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Author Topic: What isare the problem(s) with Divine Mercy?  (Read 2499 times)

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Offline Iuvenalis

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What isare the problem(s) with Divine Mercy?
« on: January 23, 2015, 03:41:38 AM »
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  • I've never understood in detail what the 'issues'  are with Divine Mercy.

    Trads generally and here on CI specifically there's no shortage of folks that find Divine Mercy problematic at best and seemingly diabolical at worst, but I've never picked up on what the problem(s) were.

    Pius XII found no error(s) with Divine Mercy, no? He is hardly Paul VI or JXXIII

    Can someone provide a web link or a link here on CI that *explains* the situation/issues?


    Offline Stubborn

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    What isare the problem(s) with Divine Mercy?
    « Reply #1 on: January 23, 2015, 06:50:20 AM »
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  • The Angelus

    June 2010


    Condemned by the Holy Office

    There were two decrees from Rome on this question, both of the time of Pope John XXIII. The Supreme Congregation of the Holy Office, in a plenary meeting held on November 19, 1958, made the following decisions:

    The supernatural nature of the revelations made to Sister Faustina is not evident.
    No feast of Divine Mercy is to be instituted.
    It is forbidden to divulge images and writings that propagate this devotion under the form received by Sister Faustina.

     

    The second decree of the Holy Office was on March 6, 1959, in which the following was established:

    The diffusion of images and writings promoting the devotion to Divine Mercy under the form proposed by the same Sister Faustina was forbidden.
    The prudence of the bishops is to judge as to the removal of the aforesaid images that are already displayed for public honor.


    What was it about this devotion that prevented the Holy Office from acknowledging its divine origin? The decrees do not say, but it seems that the reason lies in the fact that there is so much emphasis on God’s mercy as to exclude His justice. Our sins and the gravity of the offense that they inflict on God is pushed aside as being of little consequence. That is why the aspect of reparation for sin is omitted or obscured.

    Link to read more

    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline Ladislaus

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    What isare the problem(s) with Divine Mercy?
    « Reply #2 on: January 23, 2015, 02:52:10 PM »
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  • Do a Google search for the following phrase:

    most holy family divine mercy monastery

    I can't link directly because Matthew purges links to their website.

    Offline Matto

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    What isare the problem(s) with Divine Mercy?
    « Reply #3 on: January 23, 2015, 03:21:49 PM »
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  • After reading about the problems with the Divine Mercy devotion from numerous traditional Catholic sources, including the Dimonds and the SSPX (in an article I just searched for but could not find), I came to the conclusion that it would be best to stay away from the devotion. I even confessed praying the Divine Mercy devotion as a sin (at the same time I also confessed praying the Luminous Mysteries as a sin).
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.

    Offline Miseremini

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    What isare the problem(s) with Divine Mercy?
    « Reply #4 on: January 23, 2015, 04:46:23 PM »
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  • Quote from: Nado
    Pius XII was asked in the 1940's to suppress it, and he refused to. It wasn't until after Pius XII died that it was suppressed under John XXIII and twice suppressed within his first year acting as pope.

    Years later, the Novus Ordo unsuppressed it.

    Knowing how the Novus Ordo messes things up so badly, I am suspending judgment on the alleged problems with it, until I find an authentic translation from the Polish that wasn't tampered with by the Novus Ordo.


    I believe Pius XII did put Divine Mercy on the index.  Father Peter Scott wrote extensively on the subject.  Angelous carried the full article as "Stubborn" posted above.
    Also a good article  http://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/f072_DivMercy.htm
    taken from Father Scotts writings.
    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]



    Offline Petertherock

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    What isare the problem(s) with Divine Mercy?
    « Reply #5 on: January 24, 2015, 07:45:18 AM »
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  • Quote from: Matto
    After reading about the problems with the Divine Mercy devotion from numerous traditional Catholic sources, including the Dimonds and the SSPX (in an article I just searched for but could not find), I came to the conclusion that it would be best to stay away from the devotion. I even confessed praying the Divine Mercy devotion as a sin (at the same time I also confessed praying the Luminous Mysteries as a sin).


    Neither one is a sin. I don't pray either of them but it's not a sin. The Luminous Mysteries are fine as a private devotion and are optional, but they aren't part of the Rosary. The Divine Mercy devotion is also not a sin. The Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary in Still River, MA pray that devotion.


    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    What isare the problem(s) with Divine Mercy?
    « Reply #6 on: January 24, 2015, 08:14:42 AM »
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  • I think it depends on how you view the Novus Ordo Church. If you think of it as a non-Catholic sect, then coming to Tradition, you might've thought that praying the Divine Mercy and Luminous Mysteries were communicatio in sacris, and therefore a sin.
    Remember O most gracious Virgin Mary...

    Offline poche

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    What isare the problem(s) with Divine Mercy?
    « Reply #7 on: January 24, 2015, 10:20:41 PM »
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  • I am very much in need of Divine Mercy. I pray for God's mercy every day.


    Offline Croix de Fer

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    What isare the problem(s) with Divine Mercy?
    « Reply #8 on: January 25, 2015, 12:53:40 AM »
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  • Quote from: Iuvenalis
    I've never understood in detail what the 'issues'  are with Divine Mercy. [...]


    From another forum to which I responded:

    Quote from: John Doe
    If Saint Faustyna, was truly from the devil as you believe it to be, then how stupid of the devil, because so many souls have been touched through this Saint and Act of Mercy. So many miracles and true conversions have come about, such as my own.


    My response:
    Quote from: (ascent)
    Satan is the master war monger, tactician and deceiver. He will gladly lose many battles that, unbeknownst to people, ultimately yield him more souls being lost, effectively making him the victor of more battles than he would have won had he not employed such tactics, despite the fact that he has already lost the *war* because of Christ's Divine Sacrifice. "Divine Mercy" could be a lie mixed with many truths, using such lies to trick and deceive people into rejecting both the true teachings of Christ and the Catholicity of the Faith, ultimately leading their souls to perdition. Your personal testimony of conversion is an example of the Lord's goodness and grace, which He bestowed upon you in the event of such deception. We know God does not cause evil, but He will, at times, use evil to bring about His holy plan for His children who seek, love and serve Him, but the fact remains people's souls are still in danger if they remain in such deception.

    There are disturbing events in Faustina's testimony, such as the "Host jumping out of the Tabernacle and landing in my (Faustyna's) hands (3 times)"; and her quoted as saying, "I heard these words from the host: 'I desired to rest in your hands, not only in your heart.' ” .... among many other disturbing events.

    The "DM" also seems to imply that despite moral relativism, Christ's mercy will still save everyone. This is diametrically opposed to what Christ and the early Church fathers taught us, which is ONLY through being Baptized into Christ, and accepting Christ as Lord and Savior, and adhering to His teachings, can we be saved. "DM" was the prelude to Holy Communion being placed in the hands of faithful, which is very irreverent, sacrilegious and against the practices of the early Church, and it has led many to NOT believe in the real Divine presence of Christ in the Eucharist. This was Satan's plan.
    Blessed be the Lord my God, who teacheth my hands to fight, and my fingers to war. ~ Psalms 143:1 (Douay-Rheims)

    Offline Nobody

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    What isare the problem(s) with Divine Mercy?
    « Reply #9 on: January 25, 2015, 02:29:41 AM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    Do a Google search for the following phrase:

    most holy family divine mercy monastery

    I can't link directly because Matthew purges links to their website.


    And rightly so.

    The devil and the Dimond brothers are two sources I would certainly NOT consult on my quest for the Truth !

    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    What isare the problem(s) with Divine Mercy?
    « Reply #10 on: January 25, 2015, 01:31:42 PM »
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  • Quote from: poche
    I am very much in need of Divine Mercy. I pray for God's mercy every day.


    Divine Mercy is of the devil as are all Novus Ordo devotions. Pray the Rosary instead.
    Remember O most gracious Virgin Mary...


    Offline Croix de Fer

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    What isare the problem(s) with Divine Mercy?
    « Reply #11 on: January 25, 2015, 01:49:13 PM »
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  • Quote from: Nado
    Quote from: ascent
    Quote from: Iuvenalis
    I've never understood in detail what the 'issues'  are with Divine Mercy. [...]


    From another forum to which I responded:

    Quote from: John Doe
    If Saint Faustyna, was truly from the devil as you believe it to be, then how stupid of the devil, because so many souls have been touched through this Saint and Act of Mercy. So many miracles and true conversions have come about, such as my own.


    My response:
    Quote from: (ascent)
    Satan is the master war monger, tactician and deceiver. He will gladly lose many battles that, unbeknownst to people, ultimately yield him more souls being lost, effectively making him the victor of more battles than he would have won had he not employed such tactics, despite the fact that he has already lost the *war* because of Christ's Divine Sacrifice. "Divine Mercy" could be a lie mixed with many truths, using such lies to trick and deceive people into rejecting both the true teachings of Christ and the Catholicity of the Faith, ultimately leading their souls to perdition. Your personal testimony of conversion is an example of the Lord's goodness and grace, which He bestowed upon you in the event of such deception. We know God does not cause evil, but He will, at times, use evil to bring about His holy plan for His children who seek, love and serve Him, but the fact remains people's souls are still in danger if they remain in such deception.

    There are disturbing events in Faustina's testimony, such as the "Host jumping out of the Tabernacle and landing in my (Faustyna's) hands (3 times)"; and her quoted as saying, "I heard these words from the host: 'I desired to rest in your hands, not only in your heart.' ” .... among many other disturbing events.

    The "DM" also seems to imply that despite moral relativism, Christ's mercy will still save everyone. This is diametrically opposed to what Christ and the early Church fathers taught us, which is ONLY through being Baptized into Christ, and accepting Christ as Lord and Savior, and adhering to His teachings, can we be saved. "DM" was the prelude to Holy Communion being placed in the hands of faithful, which is very irreverent, sacrilegious and against the practices of the early Church, and it has led many to NOT believe in the real Divine presence of Christ in the Eucharist. This was Satan's plan.


    [...]

    On another note, I question whether Satan can purposely lose battles due to his unfathomable pride. I base this on the Scriptural excerpt (Matt 12:24-26):

    "But the Pharisees hearing it, said: This man casteth not out the devils but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils. And Jesus knowing their thoughts, said to them: Every kingdom divided against itself shall be made desolate: and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand. And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself: how then shall his kingdom stand?"


    Demons, at the behest of Satan, is only united in bringing as many souls as possible to hell, and attacking Christ and His Church, but they're not united in their means of attack. There is no other unity between demons, nor between the damned. Demons and the damned curse each other in hell, and they bring up each others’ past sins, to further antagonize one another, thus adding to the pain of their eternal separation from the Lord.

    In the temporal realm, the Church is constantly being attacked by Jєωs – the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan, and being assaulted by the descendants of false prophet Muhammad. Many times, it’s Jєωs manipulating the muslims to attack the Church, too, and to attack themselves, hence the division between Sunnis and Shias (look at the Middle East). However, despite the lack of unity in their means of attack, they still know the ultimate result is an attack on the Truth of Christ, and an assault on life breathed into man by Christ.

    Blessed be the Lord my God, who teacheth my hands to fight, and my fingers to war. ~ Psalms 143:1 (Douay-Rheims)

    Offline Ladislaus

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    What isare the problem(s) with Divine Mercy?
    « Reply #12 on: January 25, 2015, 05:07:07 PM »
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  • Quote from: Nobody
    Quote from: Ladislaus
    Do a Google search for the following phrase:

    most holy family divine mercy monastery

    I can't link directly because Matthew purges links to their website.


    And rightly so.

    The devil and the Dimond brothers are two sources I would certainly NOT consult on my quest for the Truth !


    That's just being stupid.  Of all the sources out there they quote the most from the original diaries of Faustina; they do thorough research on a lot of subjects.  I get so tired of people refusing to look at evidence.  If it's faulty, reject it for being faulty.  If not, then what are you afraid of?  I'm so sick of this.

    I personally have a hard time tolerating Father Cekada, for example.  But I still read what he writes, and sometimes he makes a good point.  I will not reject everything he has to say just because.