Author Topic: What if Adam had refused to taste the forbidden fruit?  (Read 2430 times)

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Offline Quid Retribuam Domino

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Re: What if Adam had refused to taste the forbidden fruit?
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2018, 04:36:34 PM »
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  • The fall of man still happened because Eve sinned first. We all inherit original sin and die because of her.

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    From the woman came the beginning of sin, and by her we all die. ~ Ecclesiasticus 25:33
    From the woman came the beginning of sin, and by her we all die. ~ Ecclesiasticus 25:33

    International Women's Day is a day we all celebrate Eve's rebellion at the Tree and our plummet into sin.

    Offline Vintagewife3

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    Re: What if Adam had refused to taste the forbidden fruit?
    « Reply #16 on: December 18, 2018, 04:49:41 PM »
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  • If it was genetically/spiritually passed on wouldn’t that make baptism obsolete? Just asking for clarification!

    Or would the genetic part be our desire to continue to do our own will not God’s? 


    Offline Quid Retribuam Domino

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    Re: What if Adam had refused to taste the forbidden fruit?
    « Reply #17 on: December 18, 2018, 04:57:44 PM »
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  • If it was genetically/spiritually passed on wouldn’t that make baptism obsolete? Just asking for clarification!

    Water baptism erases the guilt of original sin and regenerates the soul for the other requirements for salvation: Faith and works in Jesus Christ at the age of reason; and, essentially, Faith in, and practice of, what's contained in the Athanasian Creed.
    From the woman came the beginning of sin, and by her we all die. ~ Ecclesiasticus 25:33

    International Women's Day is a day we all celebrate Eve's rebellion at the Tree and our plummet into sin.

    Offline Vintagewife3

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    Re: What if Adam had refused to taste the forbidden fruit?
    « Reply #18 on: December 18, 2018, 05:03:04 PM »
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  • Water baptism erases the guilt of original sin and regenerates the soul for the other requirements for salvation: Faith and works in Jesus Christ at the age of reason; and, essentially, Faith in, and practice of, what's contained in the Athanasian Creed.
    I understand what baptism is. I am a baptized Catholic, Quid. I mean if it’s not part of us genetically, what would the purpose of baptism be? You can’t wash away genetics. 

    Offline Quid Retribuam Domino

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    Re: What if Adam had refused to taste the forbidden fruit?
    « Reply #19 on: December 18, 2018, 05:05:31 PM »
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  • I understand what baptism is. I am a baptized Catholic, Quid. I mean if it’s not part of us genetically, what would the purpose of baptism be? You can’t wash away genetics.

    You obviously don't understand baptism, for if you did, you wouldn't ask the question in the first place, and then follow it up with another spin.

    The question is answered, but you refuse to hear it. The dense cranium of a modern woman.
    From the woman came the beginning of sin, and by her we all die. ~ Ecclesiasticus 25:33

    International Women's Day is a day we all celebrate Eve's rebellion at the Tree and our plummet into sin.


    Offline Vintagewife3

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    Re: What if Adam had refused to taste the forbidden fruit?
    « Reply #20 on: December 18, 2018, 05:09:21 PM »
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  • You obviously don't understand baptism, for if you did, you wouldn't ask the question in the first place, and then follow it up with another spin.

    The question is answered, but you refuse to hear it. The dense cranium of a modern woman.
    You can wash it away SPIRITUALLY
    But you can’t wash away genetics. 

    Offline Quid Retribuam Domino

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    Re: What if Adam had refused to taste the forbidden fruit?
    « Reply #21 on: December 18, 2018, 05:14:30 PM »
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  • You can wash it away SPIRITUALLY
    But you can’t wash away genetics.

    Water baptism erases the guilt of original sin, but everyone, except the Christ and His Blessed Mother (both of Whom are conceived Immaculately, hence, no original sin), inherits the physical effects of original sin. Not only humans, but animals and the rest of nature.
    From the woman came the beginning of sin, and by her we all die. ~ Ecclesiasticus 25:33

    International Women's Day is a day we all celebrate Eve's rebellion at the Tree and our plummet into sin.

    Offline Endeavor

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    Re: What if Adam had refused to taste the forbidden fruit?
    « Reply #22 on: December 18, 2018, 06:13:41 PM »
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  • Concupiscence remains as a lingering effect after baptism.

    “Start being brave about everything. Drive out darkness and spread light. Don’t look at your weaknesses. Realize instead that in Christ crucified you can do everything


    Offline Vintagewife3

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    Re: What if Adam had refused to taste the forbidden fruit?
    « Reply #23 on: December 18, 2018, 06:30:56 PM »
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  • Concupiscence remains as a lingering effect after baptism.
    I remember that from Religious class. So, I wonder if we have to fight our genetics to stay true to Gods will.  

    If original sin is genetic as well as spiritual.

    Offline Quid Retribuam Domino

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    Re: What if Adam had refused to taste the forbidden fruit?
    « Reply #24 on: December 18, 2018, 06:39:26 PM »
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  • I remember that from Religious class. So, I wonder if we have to fight our genetics to stay true to Gods will. 

    If original sin is genetic as well as spiritual.

    We're all wounded physically, mentally and spiritually because of original sin, but the soul is freed of its guilt upon water baptism.

    But Blessed Mary and the *human nature* of Jesus Christ still experienced temptations and they had free will, just as Adam and Eve when they were first created without the stain of sin. As we know, Mary and the Christ chose God over temptation every time, but Eve, and subsequently, Adam, chose sin over God.

    * * Jesus Christ is a Divine Being with two natures: Divine and human
    From the woman came the beginning of sin, and by her we all die. ~ Ecclesiasticus 25:33

    International Women's Day is a day we all celebrate Eve's rebellion at the Tree and our plummet into sin.

    Offline Endeavor

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    Re: What if Adam had refused to taste the forbidden fruit?
    « Reply #25 on: December 18, 2018, 07:03:20 PM »
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  • It is not genetic.
    “Start being brave about everything. Drive out darkness and spread light. Don’t look at your weaknesses. Realize instead that in Christ crucified you can do everything


    Offline Student of Qi

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    Re: What if Adam had refused to taste the forbidden fruit?
    « Reply #26 on: December 19, 2018, 12:26:36 PM »
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  • Do the Church Fathers address this topic? Did St. Thomas Aquinas?

    My opinion is expressed below,  so notice the use of modal verbs and the hypothetical "if".

    If Adam had refused Eve's request to taste of the forbidden fruit, then Adam, as head of the First Family, could have prayerfully led Eve to repentance as acts of repentance and forgiveness are graces from God.  Then Adam would have fulfilled his role as Priest, Prophet, and King. When the two met Christ on their daily walks in Eden, then Adam could have begged Christ to forgive Eve, and things could have been restored.

    But would that initial rebellious sin of Eve have left a weakness that could have been passed onto their offspring? Would Christ as Savior and Redeemer still need to be born to redeem us?

    We must also ask: Why was Christ our eternal King and God known as the Incarnate God? He created the world, and appeared as the Incarnate God in His daily walks in the Garden of Eden even before His Incarnation as a New Born Child.

    "O Happy Fault that merited such and so great a Redeemer!"

    Even St. David the Psalmist begged forgiveness and was forgiven long before the birth of Christ. Psalm 50 is a product of that repentance.
    Growing up I've always been told that if Eve alone sinned, mankind as a whole would not have fallen. Though we are and must be born from a woman, it is the man who transmits Original Sin to his children, not the woman, because the man is responsible for deciding the course the family is to take.
    Many people say "For the Honor and Glory of God!" but, what they should say is "For the Love, Glory and Honor of God". - Fr. Paul of Moll

    Offline Quid Retribuam Domino

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    Re: What if Adam had refused to taste the forbidden fruit?
    « Reply #27 on: December 19, 2018, 03:13:50 PM »
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  • Growing up I've always been told that if Eve alone sinned, mankind as a whole would not have fallen.

    You were told wrong.

    "From the woman came the beginning of sin, and by her we all die." ~ Ecclesiasticus 25:33
    From the woman came the beginning of sin, and by her we all die. ~ Ecclesiasticus 25:33

    International Women's Day is a day we all celebrate Eve's rebellion at the Tree and our plummet into sin.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: What if Adam had refused to taste the forbidden fruit?
    « Reply #28 on: December 19, 2018, 03:24:56 PM »
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  • Quote
    "From the woman came the beginning of sin, and by her we all die." ~ Ecclesiasticus 25:33
    This is talking about the current reality of things.

    Quote
    Growing up I've always been told that if Eve alone sinned, mankind as a whole would not have fallen.
    This is talking about the "what if" scenario.
    She's not wrong.

    Offline Quid Retribuam Domino

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    Re: What if Adam had refused to taste the forbidden fruit?
    « Reply #29 on: December 19, 2018, 03:35:02 PM »
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  • This is talking about the current reality of things.
    This is talking about the "what if" scenario.
    She's not wrong.

    She is wrong because all of mankind (did) still would have fallen. Her fall might have transcended over to Adam, thus making him more susceptible to her corrupting him, subsequently, his eating of the apple.

    All of nature fell because of Eve.
    From the woman came the beginning of sin, and by her we all die. ~ Ecclesiasticus 25:33

    International Women's Day is a day we all celebrate Eve's rebellion at the Tree and our plummet into sin.

     

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