Author Topic: When Does the Pope Become Pope? (Read 1190 times)

Mithrandylan · « **on:** March 01, 2013, 10:22:19 PM »

While searching the web to find out when the conclave begins, I came across this article:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57571833/vatican-hints-at-start-date-for-papal-conclave/

In it, the writer says:

"The date of the conclave's start is important because Holy Week begins March 24, with Easter Sunday March 31. In order to have a new pope in place for the church's most solemn liturgical period, he would need to be installed by Sunday, March 17 -- a tight time frame if a conclave were to start March 15."

(keep reading for an interesting statement by Dolan)

Anyways, that raised two questions. One, why would the new pope need to be elected by the 17th in order to be pope for Holy Week? Is this author stoned? Or is there something in canon law (1917 or the new code) that says the pope has to wait a week after being elected to make a public appearance or perform a liturgy.... I couldn't imagine that being the case.

And then naturally from that, I'm wondering at what instance a pope becomes a pope. Is it the moment the conclave ends? Is there a particular ceremony where he is 'made' pope?

Thank you.

Sigismund · « **Reply #1 on:** March 01, 2013, 10:31:07 PM »

He becomes pope when he accepts the election. The only exception would be if the person elected was not a bishop. He would them become pope as soon as he was consecrated and accepted election. Installation is a formality. An important one, to be sure, but it does not make a pope.

Mithrandylan · « **Reply #2 on:** March 01, 2013, 10:34:11 PM »

Quote from: Sigismund

He becomes pope when he accepts the election. The only exception would be if the person elected was not a bishop. He would them become pope as soon as he was consecrated and accepted election. Installation is a formality. An important one, to be sure, but it does not make a pope.

That's basically what I thought. So then it's pretty much BS, that the next pope would have to accept his office by the 17th to be pope for Holy Week?

Sigismund · « **Reply #3 on:** March 01, 2013, 10:43:45 PM »

It is. It would be difficult to manage the installation by then, becasue it is quite an undertaking I would think, but we will have a pope by Holy Week unless the conclave goes seriously awry.

drivocek · « **Reply #4 on:** March 11, 2013, 10:38:22 AM »

A priest told me that the new pope would not become pope until he appears on the balcony to give his blessing. "The people elect the pope, he said."

I was flabbergasted.

Mithrandylan · « **Reply #5 on:** March 11, 2013, 10:44:35 AM »

Quote from: drivocek

A priest told me that the new pope would not become pope until he appears on the balcony to give his blessing. "The people elect the pope, he said."

I was flabbergasted.

You sure he was a priest? :p

drivocek · « **Reply #6 on:** March 13, 2013, 01:41:42 PM »

Quote from: Mithrandylan

Quote from: drivocek
A priest told me that the new pope would not become pope until he appears on the balcony to give his blessing. "The people elect the pope, he said."

I was flabbergasted.

You sure he was a priest? :p

Absolutely and one that you all know.

Christopher67 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 13, 2013, 01:54:51 PM »

Quote from: drivocek

Quote from: Mithrandylan
Quote from: drivocek
A priest told me that the new pope would not become pope until he appears on the balcony to give his blessing. "The people elect the pope, he said."

I was flabbergasted.

You sure he was a priest? :p

Absolutely and one that you all know.

You like to tell your stories about someone told you this...or someone told you that....who?

Sigismund · « **Reply #8 on:** March 13, 2013, 08:44:20 PM »

Quote from: drivocek

Quote from: Mithrandylan
Quote from: drivocek
A priest told me that the new pope would not become pope until he appears on the balcony to give his blessing. "The people elect the pope, he said."

I was flabbergasted.

You sure he was a priest? :p

Absolutely and one that you all know.

Well whoever he is, he is wrong.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #9 on:** March 14, 2013, 01:32:24 AM »

Quote from: Sigismund

Quote from: drivocek
Quote from: Mithrandylan
Quote from: drivocek
A priest told me that the new pope would not become pope until he appears on the balcony to give his blessing. "The people elect the pope, he said."

I was flabbergasted.

You sure he was a priest? :p

Absolutely and one that you all know.

Well whoever he is, he is wrong.

There are two principles at work here. One is the doctrine that the elected man
is pope the moment that he accepts the election, and he does this by
announcing the name he has chosen for his papacy. Of course, he must have
already been consecrated a bishop to be the bishop of Rome. It's possible for
a man who is not a bishop to be elected, in which case he would have to be
consecrated bishop first, then accept the papacy, to become pope. Or, if he
is not a priest, he would need to be ordained a priest first, then a bishop, then
accept the papacy. He could be a boy. Then he would have to be ordained a
priest, even though he's too young by normal standards, then consecrated a
bishop, then accept the papacy, but the boy could be pope, theoretically. How
could that happen? Who knows? But no woman, or girl, could ever be a valid
pope, or bishop, or priest.

The other principle is that the pope is confirmed pope by the acceptance of the
Catholics of the world.

Both of these principles have their place, but the latter is a bit more obscured
in our age when the election process is always in the Sistine Chapel with all
the available cardinals present, and a chimney to the roof that has either
black smoke (actually sort of grey) or white smoke coming out of it.

We could have a pope elected without the chimney, without the Chapel, and
without all the cardinals. And that would be much more definitive if the
election were accepted by the Catholics of the world.

What if this pope had walked out on the balcony and the crowd had booed him?

Don't laugh, because you can be pretty sure that's the reason they did not
elect Mahony or Bertone. The crowd could have been unwilling to accept
them, and then, the election would be in question. If the elected man is
not accepted by the people, he is not going to be able to show his face - and
what kind of a "pope" is that?

Have you ever wondered why he comes out on a balcony that is physically
too high for most able-bodied athletes to throw rotten eggs up there, or
tomatoes (they would break in the hands of the persons throwing them)?

Alternatively, there have been popes in the past who were elected
by popular acclaim. Now tell me how that is different from being
"accepted by the people?"

There is one thing that is essential, and that is, no man can become pope if
God does not allow it to happen. And the final "icing on the cake" or the
Holy Ghost's seal of approval consists in the new Pope presenting himself
to the vast crowd, wherever it is (it's usually the Bernini Square at St.
Peter's Basilica), and the crowd cheers approvingly.

Therefore, the Pope's election is actually done by the people, as odd as that
might seem. Because they have the power to say

NO!!

SJB · « **Reply #10 on:** March 14, 2013, 04:50:33 PM »

Quote from: drivocek

A priest told me that the new pope would not become pope until he appears on the balcony to give his blessing. "The people elect the pope, he said."

I was flabbergasted.

Here's some interesting observations from another forum:

Quote

Mr Bergoglio's first public words after his election seem to me to be extraordinarily clear and worthy of careful analysis.

Here is the text from :the Vatican site

Quote from: text from Vatican site
Brothers and sisters, good evening!

You know that it was the duty of the Conclave to give Rome a Bishop. It seems that my brother Cardinals have gone to the ends of the earth to get one... but here we are... I thank you for your welcome. The diocesan community of Rome now has its Bishop. Thank you! And first of all, I would like to offer a prayer for our Bishop Emeritus, Benedict XVI. Let us pray together for him, that the Lord may bless him and that Our Lady may keep him.

Our Father...

Hail Mary...

Glory Be...

And now, we take up this journey: Bishop and People. This journey of the Church of Rome which presides in charity over all the Churches. A journey of fraternity, of love, of trust among us. Let us always pray for one another. Let us pray for the whole world, that there may be a great spirit of fraternity. It is my hope for you that this journey of the Church, which we start today, and in which my Cardinal Vicar, here present, will assist me, will be fruitful for the evangelization of this most beautiful city.

And now I would like to give the blessing, but first - first I ask a favour of you: before the Bishop blesses his people, I ask you to pray to the Lord that he will bless me: the prayer of the people asking the blessing for their Bishop. Let us make, in silence, this prayer: your prayer over me.

[...]

Now I will give the Blessing to you and to the whole world, to all men and women of good will.

Brothers and sisters, I leave you now. Thank you for your welcome. Pray for me and until we meet again. We will see each other soon. Tomorrow I wish to go and pray to Our Lady, that she may watch over all of Rome. Good night and sleep well!

1. This layman doesn't even claim to be pope, teaching and governing the universal Church. He claims to be the bishop of the local Church of Rome to which he attributes a primacy of charity in a journey which we are all making together. The job he has accepted is to evangelize the beautiful city of Rome.

2. He is so filled with the spirit of 1789 that he cannot even bear the apparent superiority of giving a blessing without first getting himself "energised" by the people. They transmit to him the power to bless him.

3. He is not even interested in collegiality: he is interested in "the people".

4. He wants the whole world to become a great brotherhood with no mention of Our Lord Jesus Christ, or even of God, as the unifying principle thereof.

5. He harnesses the goodwill of the people towards Benedict, whom he again describes as their bishop, not as pope, notwithstanding the fact that St Peter's square is chockfull of flags and banners showing that pilgrims have come for the event from all over the world.

6. Whereas the cardinal dean (or whoever announces the habemus papam, I forget) is solemn and moved, Mr Bergoglio is informal to the point of chattiness, rejects the chant, makes a mess of reading the Latin, and having finished his brief address, instead of taking the papal limousine, hops back into the minibus to spend the night with the other electors.

As has been pointed out, the awkward point about this guy is that, unlike Ratzinger, he is not even interested in doctrine and therefore might successfully avoid making any heretical pronouncements.

And of course Ratzinger knew, from the previous conclave, that Mr Bergoglio, who clearly has very different convictions and tastes, was likely to be his successor and could have avoided it by naming as "cardinals" only men of Ratzingerian views; but he did not.