Author Topic: What do FEers, BOD deniers, and dogmatic anti-sedevacantists have in common?  (Read 1717 times)

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Offline Recusant Sede

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  • Typical liberal response. Lay blame using the tactics you employ.
    You see, liberals trust their own opinions over the authorized authorities (is the redundant?) whom God placed over them. Now, be a big girl and look in the mirror.

    Offline happenby

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  • Now, please explain how I employ the same tactics....
    Saying that we interpret scripture our own way.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  I post quotes from Fathers, Doctors, Popes, saints and ancients like Moses, Enoch, Cosmas, St. Jerome, St. John Chrysostom, St. Robert Bellarmine, Bishop Severian of Gabala, Methodius and scripture.  Blaming flat earthers for the fact that scripture and the Fathers agree on flat geocentric earth is like blaming the Pope for being Catholic.  Ridiculous.  


    Offline happenby

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  • Further, you employ disparaging comments rather than content.  A useless endeavor.

    Offline Recusant Sede

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  • Saying that we interpret scripture our own way.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  I post quotes from Fathers, Doctors, Popes, saints and ancients like Moses, Enoch, Cosmas, St. Jerome, St. John Chrysostom, St. Robert Bellarmine, Bishop Severian of Gabala, Methodius and scripture.  Blaming flat earthers for the fact that scripture and the Fathers agree on flat geocentric earth is like blaming the Pope for being Catholic.  Ridiculous.  
    1) I don’t believe that the Church has ever raised to the level of dogma that the Earth is a globe.
    2) I don’t consider those who believe in a FE to be outside the Church because of #1, however I do consider then extremely gullible people.
    3) I do believe in the geocentric model, but I don’t believe that one is a heretic if he doubts or denies it.
    4) I question your interpretation of what the authorities you cite wrote, so please cite them.
    5) Even if it is unquestionably true that a few of them believed in a FE, the vast majority disagrees.

    Offline happenby

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  • 1) I don’t believe that the Church has ever raised to the level of dogma that the Earth is a globe.
    2) I don’t consider those who believe in a FE to be outside the Church because of #1, however I do consider then extremely gullible people.
    3) I do believe in the geocentric model, but I don’t believe that one is a heretic if he doubts or denies it.
    4) I question your interpretation of what the authorities you cite wrote, so please cite them.
    5) Even if it is unquestionably true that a few of them believed in a FE, the vast majority disagrees.
    "Major est Scripturae auctoritas quam omnis humani ingenii capacitas."  "Nothing is to be accepted save on the authority of Scripture, since greater is that authority than all the powers of the human mind."  --St. Augustine, Commentary on the Book of Genesis


    Online Neil Obstat

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  • .
    The Church has not raised to a dogma the specific gravity of lead, potassium or carbon, either.
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    Does that mean lead, potassium or carbon do not have specific gravity?

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    I don’t believe that the Church has ever raised to the level of dogma that the Earth is a globe.
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    The Church has not raised to a dogma the thermal conductivity of diamond or silver, either.
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    Tell a jeweler that he cannot use thermal conductivity to check for the authenticity of those things.
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    He'll be happy to sell you cubic zirconia at the price of diamonds and pewter at the price of silver.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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  • What is obvious to a rational and objective person is the fact that all three groups prefer *their* own interpretation of Scripture, tradition, and the Church’s councils to the common opinion (sometimes unanimous opinion) of what the Church’s experts (Popes, theologians, Doctors) teach.
    In a word...PRIDE.

    Nah.  FE is not even a theological opinion, but a scientific one, so it's really outside the scope of Popes, theologians, Doctors, etc.  None of these Catholic authorities have ever taught that the earth is a sphere.  As for rejection of BoD, that's indeed counter to the popular opinion, but that doesn't mean it's wrong.  Now, the dogmatic anti-sedevacantists -- you're actually quite mistaken on that one.  Theologians agree that the Universal Church cannot accept a false pope, so YOU are running counter-current on that one.

    If I've seen anyone who's guilty of pride, it's really the dogmatic sedevacantists; they're BY FAR the worst.

    Online Neil Obstat

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  • Nah.  FE is not even a theological opinion, but a scientific one, so it's really outside the scope of Popes, theologians, Doctors, etc. 
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    Flat-earthism is an UNscientific opinion. There is no evidence for it.
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    And flat-earthers refuse to make deliberate, controlled observations of reality.
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    They all worship their false-god-golden-calf pipe dream, which is nonsense.
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     None of these Catholic authorities have ever taught that the earth is a sphere.  
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    Why should Catholic authorities teach that the earth is a sphere? 
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    Anyone with two eyes and a thinking mind can know that's true -- we don't need the Church for that.
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    The Church is here to teach on consequential matters of faith, not what we can observe with our eyes and reason with simple logic.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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  • Sedevacantists like Recusant refuse to see the contradiction of claiming, on the one hand, that the consensus of theologians is effectively infallible and a proximate rule of faith while, on the other hand, asserting that the consensus of all the Church's bishops teaching the Universal Church in Ecumenical Council failed.  So theologians can't be wrong while the entire Ecclesia Docens, the world's bishops, can teach heresy and defect en masse.  Anti-BoD sedevacantists also claim that heretical ecclesiology is the chief of Vatican II's errors while at the same time holding the same ecclesiology themselves in their obsessive neurotic attack against Father Feeney, the only man who REALLY saw what was happening in the Church.  Sedevacantists champion the cause of the Heresiarch Cushing over the faithful Traditional Father Feeney.

    Offline Ladislaus

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  • .
    Flat-earthism is an UNscientific opinion. There is no evidence for it.
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    My point is that it's a question of science and not theology.  Pope Leo XIII taught that even if the Church Fathers were unanimous on a point of science, that was not to be taken as a matter of faith and was subject to correction.

    Online Neil Obstat

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  • My point is that it's a question of science and not theology.  Pope Leo XIII taught that even if the Church Fathers were unanimous on a point of science, that was not to be taken as a matter of faith and was subject to correction.
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    Pope Leo XIII had a lot of challenges in his day. Somehow he managed to survive the storm. His was the age when Darwin's worldly success was running rampant, and apparently it was simply not the time for the Pope to make definitive pronouncements on that score. He would have been a good one to do it. That could have saved us a lot of problems. Perhaps it was not God's will that the question be settled so soon. Because evolution isn't "scientific" either.
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    It's really disappointing to see Catholics getting physical reality and our understanding of it mixed up with theology and morality.
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    Online Neil Obstat

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  • Sedevacantists like Recusant refuse to see the contradiction of claiming, on the one hand, that the consensus of theologians is effectively infallible and a proximate rule of faith while, on the other hand, asserting that the consensus of all the Church's bishops teaching the Universal Church in Ecumenical Council failed.  So theologians can't be wrong while the entire Ecclesia Docens, the world's bishops, can teach heresy and defect en masse.  Anti-BoD sedevacantists also claim that heretical ecclesiology is the chief of Vatican II's errors while at the same time holding the same ecclesiology themselves in their obsessive neurotic attack against Father Feeney, the only man who REALLY saw what was happening in the Church.  Sedevacantists champion the cause of the Heresiarch Cushing over the faithful Traditional Father Feeney.

    Nice.
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    Sedes backing the heresiarch Cushing, and probably not even aware of it, eh?
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    Maybe they ought to become informed -- by us!
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    Offline Recusant Sede

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  • Sedevacantists like Recusant refuse to see the contradiction of claiming, on the one hand, that the consensus of theologians is effectively infallible and a proximate rule of faith while, on the other hand, asserting that the consensus of all the Church's bishops teaching the Universal Church in Ecumenical Council failed.  So theologians can't be wrong while the entire Ecclesia Docens, the world's bishops, can teach heresy and defect en masse.  Anti-BoD sedevacantists also claim that heretical ecclesiology is the chief of Vatican II's errors while at the same time holding the same ecclesiology themselves in their obsessive neurotic attack against Father Feeney, the only man who REALLY saw what was happening in the Church.  Sedevacantists champion the cause of the Heresiarch Cushing over the faithful Traditional Father Feeney.
    No contradiction in the least. The Council “failed” due to the lack of a pope. The whole ED did not defect as there were some who did not attend, some that did not sign the docs, some who were confused with what they were signing, and still others that were innocent in not realizing what they were actually signing. 

    Offline Recusant Sede

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  • My point is that it's a question of science and not theology.  Pope Leo XIII taught that even if the Church Fathers were unanimous on a point of science, that was not to be taken as a matter of faith and was subject to correction.
    I agree with you here. The point I was making in the OP is that the FEers believe that it is dogmatic that the Earth is flat when in fact that not only science but most Church authorities believed the Earth to be a globe. 

    Offline Recusant Sede

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  • "Major est Scripturae auctoritas quam omnis humani ingenii capacitas."  "Nothing is to be accepted save on the authority of Scripture, since greater is that authority than all the powers of the human mind."  --St. Augustine, Commentary on the Book of Genesis
    Cite your authorities. You mentioned several in a previous post.

     

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