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Author Topic: What of the Faithful NOers  (Read 1513 times)

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Offline Timothy

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What of the Faithful NOers
« on: September 20, 2013, 03:47:41 PM »
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  • What do you think becomes of the faithful NOers?  By "faithful" I mean those few who attend NO Mass every Sunday, go to NO Confession, do not use birth control, believe in the Real Presence, fast on the required days, etc.


    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    What of the Faithful NOers
    « Reply #1 on: September 20, 2013, 03:50:24 PM »
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  • What about them?


    Offline 2Vermont

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    What of the Faithful NOers
    « Reply #2 on: September 20, 2013, 03:51:36 PM »
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  • Yeah, I'm confused by the question.
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Timothy

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    What of the Faithful NOers
    « Reply #3 on: September 20, 2013, 03:51:53 PM »
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  • Quote from: Capt McQuigg
    What about them?


    Do you believe they can/will be saved?

    I suppose much depends on whether one believes the NO Sacraments to be valid.

    Offline bg2

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    What of the Faithful NOers
    « Reply #4 on: September 20, 2013, 03:57:08 PM »
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  • Quote from: Timothy
    What do you think becomes of the faithful NOers?  By "faithful" I mean those few who attend NO Mass every Sunday, go to NO Confession, do not use birth control, believe in the Real Presence, fast on the required days, etc.


    Some of them are genuinely good people who are simply trying to do the right thing as best they know how. I doubt that God will judge them too harshly, given the diabolical disorientation of today. Of course, I also believe that NO sacraments are valid (at least most of the time). I would assume most sedes wouldn't agree with my opinion. But, God won't judge them based on any of our opinions....


    Offline MyrnaM

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    What of the Faithful NOers
    « Reply #5 on: September 20, 2013, 05:06:39 PM »
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  • If they keep the Faith, God will show His mercy, however if they lost the Faith even one doctrine God will be just.  
    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

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    Offline Emitte Lucem Tuam

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    What of the Faithful NOers
    « Reply #6 on: September 20, 2013, 06:52:55 PM »
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  • What about faithful Methodists? Faithful Lutherans?  Faithful Congregationalists?  
    You can ask the same questions about "faithful" Protestants when asking about whether those who are "faithful" in the Novus Ordo Church will be saved.  
    Will they be saved?   :scratchchin:  
    For obstinate Novus Ordoites and obstinate Protestants, probably not.
    But only God knows this.  We must work towards our OWN salvation, with fear and trembling.  Don't fret about Novus Ordoites.  Pray for them, yes, but leave their salvation to God.  :pray:

    Offline Matto

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    What of the Faithful NOers
    « Reply #7 on: September 20, 2013, 06:54:50 PM »
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  • I do not think the Novus Ordo sacraments are usually valid because I doubt that most of the Novus Ordo priests and bishops are truly priests and bishops. So I would put them in the same boat as protestants. If they are of good will, God may reward them with the grace of perfect contrition and they will be saved.
    R.I.P.
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    Offline TKGS

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    What of the Faithful NOers
    « Reply #8 on: September 20, 2013, 07:45:49 PM »
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  • To the extent that they hold and keep the Catholic faith, they can be saved.  If they succuмb to the heresies taught by the Novus Ordo, they will be damned.

    It is a fact that there are faithful Catholics who are still trapped in the Novus Ordo.  But they are faithful to the Catholic faith because the true Faith cannot be completely hidden.  They can still read the books of the Catholic Church and still learn the truths of the Catholic Church.  

    Emitte Lucem Tuam asked about "faithful Methodists, faithful Lutherans, faithful Congregationalists".  These are in a different situation as they do not seek truth in the pre-Vatican II books and traditions that even Novus Ordo people are aware of and, the faithful ones anyway, pursue, read, and love.

    These Protestants are also not likely to be praying the Rosary much either.

    By insisting to pretend to be Catholic, the Novus Ordo cannot shut the door on the Catholic faith as the Protestants can.

    Offline mikemac

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    What of the Faithful NOers
    « Reply #9 on: September 21, 2013, 12:46:55 AM »
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  • Quote from: Timothy
    What do you think becomes of the faithful NOers?  By "faithful" I mean those few who attend NO Mass every Sunday, go to NO Confession, do not use birth control, believe in the Real Presence, fast on the required days, etc.


    First off I believe that there are a lot more than a few faithful Catholics that attend the Novus Ordo Mass.  In fact I know there are.  Consider the Latin Mass is still only available in one parish in some dioceses.  It takes about 4 hours to drive from the south end of the diocese that I am in to the north end.  So it would take about 3 1/2 hours for Catholics that live in the north end of our diocese to get to a Latin Mass.  And then the Latin Mass is just offered on the first and last Sundays of each month.  There are still a pile of faithful Catholics that do not have access to a Latin Mass.

    Now consider all those faithful obedient Catholics that didn't have any access to a Tridentine Mass for decades before Pope Benedict allowed it.  The bishops lied to them when they said the Latin Mass was abrogated.  My parents and your parents.  Well my parents anyway, I don't know if you are a convert or not.  So I'll ask you.  What do you think becomes of those faithful "NOers"?

    We hear about clown masses and other liturgical abuses.  But I can tell you that I have never been to a Novus Ordo Mass that I didn't think was valid.  Personally I have more concern for what becomes of sedes than I do faithful "NOers".      

    Offline MyrnaM

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    What of the Faithful NOers
    « Reply #10 on: September 21, 2013, 08:53:27 AM »
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  • mikemac


    Quote
    First Vatican Council infallibly teaches: “‘Thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build My Church,’ these words are proven true by actual results, since in the Apostolic See the Catholic religion has always been preserved untainted...the See of St. Peter always remains unimpaired by any error, according to the divine promise of Our Lord.” And since these “popes” have manifestly taught heresy, promoted ecuмenism and fostered interfaith worship, they clearly cannot be recognized as a successor of St. Peter in the primacy. - See more at: http://www.cmri.org/sedevacantist-position.shtml#sthash.OwuMKU9Q.dpuf
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    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    What of the Faithful NOers
    « Reply #11 on: September 21, 2013, 09:06:01 AM »
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  • We should try to convert all including Novus ordo, Jєωs and Muslims like St Francis of Assisi.
    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline Stubborn

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    What of the Faithful NOers
    « Reply #12 on: September 21, 2013, 09:17:14 AM »
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  • From Who Shall Ascend?:

    ........the Conciliar Church has undertaken to destroy the cultic aspect of Catholic life. We mean, because the life of the Church is lived and the faith of its people is expressed and exercised in and through the Sacred Liturgy, here has been the main point of attack. Because the Mass and the Sacraments have been corrupted - subjects we shall discuss presently - all supernatural life has been lost. Consequently, there is no salvation within the Conciliar Church. (Intra Ecclesiam Conciliam Nulla Sallus)

    .......It is impossible to practice the Faith within the Conciliar Church.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Timothy

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    What of the Faithful NOers
    « Reply #13 on: September 21, 2013, 11:13:36 AM »
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  • So, clearly there is no consensus on this issue among CI posters.  Opinions range from "the NO Sacraments are likely valid, and Salvation is possible" to "the NO church is a different religion, and because there is no Salvation outside the Church, NOers cannot be saved."

    Is there any consensus among the SSPX bishops and priests?  Do the Resistance priests think differently?  Or is it just a sign of the crisis we are in, and no one can truly have the answer?

    Offline Solidus

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    What of the Faithful NOers
    « Reply #14 on: September 21, 2013, 12:21:24 PM »
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  • The majority of SVs in the anglo-sphere are gonna say no because they have strong emotional - if not traumatic - experiences with the worst of the worst in the "church of the new advent". There are still good dioceses out there who pray reverently, and, because of the reverence, the parishioners don't really know or care about the doctrinal ambiguities/changes of Vatican II, they just pray and live like their families have for generations, they don't pretend to be experts in everything about canon law/liturgy/theology/culture/politics/running a parish/philosophy/etc. like the modernist and, in some bizarre twist, many traditional Catholics with a keyboard. I should note that these good dioceses are slowly disappearing with increased globalization and digitization.

    All that being said, if those NOers are in a state of grace, then yes they will get to heaven. It is much less likely in a place like the USA/Canada/Australia/etc., where parish life will likely kill your faith or the faith of your children (I literally know thousands who've apostatized in Catholic schools). At the same time I know many NO Poles/Filipinos/Tamils who pray the rosary everyday, go to Mass every Sunday and First Friday, observe the First Saturday devotions, wear a brown scapular, etc.

    I think the majority of people who doubt the validity of the NO sacraments are having a sensory/emotional reaction. They didn't grow up in NO parishes where everyone took communion on the tongue, and where many even kneeled, and where the priest preached about the four last things, preached about social issues (against sodomite marriage, etc.), where traditional hymns were sung, and where the boy/girl scouts were forced to observe the 12 hours fast and march almost 5k to a 1.5 hour Mass in a forest, etc. etc.

    Honestly, if I grew up in one of those American parishes with altar girls, communion in the hand, fag priests, wreckovated churches, and all that other stuff, I'd probably doubt or deny the validity of the NO sacraments. Outside of having horrible/hypocritical parents, there is nothing more psychologically damaging to a child than a bad religion. The worst atheist/liberals I know grew up in the stereotypical Novus Ordo parish. 95% of Novus Ordo parishes have the same effect on people as hypocritical parent(s), the Church teaches one thing (sodomy is bad, etc.) but then you get a fag priest celebrating a secular/effeminate liturgy at your parish. That's asking for trouble.

    To sum everything up: I think NO Catholics in valid NO parishes will be saved if they're in a state of grace. The majority of diocese, especially in the anglo-sphere, even if they have validity (doubtful in some cases), serve to kill the faith rather than nurture it, so you will most likely lose the faith attending such places.