on page 349: “It now becomes clear that the real heart of faith in the resurrection does not consist at all in the idea of the restoration of bodies, to which we have reduced it in our thinking; such is the case even though this is the pictorial image used throughout the Bible.”

As far as I'm concerned, Gruner is no different than the Protestant hucksters selling "miracle hankies" on TV. They don't care whether your spiritual life works as long as your bank card does.

"Fr." Gruner can "say" the TLM all he wants; he was not ordained to offer the Sacrifice of the Mass for the living and the dead. He is a presider dressing as a priest.

He wants there to be much excitement about "a golly-gosh honest-to-goodness CARDINAL!!" coming to his next conference, yet he has to be satisfied that he has sent messages to Newbishops who are "willing to speak to [Bergoglio]".

Big, fat, hairy deal. So what? Gruner has been repeatedly disobedient to his Newchurch superiors over the last 30 years or more. He's been censured because of that disobedience.

His Fatima apostolate has been near "financial collapse" for most of my life; I remember reading little booklets about how dire his situation was in the 1980s when I was a young child.

It's the same ploy that the Protestants use in their fund-raising... "HURRY!! We've got our MOST IMPORTANT WORK YET to accomplish and we're OUT OF MONEY!!!"

FYI, Bergoglio CAN'T do a "proper consecration"... he's a layman. He was never even ordained as a priest, let alone as a Bishop or Pope.

Quote from: Gruner Letter

Bishop Baseotto and the Holy Father were pillars of the Church during some of the most difficult years in Argentina's history.

HA! Pillars of WHAT? Allowing fαɢɢօts to adopt children and "blessing" their adoption? Pillars of kissing up to Communist leaders? Going to Jєω and Mohammedan services?

Quote from: mikemac

His Faith is definitely stronger than anyone that has posted in this thread so far.  I love Father Gruner's optimism.  He won't give up, like you guys have.

Now who's offering calumny? Who in this thread has given up? I know I have. I've given up on yet another fake Newchuch TV personality/celebrity-preest who is turning Out Lady's message at Fatima into more Protestant-style self-congratulation.

Why isn't he in a parish (you know, like a PRIEST SHOULD BE), teaching people the value of fasting and mortification?

When St. Teresa of Avila or St. John of the Cross felt it was necessary to oppose or rebuke prelates who were their superiors, they didn't go off and start holding conferences and selling books. They PRAYED and FASTED and did PENANCE. Yes, they communicated their concerns, but they didn't take advantage of Americanism within the so-called church by going off on lectures with their merchandise tables in place at the back of the room.

Given up? I don't even GET a traditional Mass to go to where the priests are not diocesan phonies or SSPX sellouts to Newrome. Don't come after me about giving up. I have to live out a Catholic faith that NO ONE around me does. There are NO traditional chapels for hours, there are NO trad Catholics living in my area. Not even my family members are as in agreement with the authority of Holy Church as I am trying to be.

Giving up? Why? Because I haven't turned one apparition/private revelation into the sum and substance of my Catholic identity so I can feel secure like a Protestant, having special insider secrets?

Go back and look up nearly ALL of my posts on CI. Ever notice anything?

Oh, right... I invoke the Immaculate Heart of Our Lady at the end of nearly every one of them.

Why? Because I BELIEVE the Fatima message. I BELIEVE that Our Lady's appearance there and her words are absolutely CRITICAL to understanding the world we live in and how it can be ultimately changed.

I just don't need to be a devotee of a disobedient presider who doesn't even have a parish. He's the frontman of HIS organization. If what he was doing was truly traditional and obedient to the standards of Holy Church, then His Excellency +Williamson and others would be right up front with him.

Notice the profound silence from the traditional clergy, followed by bursts of cricket noise.

By the way, I'm in SERIOUS financial trouble, I've got three children to feed and I have serious medical issues; I don't have my conference itinerary planned out yet. I've got some Fatima items here; maybe I can sell those to you?

I feel no bitterness towards Fr. Gruner.  He has kept Fatima at the forefront for many years.  He has repeated the history of the Fatima over and over again, and does continually remind us how vitally important the Fatima Message is in finally bringing a protracted peace.  However, one has to wonder what the consecration of Francis' "entire pontificate" by the bishops of Portugal to Our Lady of Fatima has to do with anything.  If that consecration does not result in obedience to Our Lady's instructions, then what good is it?  And why the bishops of Portugal?  Fr. Gruner makes it appear that they were commissioned to perform this consecration by the pope himself.  Really?  For what purpose?  What is the end game?  Fr. Gruner knows better than anyone that the world has already been consecrated several times.  Why would he make special note of the pope's intention to repeat that ceremony yet once again?  It just does not compute in my mind.

Is this the thread where members come to post calumny.  It seems like it.

Father Gruner says the Traditional Latin Mass Stephen Francis.

Father Gruner may sound a bit too optimistic to think that Pope Francis will do a proper Consecration of Russia, instead of the world again on Oct. 13, 2013.  But after over 30 years at this apostolate his optimism and faith in what Our Lord and Our Lady said to Sister Lucy is probably what is keeping him going.

on September 11, 2013, the man the world believes to be the Pope of the Catholic Church gave a "catechesis" on the Church as Mother of all Christians -- and managed to insult both the Church, who is the Immaculate Bride of Christ, and the Virgin Mary, Our Lord's Immaculate Mother:

"The Church and the Virgin Mary are both mothers. And what can be said about the Church can also be said about the Virgin, and what can be said about the Virgin can also be said about the Church", Francis begins his instruction, before concluding the first paragraph thus:

"Do we love the Church as we do our own mothers, accepting her with all her flaws? Everyone has flaws, but when these are mentioned we try to cover them up! Do we help make her more beautiful and more genuine?

Instead of drawing a beautiful analogy to the Blessed Virgin Mary to explain how the Church is likewise spotless and untainted, Jorge Bergoglio instead accuses the Bride of Christ of being sullied with "defects" or "flaws" ("difetti") and, having pointed out that what can be said about the Church can equally be said about the Virgin Mary, makes people draw the necessary conclusion that just as the Church has flaws, so does the Blessed Mother.

Blasphemy! Heresy!