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Author Topic: What do you do?  (Read 2140 times)

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Offline tradlover

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What do you do?
« on: May 08, 2012, 01:13:56 PM »
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  • disclaimer,     this is not a real story just hypothetical.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Say a young 20 year old woman is walking on a street. Then a man with a gun comes to her and drags her into an alley and beats her up and then rapes her.   By the time she comes to her senses and seeks treatment they find that she had conceived due to the rape. Her doctor and friends tell her to abort the baby. The girl does not want to deal with the baby who is the product of a rape since it would remind her all the days of her life of that painful incident. so she is very sympathetic to the abortion idea due to the above circuмstances.

      Also she hoped to marry someday and wanted to preserve her virginity. Were she to marry should she then wear white?

            Also what are the arguments for or against the abortion decision under those circuмstances?


    Offline clare

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    What do you do?
    « Reply #1 on: May 08, 2012, 01:19:34 PM »
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  • There are no arguments for abortion, under any circuмstances.


    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #2 on: May 08, 2012, 01:29:43 PM »
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  • She should give the baby up for adoption. It didn't do anything wrong, so the baby certainly doesn't deserve the death penalty, much less a gruesome death penalty involving being burned alive with salt, or being torn limb from limb while still alive.
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    Offline brainglitch

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    « Reply #3 on: May 08, 2012, 01:40:15 PM »
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  • Definitely, adoption is the best option. There are Trad couples who would love to have children but are unable to do so. Someone like that would be the best option. Definitely not abortion.

    Offline Sede Catholic

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    « Reply #4 on: May 08, 2012, 01:50:02 PM »
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  • She MUST have her baby.

    She will deprive her baby of Heaven, if she aborts her baby.

    If she aborts her child, she will be murdering her own baby.

    Far, far worse even than that is that by murdering her baby, she will have prevented her baby from being

    Baptised.

    And if she prevents her baby from being Baptised, she will have prevented her baby from going to Heaven.

    Francis is an Antipope. Pray that God will grant us a good Pope and save the Church.
    I abjure and retract my schismatic support of the evil CMRI.Thuc condemned the Thuc nonbishops
    "Now, therefore, we declare, say, determine and pronounce that for every human creature it is necessary for salvation to be subject to the authority of the Roman Pontiff"-Pope Boniface VIII.
    If you think Francis is Pope,do you treat him like an Antipope?
    Pastor Aeternus, and the Council of Trent Sessions XXIII and XXIV


    Offline clare

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    « Reply #5 on: May 08, 2012, 01:51:18 PM »
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  • Offline Malleus 01

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    « Reply #6 on: May 08, 2012, 01:54:31 PM »
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  • Quote from: tradlover
    disclaimer,     this is not a real story just hypothetical.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Say a young 20 year old woman is walking on a street. Then a man with a gun comes to her and drags her into an alley and beats her up and then rapes her.   By the time she comes to her senses and seeks treatment they find that she had conceived due to the rape. Her doctor and friends tell her to abort the baby. The girl does not want to deal with the baby who is the product of a rape since it would remind her all the days of her life of that painful incident. so she is very sympathetic to the abortion idea due to the above circuмstances.

      Also she hoped to marry someday and wanted to preserve her virginity. Were she to marry should she then wear white?

            Also what are the arguments for or against the abortion decision under those circuмstances?


    Its a twofold argument.

    There are three lives at stake. The Rapist - the Woman and the Baby.  Two are Innocents.

    The woman should be allowed to live a normal life . She was raped by force. So for all intents and purposes - she can wear white. She has never given herself to a man.

    The Rapist deserves to be put in Prison.

    The Baby doesnt deserve the Death penalty for the Sin of his Father. In fact , since when has anyone's Child had to pay the price for the sin of his Father. Other than when Moses demanded Pharaoh release the Chosen people
     

    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    « Reply #7 on: May 08, 2012, 02:10:45 PM »
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  • Hard cases make bad law.

    Once we understand that life is a gift from God and that these issues are not in our hands, then we can start to see that hard cases like this are really just testing our resolve.

    NO! to abortion.




    Offline Zenith

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    « Reply #8 on: May 08, 2012, 04:15:06 PM »
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  • Quote from: tradlover
    disclaimer,     this is not a real story just hypothetical.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Say a young 20 year old woman is walking on a street. Then a man with a gun comes to her and drags her into an alley and beats her up and then rapes her.   By the time she comes to her senses and seeks treatment they find that she had conceived due to the rape. Her doctor and friends tell her to abort the baby. The girl does not want to deal with the baby who is the product of a rape since it would remind her all the days of her life of that painful incident. so she is very sympathetic to the abortion idea due to the above circuмstances.

      Also she hoped to marry someday and wanted to preserve her virginity. Were she to marry should she then wear white?

            Also what are the arguments for or against the abortion decision under those circuмstances?



    I believe any man who rapes a woman like this deserves to die.

    Now the pro-baby killing side will say that the baby should die though a rapist should not get the death penalty.So you have an evil perverted criminal who lives and an innocent child dies.

    Have you ever heard of post abortion syndrome? Well this is what leads women who have had an abortion to commit ѕυιcιdє, go into depression, take drugs, and turn into emotional, spiritual, and mental wrecks.

    Rape would be enormously traumatic. Now imagine a woman is deeply emotionally, and mentally scarred. So the woman is wreck and the answer is to add post abortion syndrome to her trauma.  That does not sound like a solution to me.

    Offline Zenith

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    « Reply #9 on: May 08, 2012, 04:21:37 PM »
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  • This rape discussion is a cop out has been done to death and is simply a way for the pro-baby killers to advance their evil agenda through emotionally charged arguments.

    The fact is that rape counts such a small percentage of abortions that it is almost not worth mentioning. The chances of a woman conceiving from rape are very slim because she is so traumatised.  

    Offline Caraffa

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    « Reply #10 on: May 08, 2012, 05:02:15 PM »
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  • Quote from: tradlover
    disclaimer,     this is not a real story just hypothetical.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Say a young 20 year old woman is walking on a street. Then a man with a gun comes to her and drags her into an alley and beats her up and then rapes her.   By the time she comes to her senses and seeks treatment they find that she had conceived due to the rape. Her doctor and friends tell her to abort the baby. The girl does not want to deal with the baby who is the product of a rape since it would remind her all the days of her life of that painful incident. so she is very sympathetic to the abortion idea due to the above circuмstances.


    St. Augustine says in the City of God, that a virgin who has been raped does not forfeit her chastity since she committed no sin.

    Though, I do not think it would be wrong for a person to be asked to be killed instead of raped. Isn't that what St. Maria Goretti did?

    Quote
    Also she hoped to marry someday and wanted to preserve her virginity. Were she to marry should she then wear white?


    Sure, or blue, the other color for bridal purity as it was in parts of the Middle Ages and the Old Testament.

    Quote
    Also what are the arguments for or against the abortion decision under those circuмstances?

    Two wrongs don't make a right.
    Pray for me, always.


    Offline s2srea

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    « Reply #11 on: May 08, 2012, 06:21:58 PM »
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  • Quote from: tradlover
    disclaimer,     this is not a real story just hypothetical.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Say a young 20 year old woman is walking on a street. Then a man with a gun comes to her and drags her into an alley and beats her up and then rapes her.   By the time she comes to her senses and seeks treatment they find that she had conceived due to the rape. Her doctor and friends tell her to abort the baby. The girl does not want to deal with the baby who is the product of a rape since it would remind her all the days of her life of that painful incident. so she is very sympathetic to the abortion idea due to the above circuмstances.

      Also she hoped to marry someday and wanted to preserve her virginity. Were she to marry should she then wear white?

            Also what are the arguments for or against the abortion decision under those circuмstances?


    If a father of 8 children, raped one of his daughters, should her siblings since be killed because they would remind her of her father for the rest of her life?

    Its an illogically weak position to take, and one which is done so for the sake of debate, more than anything. If someone asks this when debating abortion, as an attempt to play on emotions of all involved, turn the debate to the real reason the majority of mass unborn murder occurs

    Quote

    http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3711005.pdf
    TABLE 2. Percentage of women reporting that specified reasons contributed to theirdecision to have an abortion, 2004
    Having a baby would dramatically change my life 74
    Would interfere with education 38
    Would interfere with job/employment/career 38
    Have other children or dependents 32
    Can’t afford a baby now 73
    Unmarried 42
    Student or planning to study 34
    Can’t afford a baby and child care 28
    Can’t afford the basic needs of life 23
    Unemployed 22
    Can’t leave job to take care of a baby 21
    Would have to find a new place to live 19
    Not enough support from husband or partner 14
    Husband or partner is unemployed 12
    Currently or temporarily on welfare or public assistance 8
    Don’t want to be a single mother or having relationship problems 48
    Not sure about relationship
    Partner and I can’t or don’t want to get married 12
    Not in a relationship right now 11
    Relationship or marriage may break up soon 11
    Husband or partner is abusive to me or my children 2
    Have completed my childbearing 38
    Not ready for a(nother) child† 32
    Don’t want people to know I had sex or got pregnant 25
    Don’t feel mature enough to raise a(nother) child 22
    Husband or partner wants me to have an abortion 14
    Possible problems affecting the health of the fetus 13
    Physical problem with my health 12
    Parents want me to have an abortion 6
    Was a victim of rape 1
    Became pregnant as a result of incest <0.5

    Offline tradlover

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    « Reply #12 on: May 08, 2012, 08:29:20 PM »
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  • I wanted some apologetic answers to this moral question. Thanks!!

    Offline CathMomof7

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    « Reply #13 on: May 09, 2012, 09:25:16 AM »
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  • Quote from: tradlover
    disclaimer,     this is not a real story just hypothetical.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Say a young 20 year old woman is walking on a street. Then a man with a gun comes to her and drags her into an alley and beats her up and then rapes her.   By the time she comes to her senses and seeks treatment they find that she had conceived due to the rape. Her doctor and friends tell her to abort the baby. The girl does not want to deal with the baby who is the product of a rape since it would remind her all the days of her life of that painful incident. so she is very sympathetic to the abortion idea due to the above circuмstances.

      Also she hoped to marry someday and wanted to preserve her virginity. Were she to marry should she then wear white?

            Also what are the arguments for or against the abortion decision under those circuмstances?


    This is an interesting scenario, completely filled with emotion.  It is a scenario filled with fear, shame, loss, guilt, and hate.  In other words, this woman is considering abortion because she does not know how to deal with her emotions.  Of course, this is expected, well, because women are often guided by their emotions.

    However, the facts of the situation deserve to be known.  According to some research done in 1996, 5% of women who are raped become pregnant.  But, the devil is in the details.  Almost all of these circuмstances involve adolescents who are raped by a known, often related perpetrator.  Almost half of these young girls, never receive pregnancy related medical attention. Regarding the abortion statistics, a full 50% procure an abortion.  

    So in reality, most all of these pregnancy related cases, and that number is small, are due to either incest or a boy-friend of some sort.

    However, I don't think this is the scenario you put out for us.  You use the emotionally charged scenario of violent stranger rape, which is really only a small portion of rape incidents.  But we will go with your scenario.  

    A lot of research and self-reported surveys suggests that women who do become pregnant during a rape are often pressured or coerced by a loved one into having an abortion.  They are told that having the child will cause them to relive the traumatic event over and over.  However, of the women who actually do give birth to their children,  not a single one has regretted it and most of them said their child gave meaning to their lives and helped them heal.  

    Again, your question about this young woman hoping to marry and wear white is also an emotionally charged question, and not one born out of logic.  A woman who is raped is taken against her will.  It is quite difficult to cope with.  But when a young woman is a virgin and hoping to remain so until she marries, it is especially gut-wrenching.  How will she explain this to her fiance?  If she keeps it a secret, will he know on their wedding night that she is not a virgin?  Will he still love her or will he reject her because she is not pure?  

    These are emotional questions, wrought out of shame and guilt.  A good man, a good father, a good fiance, will seek to assuage his daughter/fiances feelings and love her more not make her fell worse!  Part of that would be to remind her that she indeed can wear white on her wedding day.

    Women WILL NOT have abortions if they have someone to support them.  Period.  It is true almost 100% of the time.  Women have abortions because the people they love the most tell them that murdering their unborn child will make life easier for them.  They think that no one will know their shame or their guilt.  They think it will go away.  So their family members say stupid things like, "I will support whatever decision you make."  Or, "It's best this way."  Or, "What kind of life do you think this child will have?"

    These are all lies of the evil one.  There is not ever a single circuмstance where murdering one's own child is a real solution to a problem.  Ever.  

    A woman in the circuмstance you presented needs loving people to tell her the truth and support her during her pregnancy and after the baby is born.  Some women might believe it necessary to offer their child for adoption.  This takes courage and encouragement.  Other women might find adoption more difficult than raising a child.  In this case, the woman might benefit from family support, or maybe even marriage earlier than planned so the child grows up in an intact family.  







    Offline CathMomof7

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    « Reply #14 on: May 09, 2012, 09:35:55 AM »
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  • Quote from: tradlover
    I wanted some apologetic answers to this moral question. Thanks!!


    Apologetic answers?  

    Murdering innocent people, regardless of age or living circuмstances, is a mortal sin.  

    A baby conceived in rape is not responsible for the rape and therefore can not be held guilty for any sin committed.

    Is it really that hard to determine?  Or are we still under the myth that unborn babies don't have souls and are therefore just a clump of tissue?  Or maybe we are Mormon and we believe this creature conceived during a rape doesn't have a pre-mortal soul, so therefore really is just a clump of tissue and there is no moral implications to "removing" it from one's body?

    I am sorry, but I don't see the moral difficulty in this scenario at all.