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Traditional Catholic Faith => General Discussion => Topic started by: graceseeker on December 06, 2017, 04:22:07 PM

Title: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: graceseeker on December 06, 2017, 04:22:07 PM
I tend to think that "ghosts" are really demonic spirits somehow allowed to visit Earth

but I have heard such things as .. when they manifest, they are trying to get our attention bc they need our help

I am wondering what catholics think?
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: Miseremini on December 06, 2017, 05:41:34 PM
Not sure of your definition of ghost but there are many accounts of souls from purgatory having to fulfill their purgatory time on earth.  Occasionally they are seen, as in a church, choir, monastery etc.
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: Meg on December 06, 2017, 05:54:24 PM
Well, demons certainly don't need our help, since they are set in their evil and cannot change, but there are accounts of souls from Purgatory who visit the living in hopes of receiving prayers to lessen their torment in Purgatory.

But there are situations which do not fit into either category, which cannot be easily explained. I have had the unfortunate tendency to "hear things," while my mom has the tendency to "see things." Not fun, I can tell you. I don't like to stay in any place that may have a reputation of being haunted.

I think that the Church has not ruled, in an exact manner, as to what all of these supposed hauntings and such like could be. If someone has a problem, it's best to seek the help of a good priest or bishop, IMO.

Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: Mega-fin on December 07, 2017, 02:12:00 PM
My understanding is that the tame “ghosts” are souls in purgatory, it’s the hauntings from horror movies that are demons. Generally the souls in purgatory want to remind others of the need for prayers, Masses, sacrifices, etc. 
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: Nadir on December 07, 2017, 10:23:14 PM
The tradition  with a small "t" of types of hauntings is this:

1. Non-intelligent
2. Intelligent:
             * Human: * Souls from Purgatory
                            * Souls from Hell
             * Demonic

Those from Hell are not necessarily malevolent: they may still be sent by God to warn the living or even to set right some wrong.

Of course God's saints and angels can also appear, but while spiritual I don't know that they'd be called "ghostly" phenomena.
Where did you find that "tradition"? 
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: graceseeker on December 09, 2017, 01:08:12 PM
Not sure of your definition of ghost but there are many accounts of souls from purgatory having to fulfill their purgatory time on earth.  Occasionally they are seen, as in a church, choir, monastery etc.
I'm talking about the ones that move objects, turn on lights and etc.. make things fall that shouldn't fall in someone's house
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: graceseeker on December 09, 2017, 01:09:18 PM
Well, demons certainly don't need our help, since they are set in their evil and cannot change, but there are accounts of souls from Purgatory who visit the living in hopes of receiving prayers to lessen their torment in Purgatory.

But there are situations which do not fit into either category, which cannot be easily explained. I have had the unfortunate tendency to "hear things," while my mom has the tendency to "see things." Not fun, I can tell you. I don't like to stay in any place that may have a reputation of being haunted.

I think that the Church has not ruled, in an exact manner, as to what all of these supposed hauntings and such like could be. If someone has a problem, it's best to seek the help of a good priest or bishop, IMO.
for some reason I am not afraid of manifestations. I guess I would be if they were dangerous but so far, I have never experienced anything that hurt anyone
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: Meg on December 09, 2017, 01:11:27 PM
for some reason I am not afraid of manifestations. I guess I would be if they were dangerous but so far, I have never experienced anything that hurt anyone

Do tell us about your experiences. 
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: graceseeker on December 09, 2017, 01:28:37 PM
Do tell us about your experiences.
one house I lived in yrs ago was purported to be the scene of seances and such like
I often heard things in the kitchen at night (when no one was in there) like falling stuff.. can't recall details but it happened all the time. One time I fell asleep on the couch and woke up w/ a start bc I felt something hairy-like on my fingers...
Another time I had a horrible dream about this huge man trying to harm me... I don't recall being totally asleep, may have been half asleep
and etc...
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: Neil Obstat on December 09, 2017, 04:26:39 PM
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I know a man who did not believe in ghosts, nor was he convinced that there is any such thing as a spiritual reality. He stayed overnight in the home of a friend who said she was hearing haunted noises in her house. So the man stayed up late sitting on the sofa in the living room, where he began to doze off after a while, but remaining conscious. Suddenly he was startled by the sound of a gong being rung by a hard stick hitting it. He arose and walked into the next room where a gong was mounted on the wall with a hard mallet attached, hanging by a rope. He took the mallet and struck the gong, to find the sound it made was identical to the one he had just heard while half-awake on the couch. Then the woman appeared at the top of the stairs asking, what's going on down there?
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The man explained what he had heard, and what he had done. The woman said she had heard both gong noises; the first one awakened her, when she arose to go see, and the second one happened right when she was emerging from her bedroom. He assured her he did not strike the gong the first time, only the second time. She said, "They're here."
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Then the man went back to the couch, and the woman returned to her bedroom, and before long the man heard and saw other similar things in the house that night. All in all, he changed his outlook on ghosts and the spiritual world in one night.
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The man reported, "No longer do I question the existence of a spiritual world, nor do I say that I believe in ghosts. I have personal direct experience that has shown me firsthand that there is in fact a spiritual world and that ghosts do in fact exist. For me, it's not merely a matter of belief."
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Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: Neil Obstat on December 09, 2017, 04:31:23 PM
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Padre Pio had frequent visits from souls who had been in Purgatory, and were on their way to heaven. They would stop by to thank him for his prayers and penances he had offered for their relief, saying that if it had not been for his help they would still be suffering in Purgatory. He greeted them like old friends meeting by the way, in passing.
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Sometimes other people nearby would hear the voices of the visiting souls, and sometimes they would not hear anything. But generally, no one could see the visiting souls on their way to heaven.
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Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: 1st Mansion Tenant on December 09, 2017, 05:32:32 PM
When we bought  our house there was a generally "creepy" feeling in the master bed and bathroom, especially the closet which would give off a bad odor at times. I had nightmares about this strange man just hovering above it and staring at me. A priest who we were hosting asked about it, and whether we had had the house blessed yet. (We hadn't had the chance yet) So he read prayers and blessed it before he left. And that took care of the problem.  
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: TKGS on December 09, 2017, 06:55:51 PM
I think most "hauntings" are either imagined by completely secular people or people who are truly mentally or spiritually disturbed, are completely made up by attention seakers, or are optical illusions caused by purely natural phenomena.

On the other hand, I also believe that demons do cause some events that are thought by people to be "ghosts".  I've never (personally) heard of a "ghost" that led someone to the Catholic faith.
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: Neil Obstat on December 09, 2017, 07:12:53 PM
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What about Marian apparitions? They have all brought many to the Catholic faith.
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Quote
I've never (personally) heard of a "ghost" that led someone to the Catholic faith.
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It's very common especially among non-Catholics, to think that they were ghost sightings.
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Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: graceseeker on December 12, 2017, 04:25:29 PM
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Padre Pio had frequent visits from souls who had been in Purgatory, and were on their way to heaven. They would stop by to thank him for his prayers and penances he had offered for their relief, saying that if it had not been for his help they would still be suffering in Purgatory. He greeted them like old friends meeting by the way, in passing.
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Sometimes other people nearby would hear the voices of the visiting souls, and sometimes they would not hear anything. But generally, no one could see the visiting souls on their way to heaven.
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didn't know that
I think things falling unexplainably implies malice meaning demons
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: Neil Obstat on December 12, 2017, 10:44:23 PM
didn't know that
I think things falling unexplainably implies malice meaning demons
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The story told about one day's happenings proves this out. 
What I said above was a summary................ 
The expanded version follows..................
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Padre Pio was in the Refectory with other monks in his community, seated at table. Suddenly he rose, away from his bowl of soup and made his way quickly to the front door. He opened it enough for his face to fit in the space between the door and the jamb. While he peeked through at something outside he nodded his head up and down as if in greeting someone. He raised his hand above his head and waved his fingers. The monks saw, and heard him speaking something but couldn't make out his words.
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As is common in monasteries, no one was speaking at table, but the monks, unable to ignore this strange behavior at the doorway, looked back and forth at each other with questioning glances. Gradually, they got up, first one, then another, then all the rest of them, but they did so quietly so as not to distract the Padre at the doorway.
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They stepped gingerly toward the door and tried to peek around him to see what was outside. As is the norm in refectories, there were no windows facing the path beyond the wall, so the monks had to crane their necks to peer 'round the person of the priest.
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Padre Pio continued to wave and nod, only now they could hear what he was saying. He was greeting some friends outside, and encouraging them on their way, assuring them of his approval and continued sentiments of joy, wishing them well on their journey. But try as they may, the monks behind him could not manage to see anyone outside. 
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In due time, he finished his odd farewell, and closing the door, turned to return to his simple meal, curiously ignoring the monks standing there in his real presence. This astonished them all to the effect that one monk grabbed the door handle and pulled it wide open while the others crowded behind him to see the view outside beyond in the way.
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They stared in disbelief, for this new and improved view added nothing to their understanding because there was simply nothing to see. No one was outside at all. The path was empty. They could see a good long distance down the way, with not a soul in sight. Certainly if anyone had been hearing the priest's voice a moment before they would still have been in view! Then they glanced at each other with far greater questioning countenances than they had had at table. This is when they noticed each other's mouth was open. As a group they all turned gawking toward the oblivious priest who had re-seated himself at table as if nothing were out of the ordinary.

They closed the door again, softly, and walked all together back to table facing the seated priest who was slowly and deliberately spooning his soup. They were as a bouquet of flowers or a small grove of trees planted in the midst of the room, quietly awaiting the action of a man. They were flowers in need of arranging; they were trees awaiting the pruner.
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The monk who had first arose from table and had re-opened the door haltingly spoke to the seated priest. "Padre Pio, to whom were you speaking outside the door?" There was a note of pleading in his voice as if to say, Dear father, we are in ignorance and we want to know: please teach us!
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He raised his eyes to squarely meet his questioner and frankly replied in a most offhand and calm manner, that it had been so-and-so and another (he mentioned their names). He returned to spoon and bowl. The monks shared more puzzled glances with no signs of recognition. Shoulders shrugged and hands turned open. The first monk spoke again, asking whether those should be names they ought to know. 
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Padre Pio put his spoon down and firmly replied with the very confident authority for which he was often known, saying that these men had been in Purgatory for a long time -- would have been there for yet much longer were it not for the prayers and penances accredited to their account through the monastery that surrounds your heads at this moment in time. He waved his hands and looked up to the ceiling and over to the walls, almost as if it were not dissimilar to the very Purgatory that had enclosed his friends only shortly before, nor was it any less real.

They had stopped on the way to heaven to render their thanks for Padre Pio's intercession. And the Padre had told them, "Until we meet again! Go with God."
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Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: Marcelino on December 13, 2017, 03:48:44 AM
I was talking to someone who decided to tell me about the spirits they talk to that they believe are ghosts of dead people.  I suggested that he be cautious and "test the spirits," as I think the Bible tells us to do that.  He's never gotten mad at me before, but he did then.  

I met someone else who told me about the spirit he talked to, which he believed to be the ghost of his dead father, who had died when he was a toddler.  Unfortunately, that spirit, after forming a profound connection with him, decided that he should murder his family.  He was so under the control of that spirit, that he didn't trust himself around his own family anymore and removed himself for their protection.  He didn't seem like a weak person to me.  So, I was impressed (in kind of a horrified way), by the power that spirit had gained over his will.  I would be very cautious.  


(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ca/78/25/ca7825ecec6c36f4d6e77ebcd10b8acd--horror-icons-classic-monsters.jpg)
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: graceseeker on December 13, 2017, 04:32:46 PM
I was talking to someone who decided to tell me about the spirits they talk to that they believe are ghosts of dead people.  I suggested that he be cautious and "test the spirits," as I think the Bible tells us to do that.  He's never gotten mad at me before, but he did then.  

I met someone else who told me about the spirit he talked to, which he believed to be the ghost of his dead father, who had died when he was a toddler.  Unfortunately, that spirit, after forming a profound connection with him, decided that he should murder his family.  He was so under the control of that spirit, that he didn't trust himself around his own family anymore and removed himself for their protection.  He didn't seem like a weak person to me.  So, I was impressed (in kind of a horrified way), by the power that spirit had gained over his will.  I would be very cautious.  


(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ca/78/25/ca7825ecec6c36f4d6e77ebcd10b8acd--horror-icons-classic-monsters.jpg)
yes, it is amazing how the spirit realm influences all of us. I feel I have a negative spirit just from being... well... around very awful people, some from the very beginning of my life 
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: Neil Obstat on December 13, 2017, 04:46:13 PM
yes, it is amazing how the spirit realm influences all of us. I feel I have a negative spirit just from being... well... around very awful people, some from the very beginning of my life
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Count yourself lucky to have recognized them for what they are before it was too late!
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It's so very important to protect our children from malevolent influence.
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Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: Neil Obstat on December 13, 2017, 04:51:28 PM
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Count yourself ...
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(https://s14-eu5.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcrossfitoneworld.typepad.com%2F.a%2F6a00d8341bf90553ef01a511d30a5a970c-pi&sp=5fb0955ad69d8d09baf8c1d6f87892f6)
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: Marcelino on December 15, 2017, 12:15:50 AM
yes, it is amazing how the spirit realm influences all of us. I feel I have a negative spirit just from being... well... around very awful people, some from the very beginning of my life
Yeah, I've noticed that some people seem to have this negative icky "aura" around them.  Tough when you can't avoid them!  On the other hand, some people are completely the opposite!  I think it's supernatural, not just mood.  Some people attract evil spirits and some attract good ones.  
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: graceseeker on December 15, 2017, 01:54:35 PM
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Count yourself lucky to have recognized them for what they are before it was too late!
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It's so very important to protect our children from malevolent influence.
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for sure.
There was this one great evil in my life when I was young and I didn't fully see it or understand it (though I felt it on some deep level) until I was much older. I  would not have begun to understand it even then if not for... hitting "rock bottom" as they call it in the 12 step programs, and waking up and smelling the coffee of how messed up my life was. I began to do a serious 4th Step and began to uncover a lot of stuff..
My family was Catholic (still are, I guess) and most of them were normal but there was this bad apple... and some bad apples really do spoil the whole bunch. This person corrupted my whole family w/ the evil... No, it wasn't molestation but there are... people who molest people's minds and hearts... and lives...
anyway, where was I?
hmmmmm
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: Neil Obstat on December 15, 2017, 06:31:13 PM
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I knew a priest who spent a lot of time in big cities. He said that when he would walk down the sidewalk in Manhattan there were a lot of people walking both ways, so he would be in a large crowd. But every so often he would get a feeling about someone who was walking nearby. He said that he could feel the evil that surrounds some, it's a feeling that cannot be ignored because it fairly demands attention.
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And this would be regarding someone he had never met and does not recognize, but it was the spirit of the person that was recognizable -- he was well acquainted with that spirit, and it was as if the wicked spirit could not contain himself for whatever reason. The priest could not say what it was precisely, but he had thought that the wicked spirit knew there was a priest nearby and therefore projected some kind of malevolent aura which some priests could sense, but not all priests. He said I should not think of it as a gift or a talent or some kind of holiness, but rather it is more of a curse. 
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He tried to use this sense for the good, but sometimes it was rather taxing because in Manhattan there are a lot of people in public that give off this impression of presence so just a routine walk down the street for this priest could become a taxing ordeal.
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He wasn't talking about seeing a "ghost" but he WAS talking about feeling the effect of a ghost's presence.
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Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: Marcelino on December 16, 2017, 01:39:00 AM
St. Michael!   :incense:
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: graceseeker on December 18, 2017, 12:31:18 PM
Yeah, I've noticed that some people seem to have this negative icky "aura" around them.  Tough when you can't avoid them!  On the other hand, some people are completely the opposite!  I think it's supernatural, not just mood.  Some people attract evil spirits and some attract good ones.  
i think if you don't attract evil spirits you are not a good Christian
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: Marcelino on December 19, 2017, 08:40:55 PM
i think if you don't attract evil spirits you are not a good Christian
I'm sure there's truth to that.  
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: graceseeker on December 20, 2017, 04:38:50 PM
I'm sure there's truth to that.  
Jesus said You will be hated by all because [of him]
St Paul said we have to undergo many hardships in order to enter Heaven.
being a Christian is very difficult in this Christ-rejecting world
You become a serious target of the devil when you love Jesus. I am sure you know a lot of that, but sometimes we all need a reminder. I, for one, fall into the "odd" thought sometimes that God is against me (that's how bad it is) so, yeh, we need to remember that it is the devil doing stuff (and he wants us to think it is God )
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: Student of Qi on December 20, 2017, 05:45:17 PM
In my family - yes, that includes the extended family - it is fairly common to have encounters with "ghosts". It seems to run in a certain strain of the blood... There are Gardian Angels, demons, and souls who are suffering.

There was this one instance back when I was about 7 years old. We were praying for a woman who's husband pulled the plug on her, even though she was regaining consciousnes and her faculties. I remember as clear as day, the front door (and the screen door) of our house blew open and there was a sudden blast of very strong wind blowing through. I went to the door and closed it again very hard, and the strong wind was so memorable because we never get stuff like that except maybe in hurricane season. A moment later my older sister who had been taking a nap woke up crying saying the woman had come in through the front door to say thank you and goodbye. It's just not something you forget.

My parents also spoke about how certain family members would drop by after death to say goodbye, it's something you just feel and instinctively know is that person. 
   I also knew a girl who related a similar experience she had with a cousin with whom she was close to. 

My father always tried to stay in the church until midnight for adoration on Holy Thursday. Those were interesting times, because we would be alone towards the end and yet, through the corner of my eyes I would seemingly see other people praying and kneeling in tge pews. But, if I looked there was nothing there. As long as one did not look directly at the supposed people you could "see" and feel them indirectly. I was told it's because there are always angels in adoration. 

After my Grandpa died Grandma moved out, and the house was empty. It was about the time of  All Souls Day maybe in 2014, we stopped at the house to check something (I guess) and eat lunch. As I brough the lunch box/ice box in from the truc I thought I saw someone sitting in one of the chaires grandpa always used in the living room. It was a black figuer, so presumed it was my brother, who was wearing a black coat that day. After setting the down the items I went to say something to what was thought to be my brother... but there was no one there. The scary part is that at that moment my brother came into the house from the back door. When I told my Dad and brother, my Dad said "You saw it too?" . That's when it became apparent it was real...

I feel sorry for people who have never had encounters with spirits amd profess to be non religious, atheists, etc.
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: Marcelino on December 22, 2017, 04:46:03 PM
Jesus said You will be hated by all because [of him]
St Paul said we have to undergo many hardships in order to enter Heaven.
being a Christian is very difficult in this Christ-rejecting world
You become a serious target of the devil when you love Jesus. I am sure you know a lot of that, but sometimes we all need a reminder. I, for one, fall into the "odd" thought sometimes that God is against me (that's how bad it is) so, yeh, we need to remember that it is the devil doing stuff (and he wants us to think it is God )

Yeah, I think a lot of people believe in what they call, "a punishing god."  Of course there's two types of people who say that:  one who just want to do whatever they want and two, those who see God like abusive parents, corrupt judges, degenerate leaders, debauched teachers and all decrepate authorities who often over-react/neglect them when they sin, make mistakes or need help.  

I think Satan, our flesh and The World will use that to try and get us to turn away from God.  Satan wants to drag us to Hell, our flesh wants to be free of God's Law and so does The World.  So, that evil triad will use scandalous things like that to decieve us.  

If God is unjust, then He doesn't deserve our fidelity.  If He is just, then He does.  So, we must remember that although people often treat us unjustly, God never does.  However, our own fears and resentments can corrupt our thinking and perceptions.  So we must be ever vigilant.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJlgio-UOng
Gomer Pyle, USMC - The Impossible Dream

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfHnzYEHAow
The Impossible Dream-Man of La Mancha
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: MyrnaM on December 23, 2017, 12:53:12 PM
Something really different happened to me, JUST THIS MORNING.  

Every morning I wake up and its still dark, outside, I like to sit on my couch with a cup of coffee and think about my morning prayers, that I myself have composed, they usually take about 30 minutes to finish unless I fall back to sleep in the middle of them.  

Today, I was there on the couch and I kept feeling a cold breeze on my face, it was really strange because of it although it was cold it was also comforting, and gentle; I wanted more and more of it.  It was like a warm sort of cold if that makes sense.  

I closed my eyes and just sat there very still and wondered ... what that was?  After a while, it went away, and I started my day.
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: Neil Obstat on December 24, 2017, 12:07:04 AM
Something really different happened to me, JUST THIS MORNING.  

Every morning I wake up and its still dark, outside, I like to sit on my couch with a cup of coffee and think about my morning prayers, that I myself have composed, they usually take about 30 minutes to finish unless I fall back to sleep in the middle of them.  

Today, I was there on the couch and I kept feeling a cold breeze on my face, it was really strange because of it although it was cold it was also comforting, and gentle; I wanted more and more of it.  It was like a warm sort of cold if that makes sense.  

I closed my eyes and just sat there very still and wondered ... what that was?  After a while, it went away, and I started my day.
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I think it was your guardian angel comforting you in your morning meditation but keeping you awake.
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It's best to remain wakeful while you meditate and your desire to avoid dozing off is being rewarded!
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It seems to me that your wanting more and more of it is like your angel wanting more and more of your meditation.
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Because to your angel, your prayers are like a warm sort of cold breeze -- it's a message for you.
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Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on December 24, 2017, 01:21:31 AM
I think people are possessed.  Sometimes they seem kind but they aren't.  I have been noticing many people using devil hand gestures in everyday conversation.  They make up excuse that is sign for love.  

It seems like people are being used by the devil to interfere with us during Christmas.  






Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: MyrnaM on December 24, 2017, 08:42:38 AM
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I think it was your guardian angel comforting you in your morning meditation but keeping you awake.
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It's best to remain wakeful while you meditate and your desire to avoid dozing off is being rewarded!
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It seems to me that your wanting more and more of it is like your angel wanting more and more of your meditation.
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Because to your angel, your prayers are like a warm sort of cold breeze -- it's a message for you.
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Thank you so much Neil, you will never know how much that means to me.
Merry Christmas to you and all your loved ones. 
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: Neil Obstat on December 24, 2017, 07:36:07 PM
Thank you so much Neil, you will never know how much that means to me.
Merry Christmas to you and all your loved ones.
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Oh, I have a pretty good idea already. Glad to be of service. It's nice to be appreciated!!  :farmer:
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And the Merriest of Christmases to you and yours, Myrna. You have a fortunate family, like I told you 5 years ago!!
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(You made my day!!)
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: Marcelino on December 25, 2017, 12:43:26 AM
I think people are possessed.  Sometimes they seem kind but they aren't.  I have been noticing many people using devil hand gestures in everyday conversation.  They make up excuse that is sign for love.  

It seems like people are being used by the devil to interfere with us during Christmas.  
I always wondered about that, but apparently the hand sign for "love you" involves the thumb sticking out and the hand sign for the "devil's horns" involves the thumb being bent over the two fingers brought into the palm.  

If that isn't enough, many people interpret the devil's horn sign to mean "rock on."  

I think it's been overused to the point of being meaningless.  Yet, it is still used in Wicca and they don't mean rock on and of course, Black Sabbath, the band that popularized it, certainly meant for it to have an evil meaning.  
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: graceseeker on December 27, 2017, 05:30:49 PM
Yeah, I think a lot of people believe in what they call, "a punishing god."  Of course there's two types of people who say that:  one who just want to do whatever they want and two, those who see God like abusive parents, corrupt judges, degenerate leaders, debauched teachers and all decrepate authorities who often over-react/neglect them when they sin, make mistakes or need help.  

I think Satan, our flesh and The World will use that to try and get us to turn away from God.  Satan wants to drag us to Hell, our flesh wants to be free of God's Law and so does The World.  So, that evil triad will use scandalous things like that to decieve us.  

If God is unjust, then He doesn't deserve our fidelity.  If He is just, then He does.  So, we must remember that although people often treat us unjustly, God never does.  However, our own fears and resentments can corrupt our thinking and perceptions.  So we must be ever vigilant.  


I didn't get the Gomer images and etc?
anyway, yeh. I don't believe God is degenerate or anything... except that, well, 2b honest I have had the thought that he is against me.. more than a few times here & there throughout life.. so maybe I can't say that I never thought  something along those lines.
Anyway... yeh, I sometimes think the devil disguises himself (well i know he does) and wants us to get angry at God for all the evil in our lives... But then on the other hand, who can say that God does this or doesn't do that?
I mean, if God wants to ... well, you know.. He caused Jesus to cry out
Why have you abandoned me?
which cry I believe was also what Jesus knew that we ourselves would cry out (we followers of him.. being persecuted)
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: graceseeker on December 27, 2017, 05:32:16 PM
I think people are possessed.  Sometimes they seem kind but they aren't.  I have been noticing many people using devil hand gestures in everyday conversation.  They make up excuse that is sign for love.  

It seems like people are being used by the devil to interfere with us during Christmas.  
those cheerful ones are the worst of all, usually.
I have an aversion to people who seem overly cheerful
I mean what does anyone have to be so cheerful about? abortion is legal, people are evil and hateful toward ea other... and Jesus does not seem  2b coming back too soon...
:-[
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: Marcelino on December 28, 2017, 12:07:52 AM
I didn't get the Gomer images and etc?
anyway, yeh. I don't believe God is degenerate or anything... except that, well, 2b honest I have had the thought that he is against me.. more than a few times here & there throughout life.. so maybe I can't say that I never thought  something along those lines.
Anyway... yeh, I sometimes think the devil disguises himself (well i know he does) and wants us to get angry at God for all the evil in our lives... But then on the other hand, who can say that God does this or doesn't do that?
I mean, if God wants to ... well, you know.. He caused Jesus to cry out
Why have you abandoned me?
which cry I believe was also what Jesus knew that we ourselves would cry out (we followers of him.. being persecuted)
Yeah, I think I get those feelings myself sometimes to, without thinking about it.  Of course, I correct myself, but I don't think I realized the connection, until reading your post.  Thanks!

Life is hard;  of this there can be no doubt.  

The Gomer thing is like, faith is always a struggle and I thought that was a good pep talk he gave him.  
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: graceseeker on December 28, 2017, 01:22:36 PM
Yeah, I think I get those feelings myself sometimes to, without thinking about it.  Of course, I correct myself, but I don't think I realized the connection, until reading your post.  Thanks!

Life is hard;  of this there can be no doubt.  

The Gomer thing is like, faith is always a struggle and I thought that was a good pep talk he gave him.  
thanks for implying that i w as helpful. I don't get feedback often on things i say.. kinda makes things more... makes sufferings more bearable to know that having dealt  w/ them this or that way helps someone else... or whatever
still dont get the Gomer thing  LOL
but that must have been some show he did that wasn't part of Gomer Pyle USMC?
what was the pep talk about? God?
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: alaric on December 28, 2017, 05:54:08 PM
I tend to think that "ghosts" are really demonic spirits somehow allowed to visit Earth

but I have heard such things as .. when they manifest, they are trying to get our attention bc they need our help

I am wondering what catholics think?
Personally , I have never seen anything paranormal or anything that could be considered other-worldy or "ghost" like. Ever.
Not saying that nothing doesn't exist, just nothing from my own personal experience from a sort of long time on this earth and been around a lot of it.Which to me is sort of strange being somewhat spiritual and a traditional catholic and I'm not doubting anyone else's expierence, it's just i've never seen or felt anything other than what exist around me with my own senses.
Truth is, I don't go looking for ghosts or demons and certainly don't dabble in the supernatural if I can help it. I actually have a lot of doubt at times that any of it is real anyway, sort of ironic being religious and still practicing my faith at the same time. I have every reason to have doubt and be an atheist, yet still cling to the hope in the eternal. 
Now that's faith! :)
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: Marcelino on December 28, 2017, 10:34:02 PM
thanks for implying that i w as helpful. I don't get feedback often on things i say.. kinda makes things more... makes sufferings more bearable to know that having dealt  w/ them this or that way helps someone else... or whatever
still dont get the Gomer thing  LOL
but that must have been some show he did that wasn't part of Gomer Pyle USMC?
what was the pep talk about? God?
Your welcome.  

I think Gomer was letting his fears rule over him and he needed some encouragment and inspiration.  
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: graceseeker on December 29, 2017, 03:12:44 PM
Your welcome.  

I think Gomer was letting his fears rule over him and he needed some encouragment and inspiration.  
could you go over that?
I mean, I don't normally get sound or CC to watch a video
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: Marcelino on December 29, 2017, 08:48:50 PM
could you go over that?
I mean, I don't normally get sound or CC to watch a video
Here's the transcript from youtube.  An elderly male officer approaches Gomer Pyle and asks him is there's something wrong... 
something wrong marine yes sir hey you
00:11
better get to bed boy sounds like you
00:13
got a bad cold
00:14
it ain't a cold oh then what is it
00:20
it's long story well I got lots of time
00:26
what's the matter well it was it was
00:33
this big Navy relief show tonight and
00:37
that's the whole story I got so scared I
00:40
lost my voice and I can't sing a Note. 
00:43
you know something friend, when I sat
00:47
down here it was because I felt sorry
00:49
for you but I'm not anymore
00:52
I'm really not, the ones I feel sorry for
00:55
are the people who were counting on you
00:58
sergeant Carter the audience they're the
01:02
ones you're letting down.  but I can't
01:04
help it
01:05
I'm frightened frightened right now it's
01:09
the biggest thing in my life. well maybe
01:12
so but I can't sympathize with you too
01:14
much. now you take him there (abraham lincoln)
01:18
he had a lot more to worry about than
01:20
facing an audience he had great
01:23
decisions to make and he must have been
01:25
frightened and unsure of himself many a
01:28
time but he didn't let it stop him from
01:31
doing what he had to do.  but he was a
01:33
great man and I'm no hero.  you know what
01:37
I figure a hero is it's a man doing the
01:40
job he has to do the best he knows how
01:43
you think about that. (gomer reads inscription on lincoln momunent)
02:21
four score and seven years ago our
02:25
fathers brought forth on this continent
02:28
a new nation conceived in Liberty and
02:34
dedicated to the proposition that all
02:37
men are created equal (his voice comes back) 
03:09
Sgt. Carter I got my
03:11
voice back!!  
...(gomer pyle enters the stage to sing "The Impossible Dream," from Don Quixote)
our next performer is
03:26
marine private first class Gomer Pyle
03:28
and so ladies and gentlemen I am
03:34
proud to present marine private first
03:37
class Gomer Pyle  (then he sings and impresses the orchestra and audience with his performance)  
To get the full effect, you should go to the library and watch it.  
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: Neil Obstat on December 30, 2017, 12:42:55 AM
.
In 1938 the Welles War of the Worlds radio drama evoked a number of emergency phone calls from listeners.
.
The War of the Worlds is an episode of the American radio drama (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_drama) anthology series The Mercury Theatre on the Air (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mercury_Theatre_on_the_Air). It was performed as a Halloween (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween) episode of the series on Sunday, October 30, 1938, and aired over the Columbia Broadcasting System (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CBS_Radio_News) radio network. Directed and narrated by actor and future filmmaker Orson Welles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orson_Welles), the episode was an adaptation of H. G. Wells (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._G._Wells)' novel The War of the Worlds (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_War_of_the_Worlds) (1898 ). It became famous for allegedly causing mass panic, although the scale of the panic is disputed as the program had relatively few listeners.

.
People called their local police stations reporting they had seen space ships and Martians. Some complained they were suffering the effects of poison gas that they could smell in the air. The people making the complaints were sincerely convinced they were seeing and sensing these things. But exactly what it was that they saw and felt has never been determined, since there were no Martians, no space ships and no poison gas.
.
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: cassini on January 03, 2018, 03:06:27 PM
I tend to think that "ghosts" are really demonic spirits somehow allowed to visit Earth

but I have heard such things as .. when they manifest, they are trying to get our attention bc they need our help

I am wondering what catholics think?

Paukla Haigh's Fairyland is Hell, Magic is demon power. 

Chapter Two: The Devil and His Demons

Doctrinal Foundations

Fairies, elves, gnomes, nymphs, dryads, trolls, fauns, satyrs, merpeople, leprechauns, poltergeists, familiars, spirit-guides, yeti, Bigfoot, ET, aliens and all such denizens of the “Otherworld” have also inhabited this world since the creation of Adam and Eve. In fact, it all began with the Fall of the Angels.

The Church’s definitive work on demonology, The Malleus Maleficarum (1486), states against those who hold that belief in devils and witches is “altogether illusory and fanciful are plainly heretical,” for disbelief in devils is founded upon absolute infidelity:

 ‘… because the authority of Holy Scripture says that devils have power over the bodies and over the minds of men, when God allows them to exercise this power, as is plain from very many passages in the Holy Scriptures. Therefore those err who say that there is no such thing as witchcraft, but that it is purely imaginary, even although they do not believe that devils exist except in the imagination of the ignorant and vulgar, and the natural accidents which happen to a man he wrongly attributes to some supposed devil, ... But this is contrary to true faith, which teaches us that certain angels fell from heaven and are now devils, and we are bound to acknowledge that by their very nature they can do many wonderful things which we cannot do. And those who try to induce others to perform such evil wonders are called witches. And because infidelity in a person who has been baptized is technically called heresy, therefore such persons are plainly heretics.’ (Dover ed, pp. 2-3)

 The fundamental point made here is that it is heresy to disbelieve in the Devil, or Lucifer-Satan – heresy in the baptized and, according to St. Thomas Aquinas, founded upon “absolute infidelity” or apostasy.

Created on the First Day of Creation Week, in the Empyrean Heaven, the Angels were subjected to a test of their fidelity before they could be admitted to the Beatific Vision. Once bathed in the Vision of God’s glory and beauty, they could never be tempted again. They would be forever confirmed in Grace.

     Theologians do not agree as to the precise nature of the trial to which the Angels were subjected, but sound tradition has it that they were given to understand the great event of the Incarnation: that the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity would become Man, taking His Human Nature from the Immaculate Ever-Virgin Mary.

Lucifer, one of the highest Angels of the heavenly hierarchy, and those who identified with him in his pride, refused to consent that the Word of God should so humble Himself as to assume human nature from the Woman, thus twice-lowering Himself to a status below that of the angelic. These rebellious Angels refused their homage and obedience to the God-Man Who was to come to Earth in the fullness of time. Most of all, Lucifer’s pride was enraged by the exaltation of the Woman who was to be the Mother of the Incarnate God, for homage from him was required to Her also as the Queen of Heaven with Her Son. In other words, Lucifer set himself in eternal opposition to the Plan of God for Creation.

In light of the nature of his sin, it is clear that Lucifer’s followers are the great rebels and revolutionaries of history, always opposing the order established by God in the beginning and by His Church throughout history.

Lucifer had pitted himself against the natural order of society even before the Incarnation, as we see in Cain’s rebellion against God’s law of fraternal love by murdering his brother.  Cain also rebelled against the natural agricultural way of life by building the first city and – again, against the natural law of paternity – naming it after his son. Nimrod’s defiance of God’s Sovereignty in building the Tower of Babel that aspired “to reach unto heaven” was undoubtedly inspired by Lucifer’s lust for power over all men in a centralized human authority. Since the founding of the Church in whom our Lord invested His Divine Authority, heretics and founders of sects even before the major rebellion of Luther in the 16th century, manifested Lucifer’s incessant activity against the Woman and Her Seed as God foretold in Genesis 3:15. Nor was Galileo free of satanic influence when he split, with the sword of his arrogance, the mind of man from faithful adherence to the Word of Divine Revelation.

In the great trial of the Angels, it is believed that the greater number of the angelic host remained faithful to God and to His Plan for Creation. These were immediately received into the Heaven of the Blessed Trinity and confirmed in Grace. But Lucifer and his angels were cast down to the Earth and hell was created for them in its depths.

The entire Angelic Host is described by St. Paul’s convert, Denis the Areopagite, as consisting of Nine tremendous Choirs grouped in three Orders: Assisting, Governing and Ministering. The first Choir is formed by the Seraphim, Cherubim and Thrones. These are the Angels who never leave the Throne of God, although God did appoint one of the Cherubim to guard the Gates of Paradise and the Tree of Life after Adam and Eve were expelled from Eden (Gen. 3:24). Perhaps this indicates how near to Heaven the Garden of Eden really was. According to St. Thomas, Lucifer was of the Choir of the Cherubim and these Angels are most excellent for their luminous knowledge. The Governing Angels are the Dominations, Virtues and Powers. These are delegated by God to oversee the actions of all the heavenly bodies and are appointed to assist the heads of nations and cities on Earth. Lastly, there are the Ministering Angels: Principalities, Archangels and Angels. These are appointed to guard and assist individuals on Earth. Amongst these are our Guardian Angels.

     These hierarchies of the Angelic Host are important for our theology of the demons because it is believed that some Angels fell from each of the three Orders though not from each of the Nine Choirs. Some theologians believe, for example, that none of the Seraphim fell because their very nature is fiery Love, whereas Lucifer, the Cherubim, noted for his knowledge, fell more easily into pride, according to St. Thomas.

    But also important for this subject is the nature of the Angels. They are pure spirits of tremendous intellect and will, far greater in power and purity than men in their rational nature. Franciscan theologian Fr. Valentine Long, says that all of them are “instant theologians.” Not only that, but as soon as there existed a Universe to contemplate, the Angels were also:

‘… instant astronomers. Our telescopes, probing its vast reaches, can only pick out the less remote stars; so that what we have learned of the cosmos remains infinitesimal compared to the magnitude of our ignorance. But we must not ascribe to the Angels our limitations. At a glance they comprehended it all.[1] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/Paula's%20Fairy%20Book%20(2).doc#_ftn1)

And if “instant astronomers”, then also “instant” physicists, “instant” biologists, and scientists generally, seeing into the very constitution of natural creatures and understanding nature’s laws in a manner inaccessible to the human mind. In fact, this can be documented, as will be described later.

All this being so, it is important to realize that when Lucifer and his rebellious legions fell from Grace, the love and sanctity that had been theirs and was to have been theirs in its fullness, was turned and transformed into implacable malice and hatred. Since they could not attack God directly, they first turned their evil intent towards their fellow Angels. The great War against Michael and the faithful Angels then began. Michael victorious, Lucifer and his legions were cast into the Hell that was then created especially for them. They now direct all their malevolence against mankind.  We human beings are destined to fill the thrones left vacant and forever forfeited by the evil angels. When all those empty places have been filled by human souls, the number of the Elect will be complete and the great Angel of the Apocalypse will proclaim that Time is no more. Then will God bring about a new heavens and a new Earth.



[1] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/Paula's%20Fairy%20Book%20(2).doc#_ftnref1) Fr. Valentine Long: The Angels in Religion and Art (1970), p.48.


Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: cassini on January 03, 2018, 03:08:53 PM
FAIRYLAND IS HELL CONTINUED.

Meanwhile, the War that began in heaven continues on Earth. It is a War between the rebellious Angels, now Devils, and the Children of Mary, the Woman of Genesis 3:15 and Apocalypse 12. And that war, too, had its beginning, for theologians teach that many Angels fell from each of the Nine Choirs. Lucifer himself is believed to have been of the Cherubim, those Angels most noted for their intellectual power of knowledge. If Angels fell from each of the Nine Choirs, and if it is true, as we believe, that every Angel is a species unto himself as theologians teach, then the very number of Angels is countless and reflects, in their virtual infinity, the actual infinity of God and His perfections. Thus, those Angels that fell from the higher Choirs would be, as Devils, greater and more powerful than those that fell from the lower Choirs. And so, it is reasonable to believe that the Olympians and Titans of Greek and Roman mythology, the erotic gods of the East and the bloodthirsty heroes of Teutonic myths are those Angels, turned Demons, who fell from the higher Choirs while the fairies, satyrs, fauns and all other smaller spirits are those who fell from the lower and lowest Choirs. The countless number of Angels accounts for the innumerable forms that these demons, with God’s permission, are able to assume in the corporeal world.

     The Malleus Maleficarum, speaking of the operations of Incubi and Succubi, demons of impurity, says this:

 ‘… since some are believed to have fallen from every order, it is not unsuitable to maintain that those devils who fell from the lowest choir, and even those in that held the lowest rank, are deputed to and perform these and other abominations.’ (p. 29)

 The lives of the Saints abound with examples of demons taking various forms to torment holy men and women, as Joan Carroll Cruz explains in her account of St. Colette[1] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/Paula's%20Fairy%20Book%20(2).doc#_ftn1): “The devil is an inventor of disguises, ...demons, followed by lesser devils, appeared ... in horrible forms” mostly of animals but also of “loathsome human guise”. (p.172) And again, the Saints teach us, the only sure way to tell these evil imps from our Guardian Angels and other ministering Angels of the faithful choirs, is by the love or the aversion of these creatures for the channels of Supernatural Grace, the Rosary, Holy Water, the prayers of the Church, and most of all, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and the Sacraments. As St. Martin of Tours said when Lucifer appeared to him as “an angel of light” (2 Cor. 11-14): “I will not recognize my Saviour unless I see Him with His Wounds and His Cross!”  St. Peter Martyr put the Devil to flight by demanding that he adore our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament; and St. Teresa of Avila put the demons to flight repeatedly with the sprinkling of Holy Water alone!

We cannot combat the Devils by ourselves because of the three consequences of Original Sin in us: weakening of the will, darkening of the intellect and a strong inclination to evil. Against these, we need of necessity the helps that can come only by prayer and constant mortification. In addition to these, we have the powerful aid of the Sacramentals, as the Saints prove. But because of the consequences of Original Sin in us, we are most vulnerable to the suggestions of the world, the flesh and the Devil. It is precisely towards these weaknesses of our fallen nature that the Luciferian influences are directed. An example of the deceptive promises of Satan and his cohorts has just come to hand. It is an advertisement for a book by Gary Quinn, entitled May the Angels Be With You. The ad quotes the author as saying:

 ‘What are Angels? ... they are messengers. They don’t have opinions, they have no free will. They are completely realized beings with a single focus: to help us grow and thrive materially and spiritually. They will take any form that maximizes the effectiveness of the message. They may sometimes resemble human beings, communicate through a tune or song lyric, produce a sweet and evocative scent, whisper suggestions or instructions, or create in your mind’s eye an image they know you want to see...’

The reviewer goes on to say that the message is designed to help everyone, even the most cynical, to attain goals thought out of reach – a better job, a new love, greater health, an end to money worries. “Your angels,” he says, “are waiting to guide you and help you succeed.”

We recognize the demonic beneath the angelic disguise here first by doctrinal errors: all the Angels have free will, though they are now confirmed either in Grace or in evil as a direct result of the choice they made in the beginning. They are not “completely realized beings” for only God is that. The Angels, both good and bad, are still composed of potency and act, for only God is all and perfect Actuality, “completely realized” and perfect Being. Then there are the promises which contrast most clearly and strongly with our Lord’s warnings, invitations and promises in the Gospels. Our Lord does not promise us earthly health, wealth and power. Rather, He cautions us against these very worldly goods. He bids us take up our Cross of suffering in order to follow Him. May Jesus and Mary save us from the guidance of such as are described in this advertisement.



[1] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/Paula's%20Fairy%20Book%20(2).doc#_ftnref1) Angels and Devils, TAN Books, 1999.
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: 1st Mansion Tenant on January 04, 2018, 12:43:14 AM
OK, this is OT, but since Gomer was brought up... Does anybody else seem to remember Jim Neighbors dying several years back? He always sang at the Indi 500, then he retired from doing it, was ill for a few years, and then died? And there were rumors that he died of AIDS?  When I read he died in Nov 2017  I  was really confused about it. Is it just me or one of these weird Mandela Effect stories I've heard about? 

Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: Nadir on January 04, 2018, 03:58:19 AM
It wouldn't be surprising if he died of AIDS. He "married" his long term male partner at the age of 82 and dies at 87. He made to an advanced (I was going to good) age though. But what's that do do with this thread? Mandela effect? what's that?
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: Jovita on January 04, 2018, 10:06:58 AM
My parents also spoke about how certain family members would drop by after death to say goodbye, it's something you just feel and instinctively know is that person.
  


My mother suffered a brain bleed and I was called from the hospital. It was 10pm. She was in another state. I packed a bag and was able to book a flight out the next morning. I went back to bed to get some rest. I was awakened by a very loud knock (three knocks in succession). Too loud for it to be the front door, it was as if it came from inside my bedroom. There was no one outside. I was alone at home. It was then I realized the knock was my mother, saying, wake up I am gone.

.
I have seen my guardian angel's shadow, out of the corner of my eye. My Angel has rescued me from death at least five vivid times.

.
When I was three I ran out into the street and I hit a car. That is the story my mom gave me. It was as if I bounced off the car. Only minor scrapes and bruises. She told me this after I told her I remember the gate was opened and I ran out hearing her calling to me. It's my earliest memory.

.
When I was about 12-13, our family was at a lake on the fourth of July. There was a lot of people. My younger sister and I were in the lake when suddenly she stepped into a drop-off. I called for help but no one did. So I dove in and from underneath pushed my sister towards the shallows. I remember the struggle and that I had run out of air and was drowning. I could see underwater but managed to walk out and sit with my little sister on the shore.

.
When I was a teenager just recently given a driver's license, I was driving home from work. My habit was to race out in front of other drivers as soon as the light turned green. On that day, I sat there after the light turned and remember thinking to myself, why aren't you moving? At that moment a white van ran the red going very fast. That is when I learned to look both ways before crossing even if the light is green.

.
I was working downtown as a young adult. After work the entire office it seemed waited at the crosswalk to get to the parking garage. I remember thinking the light had turned green to walk and stepped into the street. A car crossed my path seemingly right through me. I stepped back onto the sidewalk and saw the car just passed me away a bit down the street. I looked around at my co-workers and none of them saw what happened, they all seemed to be looking away. Weird. I remember getting to my car and thinking about what happened.
.
I met my guardian angel after a very bad car accident. A driver ran the red light while we were in the intersection. We were T-boned and spun around. A soft touch on my face was the side airbags. The seatbelts held us in our seats and because we spunned it seemed as were pressed into the seat. We were okay. Then I heard one of the witnesses say the driver poured out the alcohol they were drinking into the street. I completely lost it. I have an abhorrence to drunk drivers. Have lost family and friends to drunk drivers. I have no patience for them. I crawled out of my car and went straight to the driver intending to grab her hair and do great bodily harm. She hit me first with her car intending to kill me, was my justification. Well one of the witnesses, a woman too big to be normal, grabbed me in a big bear hug and said, it's all right honey, we are all alright. The Lord is with us tonight. That calmed me like nothing else. I just cried then and began to shake, I was in shock and it was very cold.

.
I sense when people have demonic presence. How they act or what they say exudes evil. But we should not fear evil, even though we walk through the valley of the shadow of death. The Lord is with us, just like my angel said.
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: Meg on January 04, 2018, 10:55:18 AM
That's an excellent story, Jovita, about your guardian angel.

I think that some guardian angels are better than others.

I've never seen my guardian angel, but it has done a very good job of watching over me, as I've had a lot of near-misses regarding cars, too.

I brought my non-Catholic niece to Mass (SSPX) occasionally about 10 years ago, when she was 7-8 years old. Her mom needed a break because she had an infant to look after, so she let me bring her other daughter to Mass. Anyway, my niece told me, back then, that she would often wake up at night to see a little girl watching over her, and that she liked her. She named this girl "Rosa." She also told me that when we were at Mass, that "Rosa" would sit next to her in the pew, wearing a white dress. I assumed that she was seeing her guardian angel.
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: Student of Qi on January 04, 2018, 01:20:56 PM
That's an excellent story, Jovita, about your guardian angel.

I think that some guardian angels are better than others.

According to the teachings of the religious order Opus Sanctorum Angelorum, all angels are unique, have different amounts of power, and are all technichally each their own kind of "race" due to their individul differences in character and abilities. So, if in terms of raw power then yes, some are "better" then others.

I'm also of the opinion that how much interaction and assistance your angel gives you is dependant on your personal devotion to them and your bond with them, whether you are conscious of it or not.

My father has alwas from a young age had a great devotion to the angels, and his guardian angel especially. While I'm not going to write about the events, I will say my father has had his life clearly saved by his angel on more then one occasion.

One story I WILL mention concerns my deceased Grandpa. You see, when he was dying we couldn't get him a priest... and all the rest of the family neglected it. He hadn't been to Mass in ages and even up to his death, but towards the end he frequently said the Act of Contrition with Grandma. One day he mentioned that a black priest came to give him the last rites, but no one knows any sort of priest or such even being at the hospice... So my question is if angels can give Extreme Unction just like they seem to be able to distribute Comunion?
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: Miseremini on January 04, 2018, 02:24:58 PM
When my grandson (now a grown man) was about 3, he got hold of a Werther's candy.
It got stuck in his throat and he was choking.  He came running to me and for a split second I froze.
He immediately turned and ran into the living room, (with me one step behind), and full force into the couch which was very firm.
The candy popped out as he had given himself the Heimlich maneuver.  I immediately thought it was
his guardian angel, and the family relates the story often giving credit to his angel.
This is how grandmothers have heart failure.
Title: Re: what do you believe about ghosts? demons?
Post by: graceseeker on January 06, 2018, 01:04:04 PM
There is supposed 2b a demon in the Vatican, I think in t he library, that will not be exorcised. 

God probably allows that in order to... well, who knows what the purpose might be?

I learned this from a guy who wrote a book about the mysterious death of Pope JP I.. and he is quoting someone he interviewed so who knows how reliable this info is.

has anyone here ever visited the Vatican? the library?

I wish I could but I likely never will be able to go to Rome.. or anywhere else