Author Topic: What is a Liberal? (Read 2886 times)

InfiniteFaith · « **Reply #20 on:** September 24, 2013, 11:23:00 AM »

Quote from: Traditional Guy 20

Quote from: InfiniteFaith
You think Nativism is a bad thing?

No obviously the less immigration the better. I'm just saying that term is used as an attack by the Left.

Sorry I misread your post

ggreg · « **Reply #21 on:** September 24, 2013, 11:40:14 AM »

Quote from: InfiniteFaith

This is a really good question. I have thought about this before.

I think that a liberal is someone who views the world as being uncertain and that there is not much truth that we know of. They show this in their actions and words.

So someone who wonders why the Church changed it's position on usury, slavery, geocentrism and religious liberty is a liberal?

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A liberal is someone who believes in things without any evidence. Basically someone who believes in what they hear in the media, and so forth, without holding any constructive criticism/skepticism.

So people who believe in homeopathy and alternative medicine are liberals?

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A liberal is someone who makes decisions based on feeling rather than logic.

So 90% of women, including Trad women, are liberals?

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A liberal is someone who believes in what is easier to believe then rejects the truth when it crosses their path because it goes against their agenda.

Hmmm, I think we are all somewhat guilty of that. We are all liberals?

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A liberal is someone who will lie in order to advance an agenda. They think that is ok to lie because, in their minds, their agenda is what is right.

Like people who call Matthew a 'liberal' for example. They are lying in order to promote their alternative forum. Clearly Matthew is not a liberal by any kind of objective measure. No liberal would think Matthew was a liberal would they. That is really the ACID test.

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Liberals are generally anti religionist because they believe that religion causes war, and we are better off without religion.

In that case America cannot be a liberal country, because the majority of Americans are not anti-religion.

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A liberal believes in the idea that society needs to progress past the way things used to be. In their minds, this is for the betterment of society. Generally what these "progressive" ideals lead to is bad things. They just don't realize it nor do they want to.

So Jesus was a liberal when he broke the Jєωιѕн laws and changed laws and norms that had been in place for centuries?

Society has ALWAYS progressed from the word go.

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A liberal is stubborn, and does not live by the truth. They make a lot of false accusations.

That never happens on this forum though does it. I mean one never sees stubborness and false accusations between hard line Traditionalists does one?.

Thurifer · « **Reply #22 on:** September 24, 2013, 12:09:50 PM »

You can't nail this word down. No one can. It is only good for making a comparison much in the same way that a thermometer can measure temperature. Or any other kind of scale can help us to understand certain realities and measure trends.

The biggest liberals and radicals, who were also the most successful wrote and signed something called the Declaration of Independence.

Most people would look upon people of that era as staunch conservatives. They were Revolutionaries that made themselves kings.

Same with conservatism. The first question is "just what are you trying to conserve?". Are today's conservatives happy with abortion? No you say? Some are not? Then they are not conservatives, they are Counter-Revolutionaries.

But they are not really that either. For the most any will do is to speak up in forums and com boxes. Being pretty certain, and this is not an unreasonable view, that the issue is settled.

Most liberals want something for nothing. But so do most conservatives. They are useless terms. We are all liberals and conservatives. It depends what time of the day you ask them as it is always subject to change. That is the reality.

Kind of like George Carlin and his distinction between Maniacs and Idiots when driving. Those that pass you on the road are Maniacs! Those who you want to pass are Idiots!

I suppose the problem is that too many of us, (read most of us) are never satisfied.

claudel · « **Reply #23 on:** September 24, 2013, 12:16:50 PM »

Quote from: ggreg

Quote from: InfiniteFaith
This is a really good question. I have thought about this before.

I think that a liberal is someone who views the world as being uncertain and that there is not much truth that we know of. They show this in their actions and words.

So someone who wonders why the Church changed it's position on usury, slavery, geocentrism and religious liberty is a liberal? [etc.]

The point of ggreg's comment quoted above and of all those that follow it is excellent. Here, as on the Boloki book-burning thread, irrelevant hypotheticals and semidefined situational descriptions are standing in for a serious examination of fundamentals.

That being said, the essence of liberalism lies in its dependence on criminally misplaced idealism, which people who espouse liberalism, either sincerely or only notionally, take as putative justification to play God (or as we say here in NYC, to play Bloomberg) with society and with those unfortunate enough to be subject to their (by their own lights) absolute authority. In short, it is a philosophy of government founded upon unexamined and largely undefined human aspirations rather than on insight into and centuries' experience of human nature. What is more, liberalism's proponents regard those misguided aspirations as trumping everything else: individual rights, appropriate political and moral freedom, and even life itself. Needless to say, the Catholic principles of subsidiarity and morally dictated limits on the exercise of terrestrial authority are not even included in the mix.

Practically speaking, an English writer named Tobias Langdon, in a recent column attacking Tony Blair's betrayal of his own people and treasonous support of Israeli aggression and Jєωιѕн interests generally, expressed the problem very succinctly: "Liberalism is based on lies about human nature and is destroying the West with its lies."

That's an assessment that can't be undermined either by wisecracks or by seriously stated contrary examples.

InfiniteFaith · « **Reply #24 on:** September 24, 2013, 01:10:00 PM »

Quote from: ggreg

Quote from: InfiniteFaith
This is a really good question. I have thought about this before.

I think that a liberal is someone who views the world as being uncertain and that there is not much truth that we know of. They show this in their actions and words.

So someone who wonders why the Church changed it's position on usury, slavery, geocentrism and religious liberty is a liberal?

Quote
A liberal is someone who believes in things without any evidence. Basically someone who believes in what they hear in the media, and so forth, without holding any constructive criticism/skepticism.

So people who believe in homeopathy and alternative medicine are liberals?

Quote
A liberal is someone who makes decisions based on feeling rather than logic.

So 90% of women, including Trad women, are liberals?

Quote
A liberal is someone who believes in what is easier to believe then rejects the truth when it crosses their path because it goes against their agenda.

Hmmm, I think we are all somewhat guilty of that. We are all liberals?

Quote
A liberal is someone who will lie in order to advance an agenda. They think that is ok to lie because, in their minds, their agenda is what is right.

Like people who call Matthew a 'liberal' for example. They are lying in order to promote their alternative forum. Clearly Matthew is not a liberal by any kind of objective measure. No liberal would think Matthew was a liberal would they. That is really the ACID test.

Quote

Liberals are generally anti religionist because they believe that religion causes war, and we are better off without religion.

In that case America cannot be a liberal country, because the majority of Americans are not anti-religion.

Quote
A liberal believes in the idea that society needs to progress past the way things used to be. In their minds, this is for the betterment of society. Generally what these "progressive" ideals lead to is bad things. They just don't realize it nor do they want to.

So Jesus was a liberal when he broke the Jєωιѕн laws and changed laws and norms that had been in place for centuries?

Society has ALWAYS progressed from the word go.

Quote
A liberal is stubborn, and does not live by the truth. They make a lot of false accusations.

That never happens on this forum though does it. I mean one never sees stubborness and false accusations between hard line Traditionalists does one?.

First off, we can all be liberal in certain areas and we are all guilty of some of these things from time to time. Yes, women tend to be more liberal. But that is not to say that all women tend to think with their feelings rather than logic etc. Just most of them.

Yes the Church has become more liberal. I support the concept of Orthodoxy. I believe that morality does not change. If slavery was OK then then it is OK now.

Jesus was not a liberal. He came, established things, then He left. We become liberal when we begin to change from the way that He and the original Church established things.

As far as liberals being stubborn and not living by the Truth goes...they tend to be more like this than everyone else. Yes we can be guilty of these things too though.

I don't think the Church has condemned slavery. Even in the modern Catechism, it mentions that slaves should be treated like brothers.