Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: What is true humility?  (Read 1291 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Matthew

  • Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 31182
  • Reputation: +27097/-494
  • Gender: Male
What is true humility?
« on: October 26, 2011, 01:31:07 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I understand that humility endears us to others, while pride repulses them. It's in human nature.

    Humility is a good thing, pride is a bad thing. Also, it's hard to excel in any of the other virtues until we get our pride somewhat under control. Humility is one of the most important virtues.

    That having been said...

    What should a guy do, to practice humility in a TRUE manner?

    Don't laugh, this discussion doesn't have an easy answer.

    For example:
    You are able to dunk a basketball from the "free throw" line (only a few men in history have been able to do this -- you could probably count them on 1 or 2 hands!). This is what gave Michael Jordan the nickname "Air Jordan".

    If someone asked you about your basketball skills, would it be good to say, "I've dribbled a ball or two..." or would that be false humility? Wouldn't it be better to say, "I can dunk a basketball from the free throw line, glory be to God." matter-of-factly?

    Maybe the issue is not to BRING UP the topic of basketball when in a group of people, because you're likely to end up "shining" when you're forced to reveal your uber-skills to your companions? Maybe you should go out of your way to NOT talk about basketball, but not get all nervous/freaked out when someone DOES bring up the subject? In other words, be impartial about whether your friends choose to talk about something that casts you in a bad light vs. something that casts you in a good light.
    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    Paypal donations: matthew@chantcd.com


    Offline Lybus

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 756
    • Reputation: +176/-1
    • Gender: Male
    What is true humility?
    « Reply #1 on: October 26, 2011, 03:17:47 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The word, "humility" comes from the word, "Humus" which is basically means earth in Latin. It really boils down to not having castles in the air.

    In regards to being a responsible man, would it be interesting to learn, after six years of accuмulating all the wisdom you could, that you had it right all alon


    Offline Raoul76

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4803
    • Reputation: +2007/-6
    • Gender: Male
    What is true humility?
    « Reply #2 on: October 26, 2011, 03:52:23 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I think the only way to be humble is to realize your nothingness in the face of God.  Being able to slam-dunk a basketball would not be a big deal for someone who had any comprehension of the miracles of Christ, the life of Christ, the fact that God was made man, and so on.

    The saints were not impressed with themselves, because they were nothing until God built them up.  If they ever began to get arrogant, God could humble them or strip them of all their powers and give them to someone else.  St. Paul even says it of himself, that he fears lest he become a reprobate.  I can't remember the exact words.

    The more comprehension you have of God, the more humble you will be.  It's a very simple equation.  The saints sought to be obliterated to self in the worship of God.  In the time of the Crisis, sadly, I think people get so wrapped up in all of the various debates that their spiritual life is being ignored.  They think if they figure out that Vat. II is evil that it's all sewn-up for them.  On the contrary, this can lead to arrogance and away from God.  There's nothing about any of us that deserves to be where we are, to be as close to the truth as we are, we were shown grace for reasons that are unfathomable to us.  There is no reason why I have been given a chance when billions, most likely, are on their way to hell.  It almost gives me gooseflesh to think about it.    

    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.

    Offline s2srea

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5106
    • Reputation: +3896/-48
    • Gender: Male
    What is true humility?
    « Reply #3 on: October 26, 2011, 05:54:21 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Lybus
    The word, "humility" comes from the word, "Humus" which is basically means earth in Latin. It really boils down to not having castles in the air.


    Hmm.. I always thought 'Humus' was a tasty appetizer made of chick peas :wink:

    Offline s2srea

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5106
    • Reputation: +3896/-48
    • Gender: Male
    What is true humility?
    « Reply #4 on: October 26, 2011, 06:14:03 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Matthew
    Maybe the issue is not to BRING UP the topic of basketball when in a group of people, because you're likely to end up "shining" when you're forced to reveal your uber-skills to your companions? Maybe you should go out of your way to NOT talk about basketball, but not get all nervous/freaked out when someone DOES bring up the subject? In other words, be impartial about whether your friends choose to talk about something that casts you in a bad light vs. something that casts you in a good light.


    What if you don't get 'freaked out' about the subject, yet still downplay your ability? Is this necessarily wrong? I have a hard time admitting things I'm good at sometimes; sometimes its been an issue with work and interviews. I had to learn what it is I was good at and be able to not only admit this, but actually boast about it (only in interviews). Of course, I don't think this is wrong, pointing out your good qualities, but I also think there's a dangerous opposite.

    We're human, and I think it would be very easy to see a persons taking the stand for "false humility" but still end up being in the wrong. What if you think that you have this great ability to, lets say, tell when people are lying. I mean, you can just 'tell'. You've probably had a few experiences, I'm sure, when you've thought to yourself, "this person is lying to my face," and come to find out, you were right! If this happened more than 3 times- well, you'd naturally think you're really good at catching a liar.

    So knowing about false humility, you come right out in conversation and say things like, "I'm good at catching liars when I see them." Nothing too prideful, just stating a fact about yourself. And lets say a situation comes up where you're wrong. You're wrongly judging someone, unknowingly of course, you feel is not being truthful largely in part because of this recognition of your 'ability'. You call them out and, whether you say it at that time or not, you know that this is a special ability you have to recognize their error. If you're wrong, and people try to correct you, its going to be mighty difficult to change your mind. What's worse, is that some may not even try to correct you for fear of your reaction to what you seem to believe in quite strongly. I mean, you went out of your way to explain to them that it would be false humility to admit otherwise!

    So I think that recognizing what false humility is can be even more dangerous than someone who is simply ignorant, but has a little too much pride about a subject; and who can actually say they're without pride? When someone thinks they've got this humility thing 'figured out', its a lot easier to trick yourself into thinking you're not prideful.

    Personally, I'd rather see a goofy guy be too prideful of dunking from the free-throw line than a guy who tricks himself about false humility.


    Offline Graham

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1768
    • Reputation: +1886/-16
    • Gender: Male
    What is true humility?
    « Reply #5 on: October 26, 2011, 10:40:12 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Baldassare Castiglione offers an interesting perspective; sort of secular and even pagan-seeming but grown up in a basically Christian culture. In other words it isn't what a saint would say but it's valid advice.

    Quote
    He then we now describe, must be brave and valiant in the Field, and amongst the first to face the enemy; but elsewhere humble, modest, and reserved, ever avoiding Ostentation, and an imprudent praising of himself, for by such indiscreet Conduct, a Man ever gains the Odium of those who hear him.

    And I, for my part, said Signor Gaspar, have known few Men excellent in anything whatsoever, but praised themselves. I think we may very well bear with them for doing so, for he who is an able Man in any Art, when he finds his Productions unknown or undervalued by the ignorant, is vexed with a kind of Disdain, and is therefore constrained some how to discover it, that he might not be defrauded of the Honour which is his due, and which is the true Reward of virtuous Labours.

    For which Reason, amongst ancient Writers, he that is most excellent, seldom fails to praise himself; indeed, those who praise themselves, and have no manner of Merit, are Wretches not to be born withal, but such a one we will not suppose our Courtier to be.

    Sir, says the Count, had you well understood my Meaning, you would not have given yourself this Trouble, for I only blamed the imprudent Praising of one’s self, without any Regard of Distinction of Merit: For undoubtedly, as you say, a Man ought not to entertain an ill Opinion of an able Person, that praises himself with Discretion, but rather, take it for a more certain Testimony, than if it came out of another Man’s Mouth. I agree, that he who, in praising himself, commits no Error, nor gets himself the Disesteem of his Hearers, is most discreet, and who, besides the Encomiums he gives himself, deserves the fame of others; but this is no easy Task to manage.

    This, says Signor Gaspar, you must instruct us in.

    Among te Ancient Writers, says the Count, there have not been wanting those who have taught it; but in my Opinion, the whole consists in telling things after such a Manner, that it may appear, as if they are not spoken for that Purpose, but, as if the Subject necessarily required it, always seeming careful to avoid speaking in his own Praise: Not like those who throw out Words at a venture, they don’t care how, as not long since, one of this Company, who was run through the Thigh at Pisa, said, he only took it for the bit of a Fly; and another said, he had no looking Glass in his Chamber, for when he was angry, he looked so terrible, that he was afraid to see himself in the Glass, for Fear of being frighted.

    At this, they all fell a laughing; upon which Signor Cesar Gongaza asked them, what they laughed at? Don’t you know, that Alexander the Great, upon hearing the Opinion of a certain Philosopher, that there were infinite Worlds, fell a weeping; and when he was asked the Reason, answered, because he had not conquered one, yet as though he had a Mind to be Master of them all; And don’t you think this was a greater Bravado, than to speak of the Bite of a Fly?
    And Alexander was a greater Person than he that spoke it, says the Count; but in reality, continued he, excellent Men are to be excused when they take a little upon them, for he that undertakes great things must have a Soul to do them, and a Confidence of himself, and must not have a poor, vile, and abject Spirit; but yet, should be very modest in Expression, to shew that he presumes less on his own Abilities, than in reality he does, provided such Presumption does not extend to Temerity and Rashness.

    Offline Telesphorus

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 12713
    • Reputation: +22/-13
    • Gender: Male
    What is true humility?
    « Reply #6 on: October 26, 2011, 10:46:22 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote
    And Alexander was a greater Person than he that spoke it, says the Count; but in reality, continued he, excellent Men are to be excused when they take a little upon them, for he that undertakes great things must have a Soul to do them, and a Confidence of himself, and must not have a poor, vile, and abject Spirit; but yet, should be very modest in Expression, to shew that he presumes less on his own Abilities, than in reality he does, provided such Presumption does not extend to Temerity and Rashness.


    So he is saying that modesty should be feigned in order to please others.

    To not praise oneself but not show a "poor, vile, and abject Spirit"

    It does seem like a pagan, worldly attitude.

    It does bother me the way some people preach humility - when it seems likely that they are trying to get people to abase themselves for their satisfaction.

    Offline Graham

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1768
    • Reputation: +1886/-16
    • Gender: Male
    What is true humility?
    « Reply #7 on: October 26, 2011, 10:52:32 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Quote
    And Alexander was a greater Person than he that spoke it, says the Count; but in reality, continued he, excellent Men are to be excused when they take a little upon them, for he that undertakes great things must have a Soul to do them, and a Confidence of himself, and must not have a poor, vile, and abject Spirit; but yet, should be very modest in Expression, to shew that he presumes less on his own Abilities, than in reality he does, provided such Presumption does not extend to Temerity and Rashness.


    So he is saying that modesty should be feigned in order to please others.


    I believe he's saying - if one takes into account the whole passage - that one should be interiorily modest (that is, realistic about one's strengths and weaknesses), and that one should sometimes be modest (that is, self-deprecating) in one's self-presentation to please others, and sometimes seek the praise one is due.


    Offline Telesphorus

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 12713
    • Reputation: +22/-13
    • Gender: Male
    What is true humility?
    « Reply #8 on: October 26, 2011, 11:01:32 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote
    to shew that he presumes less on his own Abilities, than in reality he does


    Why would you want people to think you think less of yourself than you really do, except to flatter them in a dishonest manner?

    Offline s2srea

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5106
    • Reputation: +3896/-48
    • Gender: Male
    What is true humility?
    « Reply #9 on: October 26, 2011, 11:09:52 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Quote
    to shew that he presumes less on his own Abilities, than in reality he does


    Why would you want people to think you think less of yourself than you really do, except to flatter them in a dishonest manner?


    Our Lord God was born in a stable. I think there are certain times that its not necessary to show your greatness (in His case) / what you're good at (in our case)

    Offline Vladimir

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1707
    • Reputation: +496/-1
    • Gender: Male
    What is true humility?
    « Reply #10 on: October 26, 2011, 11:13:54 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Attribute what is good in you to God, take the blame for the rest.


    The book "Humility of Heart":

    http://www.catholictradition.org/Classics/humility.htm




    Offline Telesphorus

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 12713
    • Reputation: +22/-13
    • Gender: Male
    What is true humility?
    « Reply #11 on: October 26, 2011, 11:15:37 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: s2srea
    Our Lord God was born in a stable. I think there are certain times that its not necessary to show your greatness (in His case) / what you're good at (in our case)


    I don't think that's really a good example.  I don't think the Incarnation was about humility.  The angels announced to the shepherds that the child was laying in a manger.  That is, earthly greatness is nothing compared to heavenly greatness.

    But getting back to humility.  I've never been offended by people saying what they can do.  Occasionally, I haven't believed them (usually I do), but it has never offended me.  

    Offline Graham

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1768
    • Reputation: +1886/-16
    • Gender: Male
    What is true humility?
    « Reply #12 on: October 26, 2011, 11:18:15 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The book is advice for courtiers in the 16th C. so practical skill in flattery is discussed. It isn't dishonesty, it's 'good form', courtly manners. He advices inner humility and, outwardly, a realistic concern for appearances balanced by a concern for getting one's due.

    I think it's a little misanthropic to call such things dishonest; reminds me of Alceste from the play by Moliere.

    Offline Telesphorus

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 12713
    • Reputation: +22/-13
    • Gender: Male
    What is true humility?
    « Reply #13 on: October 26, 2011, 11:23:08 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Graham
    The book is advice for courtiers in the 16th C. so practical skill in flattery is discussed. It isn't dishonesty, it's 'good form', courtly manners. He advices inner humility and, outwardly, a realistic concern for appearances balanced by a concern for getting one's due.

    I think it's a little misanthropic to call such things dishonest; reminds me of Alceste from the play by Moliere.


      Well it is not lying, that's true.  It is disingenuous though to pretend to be less capable than one is in order to gratify others.

    Lord Chesterfield always reiterated that one should practice dissimulation and flattery.  He compared dissimulation to keeping one's cards hidden.

    Offline Stephen Francis

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 682
    • Reputation: +861/-1
    • Gender: Male
    What is true humility?
    « Reply #14 on: October 26, 2011, 11:24:47 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Humility is, indeed, a response to our position in regard to Our Lord Jesus Christ, Who is altogether perfect and yet Our Ideal, Our Goal and Our Benchmark. We must always bear in mind that no matter how great our accomplishments on earth may be, they pale and rot when compared to the excellencies of Our Savior.

    Humility causes us to work harder, to be better at our tasks, than the day before. Humility does not presume or pretend that skill and excellence do not exist; rather, humility recognizes and accepts both how hard the work has been so far and how hard the work yet remaining will be.

    St. Francis of Assisi, that paragon of humility, upon seeing the thousands that had gathered for a General Chapter meeting, representing a great spread of his Rule and of the precepts of the Gospel, simply said that it was time to begin to work for the Lord's glory, because up to that moment, they had accomplished very little.

    When a subject comes up, like a sport, simply offer that you love to play, that it gives you great enjoyment, and that, yes, you are grateful to God for His gift of recreation.

    Remember that the Apostle St. Paul tells us that charity seeks NOT its own good, but the good of others. It is not for us to pursue awards; if we are awarded this or that, a simple, 'thank you' will suffice.

    We should ALWAYS be modest in both our interior and exterior lives; there is no call for us to exalt ourselves in any sense. Rather, we are to humble ourselves intentionally because we know that nothing good came from us, that is, from our natural abilities or inclinations alone.

    This is one of the main reasons why games and sports should not be entered into in a spirit of competition, but rather for enjoyment and exercise only. Leagues, tournaments etc are the domain of pride and are expressly meant to exalt one person or group over another.

    Our Lord Jesus Christ Himself said, "You know that the princes of the Gentiles lord it over them; and they that are the greater, exercise power upon them. It shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be the greater among you, let him be your minister: And he that will be first among you, shall be your servant. Even as the Son of man is not come to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a redemption for many."

    Immaculate Heart of Mary, triumph soon.

    Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us.
    This evil of heresy spreads itself. The doctrines of godliness are overturned; the rules of the Church are in confusion; the ambition of the unprincipled seizes upon places of authority; and the chief seat [the Papacy] is now openly proposed as a rewar