Author Topic: What to think of Rorate Coeli? (Read 1661 times)

stevusmagnus · « **on:** June 27, 2009, 06:13:16 PM »

What is your opinion on Rorate Coeli blogspot?

I've seen prodinoscopos on there, as well as others, fighting the good fight, but the Neo-Trad commentary, especially from Jordannes, is tough to have to sift through to get to the intelligent thought. He, and others who comment there, seem to be blinded to the true causes of the crisis and are living in a parallel universe. The Neo-Trads seem to want to be "Traditional", but yet deconstruct Tradition with every post. I suppose this is what we can expect from the FSSP types? Is that what Rorate Coeli is?

I enjoy getting up to the minute SSPX development news from them, but I must say a lot of the commentary is annoying. Also annoying is that they listed various quotations from the VCII saint, Josemaria Escriva, but failed to note that while he was saying the TLM himself he had his entire order of priests saying the New Mass in order to be "approved". Thus the key distinction between him and ABL.

How can RC honor all of Fr. Escriva's quotations on the Mass, saying that they apply to the TLM, since he said it. But not point out the fact that he had absolutely no problem with his entire order of priests abandoning the TLM and saying the New mass in perpetuity?

This has always been my problem with a lot of FSSP types. I wouldn't go so far as to say they are Neo-Trads, but a lot of them have the tendency to be completely silent when it comes to due criticism of Post-Conciliar actions and icons. Indeed the price of "approval" I suppose. Cast my lot with the Society, who is not afraid to speak the truth in season and out of season.

DeMaistre · « **Reply #1 on:** June 27, 2009, 11:46:28 PM »

Avoid these type of blogs. They give you no spiritual reward, so why waste your time? A load of fun a lot of Catholics are going to have in Hell debating about the FSSPX.

Raoul76 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 28, 2009, 12:27:49 AM »

DeMaistre -- STAY OFF THE MICHAEL DIMOND WEBSITE.

You're beginning to sound just like them. Condemning everyone to hell. Don't go down that road. Leave it to God.

DeMaistre · « **Reply #3 on:** June 28, 2009, 12:40:19 AM »

Quote from: Raoul76

DeMaistre -- STAY OFF THE MICHAEL DIMOND WEBSITE.

Why?

Quote

You're beginning to sound just like them. Condemning everyone to hell. Don't go down that road. Leave it to God.

No, I'm just stating the fact that a whole lot of "trads" will be in Hell, and then what good will Fisheaters and Rorate Coeli do them?

DeMaistre · « **Reply #4 on:** June 28, 2009, 12:42:10 AM »

And no, I don't condemn anyone. I think that under the current circuмstances in this crisis, there is good hope that even an ignorant Novus Ordo-ite may be saved. If anyone on this forum is going to Hell, its me.

Caminus · « **Reply #5 on:** June 28, 2009, 01:59:14 AM »

Hi Steve. :dancing:

Prodinoscopus · « **Reply #6 on:** June 28, 2009, 08:37:19 AM »

Quote from: DeMaistre

No, I'm just stating the fact that a whole lot of "trads" will be in Hell, and then what good will Fisheaters and Rorate Coeli do them?

For that matter, DeMaistre, what good will CathInfo do them / us? No offense to Matthew, who runs a very good discussion board, nor to any of the individual members here. I'm just making a general comment about investing huge amounts of time in debate and diatribe around "Traditionalist" issues. I speak from all-too-personal experience. Not only is my per day post output the highest on this board (although I've been here only a few weeks), I've also been a prolific contributor at Rorate, Fisheaters, and AQ (under other aliases besides "Prodinoscopus").

Perhaps I should apply the observation only to myself, and let others apply it to themselves as their own situations warrant. The truth is that I need to stop pretending to be something that I'm not, i.e., a "Traddie" warrior who's doing something of significance to combat the evils of Vatican II.

Let's face it, my presence on this board is a sham. In case my signature line wasn't a clear enough clue, I don't attend a SSPX chapel, nor even FSSP. I'm chained to the "worship of Baal", as Bishop Williamson calls it. The fact of the matter is that my intransigence on Traditional Catholic matters has done more to bring discord and rupture to my marriage than my past addiction to pornography. My wife is a "Conciliar" Catholic (although she doesn't think of it in such intellectual terms) and she is not likely ever to change. This much is for sure: she's not going to change by me browbeating her about how much I can't stand the New Mass or how much I detest the New Theology. I cannot tell you about all the horrific fights that our children have had to witness over this issue.

Let me tell you something, an addiction to Traddie boards and blogs is not unlike an addiction to online porn, insofar as a) once you're in, it's almost impossible to get out, and b) it's always just a keystroke away. The comparison ends there, of course, because there is nothing intrinsically evil about discussing Catholic issues. However, there is something evil about persisting in activities that contribute to the ruin of your marriage -- even if those activities are essentially good in themselves. If I played golf so much that my wife began to see herself as a "golf widow", thus neglecting my duties of state, that would be sinful.

I'm not telling anyone else what to do. I'm just saying that if you don't see much of "Prodinoscopus" here or at Rorate in the the future, you'll know why.

By the way, Steve and Caminus, you might remember me as "Confiteor" at Fisheaters. How's ol' McMaster doing?

:cheers:

Cheers, everyone.

DeMaistre · « **Reply #7 on:** June 28, 2009, 03:19:27 PM »

I'll relate my own story. I posted on Fisheaters for well over 2,000 posts under the username Rex_Tremendae. Most of my post was just garbage debating about the SSPX or frivolous non-spiritual things. I'm ashamed of them. I deleted my account and made another one, just posting articles from my blog. I was banned within one day. Its utterly ridiculous.

Quote

For that matter, DeMaistre, what good will CathInfo do them / us? No offense to Matthew, who runs a very good discussion board, nor to any of the individual members here. I'm just making a general comment about investing huge amounts of time in debate and diatribe around "Traditionalist" issues. I speak from all-too-personal experience. Not only is my per day post output the highest on this board (although I've been here only a few weeks), I've also been a prolific contributor at Rorate, Fisheaters, and AQ (under other aliases besides "Prodinoscopus").

None really, I just used Fisheaters and Rorate Coeli as an example. I've considered just leaving this forum and just posting on my blog.

Quote

Perhaps I should apply the observation only to myself, and let others apply it to themselves as their own situations warrant. The truth is that I need to stop pretending to be something that I'm not, i.e., a "Traddie" warrior who's doing something of significance to combat the evils of Vatican II.

That sounds a lot like myself as well.

Quote

Let's face it, my presence on this board is a sham. In case my signature line wasn't a clear enough clue, I don't attend a SSPX chapel, nor even FSSP. I'm chained to the "worship of Baal", as Bishop Williamson calls it. The fact of the matter is that my intransigence on Traditional Catholic matters has done more to bring discord and rupture to my marriage than my past addiction to pornography. My wife is a "Conciliar" Catholic (although she doesn't think of it in such intellectual terms) and she is not likely ever to change. This much is for sure: she's not going to change by me browbeating her about how much I can't stand the New Mass or how much I detest the New Theology. I cannot tell you about all the horrific fights that our children have had to witness over this issue.

Well, you love her don't you? Apologetics have never converted anyone alone. Get on with your prayers! :smile:

DeMaistre · « **Reply #8 on:** June 28, 2009, 03:25:18 PM »

I'll relate my own story. I posted on Fisheaters for well over 2,000 posts under the username Rex_Tremendae. Most of my post was just garbage debating about the SSPX or frivolous non-spiritual things. I'm ashamed of them. I deleted my account and made another one, just posting articles from my blog. I was banned within one day. Its utterly ridiculous.

----------------

What I meant by that is, a lot of the people that like to debate things like the SSPX don't even care about actually being Catholic. Its all about what building they show up at on Sunday, or how respected they are on the forums.

spouse of Jesus · « **Reply #9 on:** June 28, 2009, 03:39:33 PM »

Quote from: Prodinoscopus

Quote from: DeMaistre
No, I'm just stating the fact that a whole lot of "trads" will be in Hell, and then what good will Fisheaters and Rorate Coeli do them?

For that matter, DeMaistre, what good will CathInfo do them / us? No offense to Matthew, who runs a very good discussion board, nor to any of the individual members here. I'm just making a general comment about investing huge amounts of time in debate and diatribe around "Traditionalist" issues. I speak from all-too-personal experience. Not only is my per day post output the highest on this board (although I've been here only a few weeks), I've also been a prolific contributor at Rorate, Fisheaters, and AQ (under other aliases besides "Prodinoscopus").

Perhaps I should apply the observation only to myself, and let others apply it to themselves as their own situations warrant. The truth is that I need to stop pretending to be something that I'm not, i.e., a "Traddie" warrior who's doing something of significance to combat the evils of Vatican II.

Let's face it, my presence on this board is a sham. In case my signature line wasn't a clear enough clue, I don't attend a SSPX chapel, nor even FSSP. I'm chained to the "worship of Baal", as Bishop Williamson calls it. The fact of the matter is that my intransigence on Traditional Catholic matters has done more to bring discord and rupture to my marriage than my past addiction to pornography. My wife is a "Conciliar" Catholic (although she doesn't think of it in such intellectual terms) and she is not likely ever to change. This much is for sure: she's not going to change by me browbeating her about how much I can't stand the New Mass or how much I detest the New Theology. I cannot tell you about all the horrific fights that our children have had to witness over this issue.

Let me tell you something, an addiction to Traddie boards and blogs is not unlike an addiction to online porn, insofar as a) once you're in, it's almost impossible to get out, and b) it's always just a keystroke away. The comparison ends there, of course, because there is nothing intrinsically evil about discussing Catholic issues. However, there is something evil about persisting in activities that contribute to the ruin of your marriage -- even if those activities are essentially good in themselves. If I played golf so much that my wife began to see herself as a "golf widow", thus neglecting my duties of state, that would be sinful.

I'm not telling anyone else what to do. I'm just saying that if you don't see much of "Prodinoscopus" here or at Rorate in the the future, you'll know why.

By the way, Steve and Caminus, you might remember me as "Confiteor" at Fisheaters. How's ol' McMaster doing?

:cheers:

Cheers, everyone.

I am sorry to hear that. To fight with your wife doesn't seem to be a catholic thing, and has a very bad effect on your children's faith. They may leave what causes discord between their parents, in favor of a false religion that might give them some peace. Remember that after heaven, nothing can melt and soften heart of a women like her husband's kindness. If many people can make their spouses apostate by just showing them some (putrid)love, why can't you make her attracted to tradition by your (sacramental) love?

spouse of Jesus · « **Reply #10 on:** June 28, 2009, 03:50:23 PM »

It seems that some Trads have forgotten the duty of the church to sanctify. It is all quarreling, fighting and arguing in these forums without any regard to prayer, fasting and mortification. You name it being warriors for Christ, while all you do is to tear the Body of Christ assunder by constantly fighting with one another.
You have forgotten the whole spiritual treasury of the Catholic Church. How many of Trads actually know about works of Saint Teresa? how much do they speak about the saints' piety and devotion? And yet, if you search for Bp. Williamson's name, you will find a thousand search results. The name of Bp. Fellay is more frequently used than that of our Lord!
Again, I meant no insult to sincere trads.

DeMaistre · « **Reply #11 on:** June 28, 2009, 04:25:08 PM »

Quote from: spouse of Jesus

It seems that some Trads have forgotten the duty of the church to sanctify. It is all quarreling, fighting and arguing in these forums without any regard to prayer, fasting and mortification. You name it being warriors for Christ, while all you do is to tear the Body of Christ assunder by constantly fighting with one another.
You have forgotten the whole spiritual treasury of the Catholic Church. How many of Trads actually know about works of Saint Teresa? how much do they speak about the saints' piety and devotion? And yet, if you search for Bp. Williamson's name, you will find a thousand search results. The name of Bp. Fellay is more frequently used than that of our Lord!
Again, I meant no insult to sincere trads.

Spot on!

Its also telling how Angelus Press sells mainly books defending their position and only a few on the lives of the Saints, etc.

Prodinoscopus · « **Reply #12 on:** June 28, 2009, 05:38:11 PM »

Spouse of Jesus, you are absolutely right. The love that I show my wife tends to decrease in direct proportion to the amount of time and energy that I spend on Trad blogs and forums. Don't take my word for it -- ask her! Of course, Catholic Martyr will probably recommend that I separate from my wife, since she is not really "Catholic". Tough life decisions and all that. Right, CM?

Well, this shouldn't be about blaming CM, Trad forums, or anyone else but myself. The fault is mine, all mine, and it is grievous.

I think that I'm about done here. If I stay, my comments will be few and very carefully measured.

Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the Church, and delivered Himself up for her ... (Eph 5:25)

Someone needs to brand that verse on my forehead, eh?

Caraffa · « **Reply #13 on:** June 28, 2009, 08:58:47 PM »

Quote from: stevusmagnus

What is your opinion on Rorate Coeli blogspot?

I've seen prodinoscopos on there, as well as others, fighting the good fight, but the Neo-Trad commentary, especially from Jordannes, is tough to have to sift through to get to the intelligent thought. He, and others who comment there, seem to be blinded to the true causes of the crisis and are living in a parallel universe. The Neo-Trads seem to want to be "Traditional", but yet deconstruct Tradition with every post. I suppose this is what we can expect from the FSSP types? Is that what Rorate Coeli is?

I enjoy getting up to the minute SSPX development news from them, but I must say a lot of the commentary is annoying. Also annoying is that they listed various quotations from the VCII saint, Josemaria Escriva, but failed to note that while he was saying the TLM himself he had his entire order of priests saying the New Mass in order to be "approved". Thus the key distinction between him and ABL.

How can RC honor all of Fr. Escriva's quotations on the Mass, saying that they apply to the TLM, since he said it. But not point out the fact that he had absolutely no problem with his entire order of priests abandoning the TLM and saying the New mass in perpetuity?

This has always been my problem with a lot of FSSP types. I wouldn't go so far as to say they are Neo-Trads, but a lot of them have the tendency to be completely silent when it comes to due criticism of Post-Conciliar actions and icons. Indeed the price of "approval" I suppose. Cast my lot with the Society, who is not afraid to speak the truth in season and out of season.

The problem with Rorate Caeli is that they like the NLM types are only into restoring the liturgy and don't want to talk about doctrinal, theological, or cultural issues.(A form of pietism if you will. Pietism's "Catholic" ally-Jansenism) The mass is part of the faith, but it itself is not the faith. A lot of the Neo-trad types will tell you that they came to tradition and were "converted by the mass," but I like someone else did on RC a few months ago question how deep and true that conversion is. The Neo-trads are thus basing conversions by feelings and experience-such a notion is incredibly dangerous if not checked. Therefore it doesn't really surprise me that many of TLM newcomers are from "charasmatic Catholic" backgrounds. Some are sincere, but many are not.

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #14 on:** June 28, 2009, 10:45:05 PM »

Hi Caminus, good to see you again. I hope you are doing well.

Rex and pro, good to see you two again as well.

Let me just say it is a blessing we are all off of Fish Eaters. Tragically, the site stands as a public scandal to the Traditional movement due to the irregular situation of the site-owners which has been discussed at length already. Rex, forgive me, but I had to laugh at your comment on your banning as it is so typical of the illogical "bans" dolled out there over the years. Those who stick up for the Truth are always on a limited life span there. In fact it is almost a badge of orthodoxy to get banned from there. I'm sure Caminus would agree.

It's only a matter of time before Telemaque and Columba are canned as well.

As for Rorate Caeli, I think there are enough good comments there to balance the bad for now, but then again, I basically stopped reading the comments and only skim the headlines for important news. I just thought I'd see the general consensus of the board towards their commentary. I know pro had personal experience there.

As for pro and De Maistre's comments, a few thoughts.

First, areas where I agree.

I agree we must watch our time online, especially when we are married so as not to interfere with our duties of state. I also agree that our spiritual lives should be most important including sticking to good resolutions (Mass, confession, spiritual reading, rosary, etc.) and attending to our duties. Any time we have discussions, especially with loved ones about the faith it has to be done in charity and with a lot of patience. The best way to show a Novus Ordite that Tradition is the way is to show how Tradition improves our virtues and progress in the spiritual lives. But then we must be ready to answer their questions about the faith as well. Perhaps instead of railing on the NO in front of the kids and wife, one could basically get the same message across in a tone of pity. sorrow for these people because they don't realize the true purpose and meaning of the Mass and are missing out? Just an idea. Because after all, the ones truly getting hurt from the NO Mass are the attendees, not us, for the most part.

A couple of areas of mild disagreement. I think that defense of Tradition online is a laudable goal and spreading good information to counteract all of the misinformation out there is a good thing and a service all of us provide by posting on these sites and blogs. I think spiritual life comes first and then good apologetic fruits can come from this.

In addition, I don't think the characterization of Angelus Press is fair. Angelus Press basically has the weight of the Traditional world on their shoulders and that of the Society to get a defense out there through books. So it is expected that a large part of their apostolate is to defend the Society's position from constant attack and to constantly make the case of Tradition against the New Theology.

That said, Angelus does indeed print a good number of books on spirituality [0]=1&searchcat[2][1]=51]Angelus Press Spirituality Section

But you have to keep in mind that TAN and a lot of other printing houses already print the Spiritual Classics. Conservative NO publishers do as well.

In any case, Godspeed to you all!