Author Topic: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?  (Read 1832 times)

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Offline Neil Obstat

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Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
« Reply #45 on: December 30, 2017, 12:42:55 AM »
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  • .
    In 1938 the Welles War of the Worlds radio drama evoked a number of emergency phone calls from listeners.
    .
    The War of the Worlds is an episode of the American radio drama anthology series The Mercury Theatre on the Air. It was performed as a Halloween episode of the series on Sunday, October 30, 1938, and aired over the Columbia Broadcasting System radio network. Directed and narrated by actor and future filmmaker Orson Welles, the episode was an adaptation of H. G. Wells' novel The War of the Worlds (1898 ). It became famous for allegedly causing mass panic, although the scale of the panic is disputed as the program had relatively few listeners.

    .
    People called their local police stations reporting they had seen space ships and Martians. Some complained they were suffering the effects of poison gas that they could smell in the air. The people making the complaints were sincerely convinced they were seeing and sensing these things. But exactly what it was that they saw and felt has never been determined, since there were no Martians, no space ships and no poison gas.
    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline cassini

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    Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
    « Reply #46 on: January 03, 2018, 03:06:27 PM »
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  • I tend to think that "ghosts" are really demonic spirits somehow allowed to visit Earth

    but I have heard such things as .. when they manifest, they are trying to get our attention bc they need our help

    I am wondering what catholics think?

    Paukla Haigh's Fairyland is Hell, Magic is demon power. 

    Chapter Two: The Devil and His Demons

    Doctrinal Foundations

    Fairies, elves, gnomes, nymphs, dryads, trolls, fauns, satyrs, merpeople, leprechauns, poltergeists, familiars, spirit-guides, yeti, Bigfoot, ET, aliens and all such denizens of the “Otherworld” have also inhabited this world since the creation of Adam and Eve. In fact, it all began with the Fall of the Angels.

    The Church’s definitive work on demonology, The Malleus Maleficarum (1486), states against those who hold that belief in devils and witches is “altogether illusory and fanciful are plainly heretical,” for disbelief in devils is founded upon absolute infidelity:

     ‘… because the authority of Holy Scripture says that devils have power over the bodies and over the minds of men, when God allows them to exercise this power, as is plain from very many passages in the Holy Scriptures. Therefore those err who say that there is no such thing as witchcraft, but that it is purely imaginary, even although they do not believe that devils exist except in the imagination of the ignorant and vulgar, and the natural accidents which happen to a man he wrongly attributes to some supposed devil, ... But this is contrary to true faith, which teaches us that certain angels fell from heaven and are now devils, and we are bound to acknowledge that by their very nature they can do many wonderful things which we cannot do. And those who try to induce others to perform such evil wonders are called witches. And because infidelity in a person who has been baptized is technically called heresy, therefore such persons are plainly heretics.’ (Dover ed, pp. 2-3)

     The fundamental point made here is that it is heresy to disbelieve in the Devil, or Lucifer-Satan – heresy in the baptized and, according to St. Thomas Aquinas, founded upon “absolute infidelity” or apostasy.

    Created on the First Day of Creation Week, in the Empyrean Heaven, the Angels were subjected to a test of their fidelity before they could be admitted to the Beatific Vision. Once bathed in the Vision of God’s glory and beauty, they could never be tempted again. They would be forever confirmed in Grace.

         Theologians do not agree as to the precise nature of the trial to which the Angels were subjected, but sound tradition has it that they were given to understand the great event of the Incarnation: that the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity would become Man, taking His Human Nature from the Immaculate Ever-Virgin Mary.

    Lucifer, one of the highest Angels of the heavenly hierarchy, and those who identified with him in his pride, refused to consent that the Word of God should so humble Himself as to assume human nature from the Woman, thus twice-lowering Himself to a status below that of the angelic. These rebellious Angels refused their homage and obedience to the God-Man Who was to come to Earth in the fullness of time. Most of all, Lucifer’s pride was enraged by the exaltation of the Woman who was to be the Mother of the Incarnate God, for homage from him was required to Her also as the Queen of Heaven with Her Son. In other words, Lucifer set himself in eternal opposition to the Plan of God for Creation.

    In light of the nature of his sin, it is clear that Lucifer’s followers are the great rebels and revolutionaries of history, always opposing the order established by God in the beginning and by His Church throughout history.

    Lucifer had pitted himself against the natural order of society even before the Incarnation, as we see in Cain’s rebellion against God’s law of fraternal love by murdering his brother.  Cain also rebelled against the natural agricultural way of life by building the first city and – again, against the natural law of paternity – naming it after his son. Nimrod’s defiance of God’s Sovereignty in building the Tower of Babel that aspired “to reach unto heaven” was undoubtedly inspired by Lucifer’s lust for power over all men in a centralized human authority. Since the founding of the Church in whom our Lord invested His Divine Authority, heretics and founders of sects even before the major rebellion of Luther in the 16th century, manifested Lucifer’s incessant activity against the Woman and Her Seed as God foretold in Genesis 3:15. Nor was Galileo free of satanic influence when he split, with the sword of his arrogance, the mind of man from faithful adherence to the Word of Divine Revelation.

    In the great trial of the Angels, it is believed that the greater number of the angelic host remained faithful to God and to His Plan for Creation. These were immediately received into the Heaven of the Blessed Trinity and confirmed in Grace. But Lucifer and his angels were cast down to the Earth and hell was created for them in its depths.

    The entire Angelic Host is described by St. Paul’s convert, Denis the Areopagite, as consisting of Nine tremendous Choirs grouped in three Orders: Assisting, Governing and Ministering. The first Choir is formed by the Seraphim, Cherubim and Thrones. These are the Angels who never leave the Throne of God, although God did appoint one of the Cherubim to guard the Gates of Paradise and the Tree of Life after Adam and Eve were expelled from Eden (Gen. 3:24). Perhaps this indicates how near to Heaven the Garden of Eden really was. According to St. Thomas, Lucifer was of the Choir of the Cherubim and these Angels are most excellent for their luminous knowledge. The Governing Angels are the Dominations, Virtues and Powers. These are delegated by God to oversee the actions of all the heavenly bodies and are appointed to assist the heads of nations and cities on Earth. Lastly, there are the Ministering Angels: Principalities, Archangels and Angels. These are appointed to guard and assist individuals on Earth. Amongst these are our Guardian Angels.

         These hierarchies of the Angelic Host are important for our theology of the demons because it is believed that some Angels fell from each of the three Orders though not from each of the Nine Choirs. Some theologians believe, for example, that none of the Seraphim fell because their very nature is fiery Love, whereas Lucifer, the Cherubim, noted for his knowledge, fell more easily into pride, according to St. Thomas.

        But also important for this subject is the nature of the Angels. They are pure spirits of tremendous intellect and will, far greater in power and purity than men in their rational nature. Franciscan theologian Fr. Valentine Long, says that all of them are “instant theologians.” Not only that, but as soon as there existed a Universe to contemplate, the Angels were also:

    ‘… instant astronomers. Our telescopes, probing its vast reaches, can only pick out the less remote stars; so that what we have learned of the cosmos remains infinitesimal compared to the magnitude of our ignorance. But we must not ascribe to the Angels our limitations. At a glance they comprehended it all.[1]

    And if “instant astronomers”, then also “instant” physicists, “instant” biologists, and scientists generally, seeing into the very constitution of natural creatures and understanding nature’s laws in a manner inaccessible to the human mind. In fact, this can be documented, as will be described later.

    All this being so, it is important to realize that when Lucifer and his rebellious legions fell from Grace, the love and sanctity that had been theirs and was to have been theirs in its fullness, was turned and transformed into implacable malice and hatred. Since they could not attack God directly, they first turned their evil intent towards their fellow Angels. The great War against Michael and the faithful Angels then began. Michael victorious, Lucifer and his legions were cast into the Hell that was then created especially for them. They now direct all their malevolence against mankind.  We human beings are destined to fill the thrones left vacant and forever forfeited by the evil angels. When all those empty places have been filled by human souls, the number of the Elect will be complete and the great Angel of the Apocalypse will proclaim that Time is no more. Then will God bring about a new heavens and a new Earth.



    [1] Fr. Valentine Long: The Angels in Religion and Art (1970), p.48.




    Offline cassini

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    Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
    « Reply #47 on: January 03, 2018, 03:08:53 PM »
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  • FAIRYLAND IS HELL CONTINUED.

    Meanwhile, the War that began in heaven continues on Earth. It is a War between the rebellious Angels, now Devils, and the Children of Mary, the Woman of Genesis 3:15 and Apocalypse 12. And that war, too, had its beginning, for theologians teach that many Angels fell from each of the Nine Choirs. Lucifer himself is believed to have been of the Cherubim, those Angels most noted for their intellectual power of knowledge. If Angels fell from each of the Nine Choirs, and if it is true, as we believe, that every Angel is a species unto himself as theologians teach, then the very number of Angels is countless and reflects, in their virtual infinity, the actual infinity of God and His perfections. Thus, those Angels that fell from the higher Choirs would be, as Devils, greater and more powerful than those that fell from the lower Choirs. And so, it is reasonable to believe that the Olympians and Titans of Greek and Roman mythology, the erotic gods of the East and the bloodthirsty heroes of Teutonic myths are those Angels, turned Demons, who fell from the higher Choirs while the fairies, satyrs, fauns and all other smaller spirits are those who fell from the lower and lowest Choirs. The countless number of Angels accounts for the innumerable forms that these demons, with God’s permission, are able to assume in the corporeal world.

         The Malleus Maleficarum, speaking of the operations of Incubi and Succubi, demons of impurity, says this:

     ‘… since some are believed to have fallen from every order, it is not unsuitable to maintain that those devils who fell from the lowest choir, and even those in that held the lowest rank, are deputed to and perform these and other abominations.’ (p. 29)

     The lives of the Saints abound with examples of demons taking various forms to torment holy men and women, as Joan Carroll Cruz explains in her account of St. Colette[1]: “The devil is an inventor of disguises, ...demons, followed by lesser devils, appeared ... in horrible forms” mostly of animals but also of “loathsome human guise”. (p.172) And again, the Saints teach us, the only sure way to tell these evil imps from our Guardian Angels and other ministering Angels of the faithful choirs, is by the love or the aversion of these creatures for the channels of Supernatural Grace, the Rosary, Holy Water, the prayers of the Church, and most of all, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and the Sacraments. As St. Martin of Tours said when Lucifer appeared to him as “an angel of light” (2 Cor. 11-14): “I will not recognize my Saviour unless I see Him with His Wounds and His Cross!”  St. Peter Martyr put the Devil to flight by demanding that he adore our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament; and St. Teresa of Avila put the demons to flight repeatedly with the sprinkling of Holy Water alone!

    We cannot combat the Devils by ourselves because of the three consequences of Original Sin in us: weakening of the will, darkening of the intellect and a strong inclination to evil. Against these, we need of necessity the helps that can come only by prayer and constant mortification. In addition to these, we have the powerful aid of the Sacramentals, as the Saints prove. But because of the consequences of Original Sin in us, we are most vulnerable to the suggestions of the world, the flesh and the Devil. It is precisely towards these weaknesses of our fallen nature that the Luciferian influences are directed. An example of the deceptive promises of Satan and his cohorts has just come to hand. It is an advertisement for a book by Gary Quinn, entitled May the Angels Be With You. The ad quotes the author as saying:

     ‘What are Angels? ... they are messengers. They don’t have opinions, they have no free will. They are completely realized beings with a single focus: to help us grow and thrive materially and spiritually. They will take any form that maximizes the effectiveness of the message. They may sometimes resemble human beings, communicate through a tune or song lyric, produce a sweet and evocative scent, whisper suggestions or instructions, or create in your mind’s eye an image they know you want to see...’

    The reviewer goes on to say that the message is designed to help everyone, even the most cynical, to attain goals thought out of reach – a better job, a new love, greater health, an end to money worries. “Your angels,” he says, “are waiting to guide you and help you succeed.”

    We recognize the demonic beneath the angelic disguise here first by doctrinal errors: all the Angels have free will, though they are now confirmed either in Grace or in evil as a direct result of the choice they made in the beginning. They are not “completely realized beings” for only God is that. The Angels, both good and bad, are still composed of potency and act, for only God is all and perfect Actuality, “completely realized” and perfect Being. Then there are the promises which contrast most clearly and strongly with our Lord’s warnings, invitations and promises in the Gospels. Our Lord does not promise us earthly health, wealth and power. Rather, He cautions us against these very worldly goods. He bids us take up our Cross of suffering in order to follow Him. May Jesus and Mary save us from the guidance of such as are described in this advertisement.



    [1] Angels and Devils, TAN Books, 1999.

    Offline 1st Mansion Tenant

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    Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
    « Reply #48 on: January 04, 2018, 12:43:14 AM »
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  • OK, this is OT, but since Gomer was brought up... Does anybody else seem to remember Jim Neighbors dying several years back? He always sang at the Indi 500, then he retired from doing it, was ill for a few years, and then died? And there were rumors that he died of AIDS?  When I read he died in Nov 2017  I  was really confused about it. Is it just me or one of these weird Mandela Effect stories I've heard about? 


    Offline Nadir

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    Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
    « Reply #49 on: January 04, 2018, 03:58:19 AM »
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  • It wouldn't be surprising if he died of AIDS. He "married" his long term male partner at the age of 82 and dies at 87. He made to an advanced (I was going to good) age though. But what's that do do with this thread? Mandela effect? what's that?


    Offline Jovita

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    Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
    « Reply #50 on: January 04, 2018, 10:06:58 AM »
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  • My parents also spoke about how certain family members would drop by after death to say goodbye, it's something you just feel and instinctively know is that person.
      


    My mother suffered a brain bleed and I was called from the hospital. It was 10pm. She was in another state. I packed a bag and was able to book a flight out the next morning. I went back to bed to get some rest. I was awakened by a very loud knock (three knocks in succession). Too loud for it to be the front door, it was as if it came from inside my bedroom. There was no one outside. I was alone at home. It was then I realized the knock was my mother, saying, wake up I am gone.

    .
    I have seen my guardian angel's shadow, out of the corner of my eye. My Angel has rescued me from death at least five vivid times.

    .
    When I was three I ran out into the street and I hit a car. That is the story my mom gave me. It was as if I bounced off the car. Only minor scrapes and bruises. She told me this after I told her I remember the gate was opened and I ran out hearing her calling to me. It's my earliest memory.

    .
    When I was about 12-13, our family was at a lake on the fourth of July. There was a lot of people. My younger sister and I were in the lake when suddenly she stepped into a drop-off. I called for help but no one did. So I dove in and from underneath pushed my sister towards the shallows. I remember the struggle and that I had run out of air and was drowning. I could see underwater but managed to walk out and sit with my little sister on the shore.

    .
    When I was a teenager just recently given a driver's license, I was driving home from work. My habit was to race out in front of other drivers as soon as the light turned green. On that day, I sat there after the light turned and remember thinking to myself, why aren't you moving? At that moment a white van ran the red going very fast. That is when I learned to look both ways before crossing even if the light is green.

    .
    I was working downtown as a young adult. After work the entire office it seemed waited at the crosswalk to get to the parking garage. I remember thinking the light had turned green to walk and stepped into the street. A car crossed my path seemingly right through me. I stepped back onto the sidewalk and saw the car just passed me away a bit down the street. I looked around at my co-workers and none of them saw what happened, they all seemed to be looking away. Weird. I remember getting to my car and thinking about what happened.
    .
    I met my guardian angel after a very bad car accident. A driver ran the red light while we were in the intersection. We were T-boned and spun around. A soft touch on my face was the side airbags. The seatbelts held us in our seats and because we spunned it seemed as were pressed into the seat. We were okay. Then I heard one of the witnesses say the driver poured out the alcohol they were drinking into the street. I completely lost it. I have an abhorrence to drunk drivers. Have lost family and friends to drunk drivers. I have no patience for them. I crawled out of my car and went straight to the driver intending to grab her hair and do great bodily harm. She hit me first with her car intending to kill me, was my justification. Well one of the witnesses, a woman too big to be normal, grabbed me in a big bear hug and said, it's all right honey, we are all alright. The Lord is with us tonight. That calmed me like nothing else. I just cried then and began to shake, I was in shock and it was very cold.

    .
    I sense when people have demonic presence. How they act or what they say exudes evil. But we should not fear evil, even though we walk through the valley of the shadow of death. The Lord is with us, just like my angel said.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
    « Reply #51 on: January 04, 2018, 10:55:18 AM »
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  • That's an excellent story, Jovita, about your guardian angel.

    I think that some guardian angels are better than others.

    I've never seen my guardian angel, but it has done a very good job of watching over me, as I've had a lot of near-misses regarding cars, too.

    I brought my non-Catholic niece to Mass (SSPX) occasionally about 10 years ago, when she was 7-8 years old. Her mom needed a break because she had an infant to look after, so she let me bring her other daughter to Mass. Anyway, my niece told me, back then, that she would often wake up at night to see a little girl watching over her, and that she liked her. She named this girl "Rosa." She also told me that when we were at Mass, that "Rosa" would sit next to her in the pew, wearing a white dress. I assumed that she was seeing her guardian angel.

    Offline Student of Qi

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    Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
    « Reply #52 on: January 04, 2018, 01:20:56 PM »
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  • That's an excellent story, Jovita, about your guardian angel.

    I think that some guardian angels are better than others.

    According to the teachings of the religious order Opus Sanctorum Angelorum, all angels are unique, have different amounts of power, and are all technichally each their own kind of "race" due to their individul differences in character and abilities. So, if in terms of raw power then yes, some are "better" then others.

    I'm also of the opinion that how much interaction and assistance your angel gives you is dependant on your personal devotion to them and your bond with them, whether you are conscious of it or not.

    My father has alwas from a young age had a great devotion to the angels, and his guardian angel especially. While I'm not going to write about the events, I will say my father has had his life clearly saved by his angel on more then one occasion.

    One story I WILL mention concerns my deceased Grandpa. You see, when he was dying we couldn't get him a priest... and all the rest of the family neglected it. He hadn't been to Mass in ages and even up to his death, but towards the end he frequently said the Act of Contrition with Grandma. One day he mentioned that a black priest came to give him the last rites, but no one knows any sort of priest or such even being at the hospice... So my question is if angels can give Extreme Unction just like they seem to be able to distribute Comunion?
    Many people say "For the Honor and Glory of God!" but, what they should say is "For the Love, Glory and Honor of God". - Fr. Paul of Moll


    Offline Miseremini

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    Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
    « Reply #53 on: January 04, 2018, 02:24:58 PM »
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  • When my grandson (now a grown man) was about 3, he got hold of a Werther's candy.
    It got stuck in his throat and he was choking.  He came running to me and for a split second I froze.
    He immediately turned and ran into the living room, (with me one step behind), and full force into the couch which was very firm.
    The candy popped out as he had given himself the Heimlich maneuver.  I immediately thought it was
    his guardian angel, and the family relates the story often giving credit to his angel.
    This is how grandmothers have heart failure.
    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]


    Offline graceseeker

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    Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
    « Reply #54 on: January 06, 2018, 01:04:04 PM »
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  • There is supposed 2b a demon in the Vatican, I think in t he library, that will not be exorcised. 

    God probably allows that in order to... well, who knows what the purpose might be?

    I learned this from a guy who wrote a book about the mysterious death of Pope JP I.. and he is quoting someone he interviewed so who knows how reliable this info is.

    has anyone here ever visited the Vatican? the library?

    I wish I could but I likely never will be able to go to Rome.. or anywhere else 

     

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