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Author Topic: What if Adam had refused to taste the forbidden fruit?  (Read 14191 times)

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Re: What if Adam had refused to taste the forbidden fruit?
« Reply #60 on: December 20, 2018, 04:40:30 PM »
Adam is guilty of choosing to sin, but Eve sinned first, thereby, corrupting his and all of nature. She further seduced him, directly, by convincing him to eat of the apple. He still had free will and chose to sin against God by disobeying Him and following the example Eve.

Adam gets the blame because he had authority over Eve, for she was created from his rib by God. He was, ultimately, responsible for the fall because he lapsed in leadership, which allowed Eve to be navigated by her own faculties and trust in Satan, but Eve was the first person to meet all conditions required to sin, thus, she was the mechanism for the fall of man and nature.
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In your attempt to draw attention to the faults of women, you actually do the opposite.  In your view Adam becomes less than a man, absolved (colloquially speaking) of responsibility because women are just that powerful and a man just can't do anything to control himself when given suggestions (obviously there's some truth to this, but nowhere near as much as you're contending). 
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I think you have some issues to sort through. 

Re: What if Adam had refused to taste the forbidden fruit?
« Reply #61 on: December 20, 2018, 06:15:29 PM »
Yeah, a waste of time when you can be spending it on applying the already revealed truths to man.

Speaking truth is not a waste of time.

Ecclesiasticus is canon. It's truth. Quit speculating on things that don't even matter, but are designed to continue the false notion of some intrinsic female innocence.
Who said anything about intrinsic female innocence? Eve sinned and the fall did not occur because she was not the head of the family. When the head of the family sinned, the fall resulted from the person with authority. Therefore "As in Adam all sinned. . ."


Re: What if Adam had refused to taste the forbidden fruit?
« Reply #62 on: December 20, 2018, 06:18:47 PM »
and Cera made one of the biggest fallacies I've seen on this forum. She cites two Biblical passages, which have absolutely no relevance to original sin, that show the New fulfilling the Old, then she erroneously proceeds to use that as a parallel to God somehow abrogating the truth (Ecclesiasticus 25:33) of the Old Testament with the New Testament. Truth can't be revoked, because God is Truth, and He doesn't change. He is the same in the New Testament as in the Old Testament.
The whole point of my post was that the New Testament completes and fulfills the Old Testament. Did you fail to comprehend the words in the scripture passages?

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: What if Adam had refused to taste the forbidden fruit?
« Reply #63 on: December 20, 2018, 06:49:57 PM »
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In your attempt to draw attention to the faults of women, you actually do the opposite.  In your view Adam becomes less than a man, absolved (colloquially speaking) of responsibility because women are just that powerful and a man just can't do anything to control himself when given suggestions (obviously there's some truth to this, but nowhere near as much as you're contending).  
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I think you have some issues to sort through.

That irony was not lost on me either.

Offline trad123

  • Supporter
Re: What if Adam had refused to taste the forbidden fruit?
« Reply #64 on: December 20, 2018, 09:48:22 PM »
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/15011.htm

St. Augustine, On Merit and the Forgiveness of Sins, and the Baptism of Infants (Book I)

Quote
21.

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As a consequence, then, of this disobedience of the flesh and this law of sin and death, whoever is born of the flesh has need of spiritual regeneration — not only that he may reach the kingdom of God, but also that he may be freed from the damnation of sin. Hence men are on the one hand born in the flesh liable to sin and death from the first Adam, and on the other hand are born again in baptism associated with the righteousness and eternal life of the second Adam; even as it is written in the book of Ecclesiasticus: Of the woman came the beginning of sin, and through her we all die. Sirach 25:24 Now whether it be said of the woman or of Adam, both statements pertain to the first man; since (as we know) the woman is of the man, and the two are one flesh. Whence also it is written: And they two shall be one flesh; wherefore, the Lord says, they are no more two, but one flesh. Matthew 19:5-6