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Author Topic: Cardinal Newman on papal infalliability  (Read 544 times)

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Offline Cera

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Cardinal Newman on papal infalliability
« on: August 07, 2019, 06:05:22 PM »
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    • In a sermon on the subject, the eminent 19th Cardinal John Henry Newman quoted a Pastoral Letter from the Bishops of Switzerland that received the approval of Blessed Pope Pius IX. The letter was on the subject of Papal Infallibility, and what a Pope may or not teach. The Swiss Bishops clearly stated:
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     "It in no way depends upon the caprice of the Pope, or upon his good pleasure, to make such and such a doctrine the object of a dogmatic definition. He is tied up and limited to the Divine revelation and to the truths which that revelation contains. He is tied up and limited by the creeds, already in existence, and by the preceding definitions of the Church. He is tied up and limited by the Divine law, and by the constitution of the Church . . ."
    [Taken from a sermon by Cardinal Newman published in Lead Kindly Light, The Life of John Henry Newman, Michael Davies (Neumann Press, Long Prairie, 2001) p. 184.]

    http://www.catholictradition.org/Tradition/catholic-tradition.htm
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    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Cardinal Newman on papal infalliability
    « Reply #1 on: August 07, 2019, 08:14:36 PM »
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    • This seems to be the wrong link.
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    Offline Cera

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    Re: Cardinal Newman on papal infalliability
    « Reply #2 on: August 08, 2019, 02:47:04 PM »
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    • Quote from: Nadir on August 07, 2019, 08:14:36 PM
    This seems to be the wrong link.
    The link is working; you have to scroll down. Use the "edit" function at the top of your page and enter several of the words, you will find it.
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    Offline Augustinus21

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    Re: Cardinal Newman on papal infalliability
    « Reply #3 on: August 09, 2019, 07:12:08 AM »
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    • There’s no problem with what he said as he said it before the dogma was defined
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Cardinal Newman on papal infalliability
    « Reply #4 on: August 09, 2019, 07:41:23 AM »
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    • Quote from: Augustinus21 on August 09, 2019, 07:12:08 AM
    There’s no problem with what he said as he said it before the dogma was defined
    There's no problem with it after the dogma was defined either. What the OP quoted wholly agrees with the defined dogma.
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    Offline Struthio

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    Re: Cardinal Newman on papal infalliability
    « Reply #5 on: August 09, 2019, 07:46:26 AM »
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    • Why does Newman quote the Swiss Bishops?
    What is Newman's comment on the quote?

    Does Newman use the quote to argue that Infallibility can not be defined?
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    Offline Cera

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    Re: Cardinal Newman on papal infalliability
    « Reply #6 on: August 09, 2019, 02:51:45 PM »
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    • Rorate Caeli has an article by Michael Davies on Cardinal Newman and his stance on infallibility, a stance with which I think most traditional Catholics will agree.
    https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2015/07/exclusive-for-rorate-michael-davies.html

    Michael Davies, in the general brawl of the immediate post-council, understood at once that “no one, whatever his rank, can compel us to accept an interpretation of moral or doctrinal teaching in a conciliar docuмent which conflicts with the previous teaching of the Church”33.

    Davies refers back to Newman who asserted that when a new form is not faithful to the idea that it attempts to express better, such a new form is an unfaithful and false development “more properly called a corruption”. Citing Bellarmine, Cardinal Newman recalls that: “All Catholics and heretics agree in two things: first that it is possible for a pope, even as Pope, and with his own assembly of councillors, or with a General Council, to err in particular controversies of fact, which chiefly depend on human information and testimony…”34.


    Let’s not forget, as Cardinal Newman reminds us, that “ At the time of Arianism it was the fidelity of the lay that saved the Church.”  
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    Offline Struthio

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    Re: Cardinal Newman on papal infalliability
    « Reply #7 on: August 10, 2019, 06:59:29 AM »
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    • The quotes of Davies just prove that Davies endorses Newmans strange ideas about development.


    What about the pertinent questions:

    Why does Newman quote the Swiss Bishops?
    What is Newman's comment on the quote?
    Does Newman use the quote to argue that Infallibility can not be defined?
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    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)
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