

Why?

Because they have not been condemned or judged by the Just Judge yet. From the greatest to the least of them, ANY of them could theoretically convert tomorrow (ex miraculo -- by a miracle!) and after a long purgatory, could praise God forever and ever in Heaven!

Only the devils in hell can be hated by a Catholic wishing to maintain the State of Grace in his soul.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #1 on:** December 02, 2014, 10:15:51 AM »

This very obvious point of Christian charity is often forgotten by Traditional Catholics today.

And there are degrees of hatred.

If sedevacantists, for instance, were asked whether they hate Francis, they would say, "No, of course not." But their words and tones and actions indicate otherwise, that they despise the man.

Imagine for a second if Jorge Bergoglio were your son. Would you still have the same contempt for him or would you now be praying fervently and with love for his conversion?

MyrnaM · « **Reply #2 on:** December 02, 2014, 10:15:59 AM »

This is so true, has anyone ever seen that bumper sticker..."Don't criticize me, God isn't done with me yet"...?

Cantarella · « **Reply #3 on:** December 02, 2014, 11:11:15 AM »

Yes, strict adherence to orthodoxy without a sincere love for souls is fruitless. It only produces bitter zeal that poisons the soul. Everyone falling prey of this lack of charity should read St. Francis de Sales. It is very important to remember that there is always hope that God's grace is bestowed upon the hardenest of sinners.

Cantarella · « **Reply #4 on:** December 02, 2014, 11:33:44 AM »

There is a place for "Virtuous Hatred" in Catholic charity:

From the Summa:

Quote from: st Thomas

Whether sinners must be loved out of charity

Objection 1: It seems that we should not love sinners out of charity. For it is written in the Psalms:"I have hated the wicked" (Ps 118:113). Now, David had perfect charity. Therefore, sinners should be hated rather than loved, out of charity.

Objection 2: Further, "love is proved by deeds," as St. Gregory says in a homily for Pentecost (In Evang. 30). But good men do no works of love to the wicked: on the contrary they do works that appear to be of hate, according to the Psalm (100: 8): "In the morning I put to death all the wicked of the land;" also, God commanded in Exodus (22:18): "You shall not suffer a witch to live." Therefore, sinners should not be loved out of charity.

Objection 3: Further, it is proper to friendship that one should desire and wish good things for one's friends. Now the saints, out of charity, desired evil things for the wicked, according to Psalm 9:18: "May the wicked be turned into Hell." Therefore sinners should not be loved out of charity.

Objection 4: Further, it is proper to friends to rejoice in and desire the same things. Now charity does not make us desire what the sinners desire, nor to rejoice in what gives them joy, but rather the contrary. Therefore, sinners should not be loved out of charity.

Objection 5: Further, it is proper to friends to associate together, according to Ethics (chap 5, n. 3). But we should not associate with sinners, according to 2 Cor 6: 17: "Wherefore come out from among them and be separate." Therefore, we should not love sinners out of charity.

On the contrary, Augustine says (De Doctrina Christi I, 30), "When it is said: Thou shalt love thy neighbor, it is evident that we ought to look upon every man as our neighbor." Now, sinners do not cease to be men, for sin does not destroy nature. Therefore, we ought to love sinners out of charity.

I answer to these arguments that two things should be considered in the sinner, his nature and his guilt. According to his nature, which he has from God, he has a capacity for eternal happiness upon which the relationship of charity is based. as stated above (A. 3, q. 23, a. 1-5). Wherefore, we ought to love sinners out of charity in respect to their nature. [4]

On the other hand, their guilt offends God and is an impediment to their eternal happiness. Wherefore, in respect to their guilt, so long as they offend God all sinners ought to be hated, even one's father or mother or kindred, according to Luke (14:26). [5] For it is our duty to hate in the sinner his being a sinner, and to love in him his being a man capable of achieving eternal happiness. [6] This is to love him out of charity for the love of God.

Reply to objection 1: The Prophet hated the iniquitous as such, and the object of his hate was their iniquity. [7] This is the perfect hatred of which the same Prophet says (Ps. 139: 22): �I hate them with a perfect hatred.� Now, for this same reason one hates what is bad in a person and loves what is good in him. Hence also this perfect hatred belongs to charity. [8]

Reply to objection 2: As the Philosopher observes (Ethics, 9, 3), when our friends fall into sin, we should not deny them the benefits of friendship so long as there is hope of their mending their ways. And we should help them regain virtue more readily than to regain money, had they lost it, for virtue means more to friendship than money. [9]

When, however, such persons fall into very great wickedness and become incurable, we should refuse them friendly treatment. It is for this reason that both divine and human laws command such sinners to be put to death, because it is more likely that they will harm others than mend their ways. [10]

Nevertheless the judge issues such sentences not out of hatred for the sinners, but out of love of charity, because he prefers the public good to the life of one single person. Moreover, the death inflicted by the judge profits the sinner if he converts, as expiation for his crime; and if he does not convert, it profits him by putting an end to his sin, because the sinner is thus deprived of the power to sin more.

Reply to objection 3: Such like imprecations that we come across in the Holy Scripture may be understood in three ways: First, by way of prediction, not by way of wish, so that the sense is: "The wicked shall be turned into Hell."
Second, by way of wish, so that the wisher�s desire refers not to the punishment the man receives, but to the justice of the punisher, according to Psalm 58:11: "The just shall rejoice when he shall see revenge." For according to the Book of Wisdom (1:13), not even God "delights in the perdition of the wicked" when He punishes them, but He rejoices in His justice, according to the Psalm (11:7): "The Lord is righteous and He loves righteousness."
Third, so that this desire refers to the removal of the guilt, not of the chastisement, [11] in such a way that the sin be destroyed, but the man may live.

Reply to objection 4: We love sinners out of charity not so as to desire what they desire and to rejoice in what gives them joy, but so as to make them desire what we desire and rejoice in what makes us rejoice. [12] Hence it is written (Jer 15:19): "Let them convert unto you; but you shall not convert unto them."

Reply to objection 5: The weak should avoid communicating with sinners on account of the danger of being perverted by them. But it is commendable for the perfect, [13] whose fall is not to be feared, to communicate with sinners in order to convert them. Thus, the Lord ate and drank with sinners as reported in Matthew 9:11-13. Yet all should avoid the society of sinners when it means participation in sin. Thus it is written (2 Cor 6:17): "Go away from among them and touch not the unclear thing," that is, what is in accordance with sin. [14]

Cantarella · « **Reply #5 on:** December 02, 2014, 11:42:02 AM »

Quote from: Nado

Rashly and publicly accusing your neighbor of bad-will is a serious offense against charity. The Saints did not do that.

There are many saints who were relentless against Heretics and Schismatics. Read st. Jerome. What is important is not to lose a genuine love and zeal for souls and the hope that sinners can be converted.

Dolores · « **Reply #6 on:** December 02, 2014, 12:07:04 PM »

Quote from: St. Matthew 5:43-48

You have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thy enemy. But I say to you, Love your enemies: do good to them that hate you: and pray for them that persecute and calumniate you: That you may be the children of your Father who is in heaven, who maketh his sun to rise upon the good, and bad, and raineth upon the just and the unjust. For if you love them that love you, what reward shall you have? do not even the publicans this? And if you salute your brethren only, what do you more? do not also the heathens this? Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect.

claudel · « **Reply #7 on:** December 02, 2014, 12:23:43 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

Only the devils in hell can be hated by a Catholic wishing to maintain the State of Grace in his soul.

I'm very uncomfortable with this statement. I am quite sure that it is entirely appropriate for American Catholics to hate the New York Yankees, who are certainly the spawn of Satan. Similarly, many devout Catholic Englishmen will not hesitate to tell you that they hate Manchester United.

confederate catholic · « **Reply #8 on:** December 02, 2014, 12:53:40 PM »

Quote

I am quite sure that it is entirely appropriate for American Catholics to hate the New York Yankees, who are certainly the spawn of Satan

however..........

Quote

Glory glory Man United
Glory glory Man United
Glory glory Man United
As the reds go marching on on on!

Just like the Busby days and days gone by
We’ll keep the red flags flying high
Your gonna see us all from far and wide
Your gonna hear the Mans that sing with pride

United, Man United
We’re the boys in red and we're on our way to Wemberly!

Wemberly, Wemberly
We're the famous Man united and we're going to Wemberly
Wemberly! Wemberly!
We're the famous Man united and we're going to Wemberly

Glory glory Man United
Glory glory Man United
As the reds go marching on on on!

Ladislaus · « **Reply #9 on:** December 02, 2014, 01:04:08 PM »

Quote from: claudel

Quote from: Matthew
Only the devils in hell can be hated by a Catholic wishing to maintain the State of Grace in his soul.

I'm very uncomfortable with this statement. I am quite sure that it is entirely appropriate for American Catholics to hate the New York Yankees, ...

No argument there. Matthew undoubtedly forgot about this one notable exception.

JezusDeKoning · « **Reply #10 on:** December 02, 2014, 01:14:59 PM »

I always try to hate only the actions of people and not the person.

Anthony Benedict · « **Reply #11 on:** December 02, 2014, 03:23:47 PM »

Okay, okay, I "get it."

I've lived my entire life "hearing about it." Going back to the days in the 1950s when I'd sit in front of the family 12" oval, B&W TV and charted, inning after inning, the exploits of Mickey, Yogi, Whitey, et al.

And I could not care less about converting anyone to the glorious life of Yankees fandom, either.

I am not blind to the human weaknesses involved, however. The A-Rod fiasco is deplorable and it was only after I read that George Steinbrenner drove himself out to Yogi's house, rung the bell and put out his hand to apologize when Yogi answered the door that I began to stop cursing and making oaths whenever the now-deceased owner's name was mentioned.

There are more reasons than grains of sand on all the beaches in the world to argue that baseball is one of the most absorbing, challenging sports ever invented.

And yes, my younger friends, it WAS much more interesting, fast paced and and tense, long ago, when Dizzy Dean did the TV announcing and fit in his commercial messages during a change of pitchers, during pitcher warm up tosses, during conferences on the mound. The games today take twice to three times as long to complete.

But I will say this, when it comes to pure evil on a baseball diamond, say what you will but THIS moment, involving one of the most beloved men in all of Major League Baseball history, the late Don Zimmer, will forever live in infamy.... (I don't hold the Sox team responsible. Martinez was a megalomaniacal asshat by any team's, or any sport's, standards.)

Nadir · « **Reply #12 on:** December 02, 2014, 03:40:39 PM »

Derailment!

insidebaseball · « **Reply #13 on:** December 02, 2014, 08:07:01 PM »

Ladislaus I think you nailed it. Perception always seem to be reality. My deceased N.O. uncle who attended my former Sede Chapel once said after attending said Chapel, " this isn't a church, its a club". I can see how an outsider might think that way about some Sede Chapels.

Croix de Fer · « **Reply #14 on:** December 06, 2014, 03:31:32 PM »

Just remember the Jєωs try to exploit the teachings of Jesus Christ, and conflate this theology (love your neighbor and pray for their souls) with their subterfuge of liberal humanistic apostasy and (false) tolerance. Their goal is to make Catholics passive ("love everyone and pray for them - do nothing else" ) by turning a blind eye to the moral rot of society and predation of the innocent, thereby effecting no resistance to Jєωry's manipulation and deception.