Author Topic: What if Adam had refused to taste the forbidden fruit?  (Read 2442 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ladislaus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17836
  • Reputation: +9978/-4479
  • Gender: Male

Offline AlbertP

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • Reputation: +16/-10
  • Gender: Male
Re: What if Adam had refused to taste the forbidden fruit?
« Reply #46 on: December 20, 2018, 09:57:07 AM »
  • Thanks!5
  • No Thanks!1
  • Eve was the first sinner because her action met all conditions required for sin. All of nature fell because of her...
    If Adam had not sinned, Original Sin would not have been passed on to their offspring because of the sin of Eve.  As the Apostles says, “Wherefore as by one man sin entered into this world, and by sin death; and so death passed upon all men, in whom all have sinned.”
     
    Commentary found in the Douay Rheims Bible:  "‘By one man’: Adam, from whom we all contracted original sin”
     
    The Decrees on Original Sin from the Council of Trent
     
    1. If anyone does not confess that the first man, Adam, when he transgressed the commandment of God in paradise, immediately lost the holiness and justice in which he had been constituted, and through the offense of that prevarication incurred the wrath and indignation of god, and thus death with which God had previously threatened him,[4] and, together with death, captivity under his power who thenceforth had the empire of death, that is to say, the devil,[5] and that the entire Adam through that offense of prevarication was changed in body and soul for the worse,[6] let him be anathema.

    2. If anyone asserts that the transgression of Adam injured him alone and not his posterity,[7] and that the holiness and justice which he received from God, which he lost, he lost for himself alone and not for us also; or that he, being defiled by the sin of disobedience, has transfused only death and the pains of the body into the whole human race, but not sin also, which is the death of the soul, let him be anathema, since he contradicts the Apostle who says:
     ‘By one man sin entered into the world and by sin death; and so death passed upon all men, in whom all have sinned’.[8]


    3. If anyone asserts that this sin of Adam, which in its origin is one, and by propagation, not by imitation, is transfused into all, which is in each one as something that is his own, is taken away either by the forces of human nature or by a remedy other than the merit of the one mediator, our Lord Jesus Christ,[9] who has reconciled us to God in his own blood, made unto us justice, sanctification and redemption;[10] or if he denies that that merit of Jesus Christ is applied both to adults and to infants by the sacrament of baptism rightly administered in the form of the Church, let him be anathema; for there is no other name under heaven given to men, whereby we must be saved.[11]

    Whence that declaration: ‘Behold the Lamb of God, behold him who taketh away the sins of the world;’[12] and that other: ‘As many of you as have been baptized, have put on Christ.’[13]

    4. If anyone denies that infants, newly born from their mothers' wombs, are to be baptized, even though they be born of baptized parents, or says that they are indeed baptized for the remission of sins,[14] but that they derive nothing of original sin from Adam which must be expiated by the laver of regeneration for the attainment of eternal life, whence it follows that in them the form of baptism for the remission of sins is to be understood not as true but as false, let him be anathema, for what the Apostle has said, by one man sin entered into the world, and by sin death, and so death passed upon all men, in whom all have sinned,[15] is not to be understood otherwise than as the Catholic Church has everywhere and always understood it.”
     
    It is a dogma of faith that Original Sin was passed on by the sin of Adam, not Eve.  If Eve had sinned, but Adam did not, Original Sin would not have been passed on.  


    Offline Ladislaus

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 17836
    • Reputation: +9978/-4479
    • Gender: Male
    Re: What if Adam had refused to taste the forbidden fruit?
    « Reply #47 on: December 20, 2018, 11:33:17 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
  • If Adam had not sinned, Original Sin would not have been passed on to their offspring because of the sin of Eve.  As the Apostles says, “Wherefore as by one man sin entered into this world, and by sin death; and so death passed upon all men, in whom all have sinned.”

    That doesn't necessarily follow from your citations.

    Offline Quid Retribuam Domino

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 487
    • Reputation: +267/-355
    • Gender: Male
    Re: What if Adam had refused to taste the forbidden fruit?
    « Reply #48 on: December 20, 2018, 11:36:04 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!3
  • Quid,
    You continue to explain what happened in real life, which is not what we're talking about.  We're talking about a "what-if" scenario,...

    Your hypothesis for the "what-if" scenario is wrong, too. You have nothing but conjecture to try to "back up" what you claim. Stop wasting time on "what-if" scenarios. Time is short.


    Quote
    p.s. If you go around correcting random women you're not being a man,...

    #gynecomastia
    From the woman came the beginning of sin, and by her we all die. ~ Ecclesiasticus 25:33

    International Women's Day is a day we all celebrate Eve's rebellion at the Tree and our plummet into sin.

    Offline Quid Retribuam Domino

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 487
    • Reputation: +267/-355
    • Gender: Male
    Re: What if Adam had refused to taste the forbidden fruit?
    « Reply #49 on: December 20, 2018, 11:43:15 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!4
  • If Adam had not sinned, Original Sin would not have been passed on to their offspring because of the sin of Eve.  As the Apostles says, “Wherefore as by one man sin entered into this world, and by sin death; and so death passed upon all men, in whom all

    "Man" in that context, means "man" and/or "woman", just as that was the traditional meaning since the dawn of language until feminists and Jews tried to recreate language. It doesn't mean man per se.

    Everything else you said is wrong, too, as it's built off this false premise.

    Ecclesiasticus is CANON. It tells us woman (Eve) was the first person to sin, and by HER we all DIE.

    Lay off the soy.
    From the woman came the beginning of sin, and by her we all die. ~ Ecclesiasticus 25:33

    International Women's Day is a day we all celebrate Eve's rebellion at the Tree and our plummet into sin.


    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4547
    • Reputation: +2768/-1258
    • Gender: Male
    Re: What if Adam had refused to taste the forbidden fruit?
    « Reply #50 on: December 20, 2018, 12:28:11 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
  • Quote
    Your hypothesis for the "what-if" scenario is wrong, too. You have nothing but conjecture to try to "back up" what you claim. Stop wasting time on "what-if" scenarios. Time is short.
    It's called "theological speculation", something you have no capacity for.


    Quote
    Time is short.
    Ha ha.  This advice is coming from a supposed-male yenta who spends countless hours on this site (and probably other sites too) arguing with women he doesn't even know.

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 17836
    • Reputation: +9978/-4479
    • Gender: Male
    Re: What if Adam had refused to taste the forbidden fruit?
    « Reply #51 on: December 20, 2018, 12:40:21 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!2
  • Yes, theologians engage in speculative theology all the time ... in order to help clarify and illustrate principles.

    Offline Quid Retribuam Domino

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 487
    • Reputation: +267/-355
    • Gender: Male
    Re: What if Adam had refused to taste the forbidden fruit?
    « Reply #52 on: December 20, 2018, 01:01:10 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Yes, theologians engage in speculative theology all the time ... in order to help clarify and illustrate principles.

    That's not the same as speculating on a "If Adam had not sinned..." scenario. He did sin, therefore, any speculation needs to follow from that fact.
    From the woman came the beginning of sin, and by her we all die. ~ Ecclesiasticus 25:33

    International Women's Day is a day we all celebrate Eve's rebellion at the Tree and our plummet into sin.


    Offline Quid Retribuam Domino

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 487
    • Reputation: +267/-355
    • Gender: Male
    Re: What if Adam had refused to taste the forbidden fruit?
    « Reply #53 on: December 20, 2018, 01:02:02 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
  • It's called "theological speculation", something you have no capacity for.

    Yeah, a waste of time when you can be spending it on applying the already revealed truths to man.

    Quote
    Ha ha.  This advice is coming from a supposed-male yenta who spends countless hours on this site (and probably other sites too) arguing with women he doesn't even know.

    Speaking truth is not a waste of time.

    Ecclesiasticus is canon. It's truth. Quit speculating on things that don't even matter, but are designed to continue the false notion of some intrinsic female innocence.
    From the woman came the beginning of sin, and by her we all die. ~ Ecclesiasticus 25:33

    International Women's Day is a day we all celebrate Eve's rebellion at the Tree and our plummet into sin.

    Offline Quid Retribuam Domino

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 487
    • Reputation: +267/-355
    • Gender: Male
    Re: What if Adam had refused to taste the forbidden fruit?
    « Reply #54 on: December 20, 2018, 01:33:20 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • This OP, and many commenting on this thread, commit Begging The Question fallacy.

    It ignores the fact that Adam would NOT have sinned, if Eve had not sinned first, weakened his nature and corrupted him to sin. 

    Your fallacy is Eve remained without stain of sin, despite the fact she was the first person to disobey God and trust Satan.
    From the woman came the beginning of sin, and by her we all die. ~ Ecclesiasticus 25:33

    International Women's Day is a day we all celebrate Eve's rebellion at the Tree and our plummet into sin.

    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4547
    • Reputation: +2768/-1258
    • Gender: Male
    Re: What if Adam had refused to taste the forbidden fruit?
    « Reply #55 on: December 20, 2018, 01:36:13 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Hey Quid,
    The title of this thread started off with the 2 words "What if...".  Maybe if you had better reading comprehension skills, you could've avoided this "waste of time" and leave those of us alone who wish to discuss it. 


    Offline Quid Retribuam Domino

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 487
    • Reputation: +267/-355
    • Gender: Male
    Re: What if Adam had refused to taste the forbidden fruit?
    « Reply #56 on: December 20, 2018, 01:38:20 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Hey Quid,
    The title of this thread started off with the 2 words "What if...".  Maybe if you had better reading comprehension skills, you could've avoided this "waste of time" and leave those of us alone who wish to discuss it.

    You're the one who lacks reading comprehension of logical fallacies.

    That "what if..." is the mechanism of the Begging The Question fallacy, and its basis is the false notion that Eve remained without stain of sin.
    From the woman came the beginning of sin, and by her we all die. ~ Ecclesiasticus 25:33

    International Women's Day is a day we all celebrate Eve's rebellion at the Tree and our plummet into sin.

    Offline Vintagewife3

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 677
    • Reputation: +288/-216
    • Gender: Female
    Re: What if Adam had refused to taste the forbidden fruit?
    « Reply #57 on: December 20, 2018, 01:39:52 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • This OP, and many commenting on this thread, commit Begging The Question fallacy.

    It ignores the fact that Adam would NOT have sinned, if Eve had not sinned first, weakened his nature and corrupted him to sin.  

    Your fallacy is Eve remained without stain of sin, despite the fact she was the first person to disobey God and trust Satan.
    Adam corrupted his own nature. He could have thrown the apple away, and Talked To God right away. You can’t blame just the woman for a sin you joined in on. Both of them sinned. Both of them damned us to original sin. But Adam didn’t have to go with it.

    Offline Quid Retribuam Domino

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 487
    • Reputation: +267/-355
    • Gender: Male
    Re: What if Adam had refused to taste the forbidden fruit?
    « Reply #58 on: December 20, 2018, 01:48:09 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
  • Adam corrupted his own nature. He could have thrown the apple away, and Talked To God right away. You can’t blame just the woman for a sin you joined in on. Both of them sinned. Both of them damned us to original sin. But Adam didn’t have to go with it.

    Adam is guilty of choosing to sin, but Eve sinned first, thereby, corrupting his and all of nature. She further seduced him, directly, by convincing him to eat of the apple. He still had free will and chose to sin against God by disobeying Him and following the example Eve.

    Adam gets the blame because he had authority over Eve, for she was created from his rib by God. He was, ultimately, responsible for the fall because he lapsed in leadership, which allowed Eve to be navigated by her own faculties and trust in Satan, but Eve was the first person to meet all conditions required to sin, thus, she was the mechanism for the fall of man and nature.
    From the woman came the beginning of sin, and by her we all die. ~ Ecclesiasticus 25:33

    International Women's Day is a day we all celebrate Eve's rebellion at the Tree and our plummet into sin.

    Offline Quid Retribuam Domino

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 487
    • Reputation: +267/-355
    • Gender: Male
    Re: What if Adam had refused to taste the forbidden fruit?
    « Reply #59 on: December 20, 2018, 02:04:22 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • and Cera made one of the biggest fallacies I've seen on this forum. She cites two Biblical passages, which have absolutely no relevance to original sin, that show the New fulfilling the Old, then she erroneously proceeds to use that as a parallel to God somehow abrogating the truth (Ecclesiasticus 25:33) of the Old Testament with the New Testament. Truth can't be revoked, because God is Truth, and He doesn't change. He is the same in the New Testament as in the Old Testament.
    From the woman came the beginning of sin, and by her we all die. ~ Ecclesiasticus 25:33

    International Women's Day is a day we all celebrate Eve's rebellion at the Tree and our plummet into sin.

     

    Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16