Author Topic: What do you think true love is? (Read 3256 times)

InfiniteFaith · « **on:** June 19, 2013, 01:04:14 PM »

How would you describe true love? I am going to hold my idea of true love back until a few people have expressed their opinion.

shin · « **Reply #1 on:** June 19, 2013, 01:28:54 PM »

Two Fathers asked God to reveal to them how far they had advanced. A voice came which said, 'In a certain village in Egypt there is a man called Eucharistus and his wife who is called Mary. You have not yet reached their degree of virtue.'

The two old men set out and went to the village. Having enquired, they found his house and his wife. They said to her, 'Where is your husband?' She replied, 'He is a shepherd and is feeding the sheep.' Then she made them come into the house. When evening came, Eucharistus returned with the sheep. Seeing the old men, he set the table and brought water to wash their feet. The old men said to him, 'We shall not eat anything until you have told us about your way of life.'

Eucharistus replied with humility, 'I am a Shepherd, and this is my wife.' The old men insisted but he did not want to say more. Then they said, 'God has sent us to you.' At these words, Eucharistus was afraid and said, 'Here are these sheep; we received them from our parents, and if, by God's help we make a little profit, we divide it into three parts: one for the poor, the second for hospitality, and the third for our personal needs. Since I married my wife, we have not had relations with one another, for she is a virgin; we each live alone. At night we wear hair-shirts and our ordinary clothes by day. No-one has known of this till now.'

At these words they were filled with admiration and went away giving glory to God.

- from the sayings of the Desert Fathers
...

What first came to mind when the question is asked. Then I think of the Holy Family. There's a little book about St. Joseph called 'Divine Favors Granted to' that comes to mind.

InfiniteFaith · « **Reply #2 on:** June 19, 2013, 02:18:52 PM »

Quote from: shin

Two Fathers asked God to reveal to them how far they had advanced. A voice came which said, 'In a certain village in Egypt there is a man called Eucharistus and his wife who is called Mary. You have not yet reached their degree of virtue.'

The two old men set out and went to the village. Having enquired, they found his house and his wife. They said to her, 'Where is your husband?' She replied, 'He is a shepherd and is feeding the sheep.' Then she made them come into the house. When evening came, Eucharistus returned with the sheep. Seeing the old men, he set the table and brought water to wash their feet. The old men said to him, 'We shall not eat anything until you have told us about your way of life.'

Eucharistus replied with humility, 'I am a Shepherd, and this is my wife.' The old men insisted but he did not want to say more. Then they said, 'God has sent us to you.' At these words, Eucharistus was afraid and said, 'Here are these sheep; we received them from our parents, and if, by God's help we make a little profit, we divide it into three parts: one for the poor, the second for hospitality, and the third for our personal needs. Since I married my wife, we have not had relations with one another, for she is a virgin; we each live alone. At night we wear hair-shirts and our ordinary clothes by day. No-one has known of this till now.'

At these words they were filled with admiration and went away giving glory to God.

- from the sayings of the Desert Fathers
...

What first came to mind when the question is asked. Then I think of the Holy Family. There's a little book about St. Joseph called 'Divine Favors Granted to' that comes to mind.

So in other words you are just saying that true love is non-sɛҳuąƖ. I think I agree with that.

Matthew · « **Reply #3 on:** June 19, 2013, 02:23:56 PM »

The love of charity is higher than the love of eros, yes.

That having been said, most men (about 2/3, according to one saint) are called to marriage, and most of these are called to be fathers.

Matto · « **Reply #4 on:** June 19, 2013, 02:34:38 PM »

Quote from: shin

Two Fathers asked God to reveal to them how far they had advanced. A voice came which said, 'In a certain village in Egypt there is a man called Eucharistus and his wife who is called Mary. You have not yet reached their degree of virtue.'

The two old men set out and went to the village. Having enquired, they found his house and his wife. They said to her, 'Where is your husband?' She replied, 'He is a shepherd and is feeding the sheep.' Then she made them come into the house. When evening came, Eucharistus returned with the sheep. Seeing the old men, he set the table and brought water to wash their feet. The old men said to him, 'We shall not eat anything until you have told us about your way of life.'

Eucharistus replied with humility, 'I am a Shepherd, and this is my wife.' The old men insisted but he did not want to say more. Then they said, 'God has sent us to you.' At these words, Eucharistus was afraid and said, 'Here are these sheep; we received them from our parents, and if, by God's help we make a little profit, we divide it into three parts: one for the poor, the second for hospitality, and the third for our personal needs. Since I married my wife, we have not had relations with one another, for she is a virgin; we each live alone. At night we wear hair-shirts and our ordinary clothes by day. No-one has known of this till now.'

At these words they were filled with admiration and went away giving glory to God.

- from the sayings of the Desert Fathers
...

What first came to mind when the question is asked. Then I think of the Holy Family. There's a little book about St. Joseph called 'Divine Favors Granted to' that comes to mind.

That's a great story.

shin · « **Reply #5 on:** June 19, 2013, 02:36:56 PM »

St. Maximus the Confessor says..

'Men love one another, commendably or reprehensibly, for the following five reasons; either for the sake of God, as the virtuous man loves everyone and as the man not yet virtuous loves the virtuous; or by nature, as parents love their children and children their parents; or because of self-esteem, as he who is praised loves the man who praises him; or because of avarice, as with one who loves a rich man for what he can get out of him; or because of self-indulgence, as with the man who serves his belly and his genitals. The first of these is commendable, the second is of an intermediate kind, the rest are dominated by passion.'

Which is food for thought for me.

Quote

That having been said, most men (about 2/3, according to one saint) are called to marriage, and most of these are called to be fathers.

Matthew, do you recall at all who and where?

shin · « **Reply #6 on:** June 19, 2013, 02:43:20 PM »

Quote from: Matto

That's a great story.

Yes, it really stayed with me after the first time I read it, I couldn't forget it, and so I had to eventually copy it down, wouldn't do to let it gather dust. :)

It seems to me that when I read of married saints one often hears of mutual consent to take vows of celibacy later in life.

Gathering more than one kind of spiritual treasure that way.

shin · « **Reply #7 on:** June 19, 2013, 02:44:30 PM »

Quote from: InfiniteFaith

How would you describe true love? I am going to hold my idea of true love back until a few people have expressed their opinion.

Sorry if the thread's a little diverted by the story if you have something else in thought? Forgive me if so.

Matthew · « **Reply #8 on:** June 19, 2013, 02:56:39 PM »

Quote from: shin

St. Maximus the Confessor says..

'Men love one another, commendably or reprehensibly, for the following five reasons; either for the sake of God, as the virtuous man loves everyone and as the man not yet virtuous loves the virtuous; or by nature, as parents love their children and children their parents; or because of self-esteem, as he who is praised loves the man who praises him; or because of avarice, as with one who loves a rich man for what he can get out of him; or because of self-indulgence, as with the man who serves his belly and his genitals. The first of these is commendable, the second is of an intermediate kind, the rest are dominated by passion.'

Which is food for thought for me.

Quote

That having been said, most men (about 2/3, according to one saint) are called to marriage, and most of these are called to be fathers.

Matthew, do you recall at all who and where?

Just FYI, Catholic teaching is that a normal (consummated) marriage would fit into the 2nd category ("by nature"). And by marrying for the right reason (to raise up children for heaven) and marrying within the Church, you dabble in that 1st category ("for the sake of God") as well.

Refer to the cases where priests advised pious couples to go ahead and have children (St. Therese the Little Flower's parents, for one).

Though some marriages are for lust (the "self indulgence" category), some get married for money ("avarice") or for other reasons. To make things more complicated, most men have a multitude of motivations for a given action that only God can sort out.

Also, many wise, holy and intelligent writers would point out that 2013 isn't the time to be an example of perfect chastity -- the example needed by modern men today is that of chastity within marriage, and doing God's will (not preventing conception). I believe that was one of the arguments the priest gave to Louis and Zelie Martin.

You could have a pious couple in a Josephite marriage, and they might be gaining much merit personally. But how many people would believe them, or assume they're practicing great self-denial? No one would see it. What people would assume is that they're either sterile, or practicing birth control.

I don't think the medicine for our age is a great number of Josephite marriages. We need more good examples, more heroic and/or big families.

InfiniteFaith · « **Reply #9 on:** June 19, 2013, 03:10:43 PM »

Quote from: shin

Quote from: InfiniteFaith
How would you describe true love? I am going to hold my idea of true love back until a few people have expressed their opinion.

Sorry if the thread's a little diverted by the story if you have something else in thought? Forgive me if so.

I was thinking that sɛҳuąƖ attraction is only a piece of the pie. It seems to me that we should all be striving for a well balanced marriage. Where both would have a spiritual connection, emotional connection, true love, and sɛҳuąƖ attraction. True love to me is when you feel at peace with the person you are married to. That person makes you glow. You want to be around that person, and yes you want intimacy with that person but not necessarily sɛҳuąƖly. You also care about each others happiness and needs. The feelings must be mutual. Not just one of the two people feeling this way.

I think that in a relationship based on sɛҳuąƖ attraction, sɛҳuąƖ feelings for each other will be stronger/more frequent since that is the only focus. If the focus is on love then the sɛҳuąƖ attraction would be less frequent. Yes there would be strong sɛҳuąƖ attraction from time to time just not as often since it is not the main focus. A relationship that incorporates the entire pie will be much more balanced and more fulfilling. Both people would have a healthier balanced relationship. If you confuse sɛҳuąƖ attraction/infatuation for real love then the relationship probably will not last. sɛҳuąƖ attraction can only go so far on its own. It would not be a healthy relationship. I think its really important for 2 people to set aside those types of feelings and just spend time with each other getting to know each other. That way the spiritual connection and true love can develop. It would be important to control the sɛҳuąƖ feelings especially in the beginning stages of the relationship. I'm sure many people might think this is all common sense. But I question whether or not many people have ever thought about it by breaking it down and realizing how important this kind of stuff is. I think many people have not matured in this area of their lives.

Matthew · « **Reply #10 on:** June 19, 2013, 03:40:14 PM »

There's nothing wrong with discerning the Signs of the Times.

In the age of Jansenism, we needed the devotion to the Sacred Heart. This was God's idea.

Today, with Western (formerly Christian) society contracepting and aborting itself into oblivion, we clearly need MORE children and big families nowadays, not less. Especially from Catholic families!

Obviously we can't all have the largest of families, but we can all do our part, even if that is just praying for and helping others materially.

If we fail, the whole world will be Mohammedan in 50 years.

InfiniteFaith · « **Reply #11 on:** June 19, 2013, 03:43:37 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

There's nothing wrong with discerning the Signs of the Times.

In the age of Jansenism, we needed the devotion to the Sacred Heart. This was God's idea.

Today, with Western (formerly Christian) society contracepting and aborting itself into oblivion, we clearly need MORE children and big families nowadays, not less. Especially from Catholic families!

Obviously we can't all have the largest of families, but we can all do our part, even if that is just praying for and helping others materially.

If we fail, the whole world will be Mohammedan in 50 years.

why do you say that about mohammedan?

Angel9 · « **Reply #12 on:** June 20, 2013, 04:11:44 PM »

Its seems that only boys are posting on this thread, and if there are some girls than forgive me :)

love is like the sun sets in each persons eyes and then there are fireworks. You might get this nervous feeling when you are around them. You think about them all the time, and you would imagine that they were with you right now. And you are disappointed in your heart when you realize you cant see them for a week, or more, and you like them for what they do.

That is my definition, there probably is more but I cant describe the wonders.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #13 on:** June 20, 2013, 04:23:45 PM »

Quote from: Charlotte Brontë character

"I like to serve you, sir, and to obey you in all that is right"

magdalena · « **Reply #14 on:** June 20, 2013, 04:41:32 PM »

[11] These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and your joy may be filled. [12] This is my commandment, that you love one another, as I have loved you. [13] Greater love than this no man hath, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

John 15:11-13

That holds for marriage as well.