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Author Topic: We need more practical discussions, less academic and useless ones  (Read 1701 times)

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Offline Matthew

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If this secret pagan publicly professes the Catholic faith I don't see why he wouldn't be a member of the Church. If he was baptized as an adult, but internally rejected this act, even at the very moment of it's carrying out, he would be a member, a dead member.
I just clicked on a thread out of curiosity, and the above quote is what I read. Here is my first impression:
Talk about an ivory tower, hypothetical, useless, academic discussion!  Is that what the rest of this thread is like?

In other news, "here is how many angels could fit on the head of a pin..."

Meanwhile, Tradition burns.

Seriously -- think of the situation for so many Trads today: the downfall of the SSPX, the necessity of Mass, the economic reality of 2018, newlywed couples trying to get by, couples where the wife is forced to work, the issue of education "how to school our children without sending them to public school, and I can't homeschool", finding friends for your children who aren't a horrible influence, young people discerning marriage (both male and female), dealing with non-Trad and non-Catholic family members, dealing with Trad/Catholic/theological disagreements with your spouse, and so many other important, critical, AND PRACTICAL topics.

We're talking about issues that affect Trads everywhere, in all parts of Tradition, regardless of what group they patronize. There are a lot of struggles we have in common. Yes, even between a young sedevacantist couple and a young SSPX couple. Yes, I know that's blasphemy for those who love to divide...

So is this academic issue really the most important issue pressing on Trad Catholics today? Are our lives so stable and worry-free that we can indulge in such academic discussions? I'm sure many would like to say (or shout) MUST BE NICE.

I could go on for hours with examples of the sufferings and struggles faced by Trads in 2018.

NOTE: I'm actually in a pretty stable situation myself -- but A) even I have issues I have to deal with, like the lack of weekly Mass, raising children in the 2018 pagan modern world, lack of friends/family "support network", etc. and B) I'm objective -- I don't always talk about myself. I step outside myself and my situation as easily as others are comfortably stuck thinking from their own situation/perspective :)


TL;DR:
We need less "Crisis in the Church" posts and more "Catholics Living in the Modern World" posts. The latter could have been called "The Rubber Meets the Road" or "Trad Catholic in Action" or "Trad Catholic life all week long - the struggles" and so forth.

I'll add this: when people criticize CathInfo, they are usually talking about the Crisis in the Church subforum -- or the Anonymous subforum. I have heard almost zero criticism over the past 12 years about the contents of "Catholics Living in the Modern World", "The Sacred", or any of the other sub-fora on CathInfo. 
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Offline trad123

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Re: We need more practical discussions, less academic and useless ones
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2018, 01:59:15 PM »
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  • more "Catholics Living in the Modern World" posts.

    I'll bite.

    I have a father that likely died in mortal sin. A mother who doesn't care about the faith. Extended family that are essentially heathen. Coworkers that, at times, present themselves as occasions of sin.

    I have an SSPX chapel within 15 minutes, if traffic is good. A CMRI one, 45 minutes away. I'm making enough money that I can live contently; the prospect of being manager of my department, in the future.

    I have the opportunity to pray 15 decades a day, but I can't say I do my best to do so. I spend too much time listening to music and reading forums.
    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.


    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: We need more practical discussions, less academic and useless ones
    « Reply #2 on: May 12, 2018, 02:41:25 PM »
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  • When I went to Mass for Ascension, I caught myself feeling disappointed that it was a Low Mass rather than High.  And I thought "how spoiled I have become!"  I need to more grateful that I have so many opportunities to attend the TLM within a reasonable driving distance.  Not only am I able to attend every Sunday, I am close enough even to go on weekdays.

    This is such a great blessing and yet, I have gotten used to it.  I should never take my ability to attend Mass for granted.

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: We need more practical discussions, less academic and useless ones
    « Reply #3 on: May 12, 2018, 03:20:18 PM »
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  • From where I sit, I see many practical and fruitful discussions on Cathinfo  :farmer:

    My stats are heavily weighted to posts on "General Discussion" or "SSPX Resistance News".

    Since many of us block-out the ʝʊdɛօ-masonic news, as Bp. Williamson warns us to do, important topics can be filtered through these headings.

    My interest is to try and discern the truth by reading topics and sharing opinions with other trads.

    As it pertains to our Faith, the corruption of the SSPX and "Judas style" betrayal of Catholic tradition is the most fascinating phenomena within the Church.

    On this forum and others, we've shared and cross-referenced SSPX international news to discern and confront the Order's lies and collusion with Church modernists.

    This part of our duty of state... to fight for the true Catholic remnant... to the end.


    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: We need more practical discussions, less academic and useless ones
    « Reply #4 on: May 12, 2018, 04:35:53 PM »
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  • .
    When I went to Mass for Ascension, I caught myself feeling disappointed that it was a Low Mass rather than High.  And I thought "how spoiled I have become!"  I need to more grateful that I have so many opportunities to attend the TLM within a reasonable driving distance.  Not only am I able to attend every Sunday, I am close enough even to go on weekdays.

    This is such a great blessing and yet, I have gotten used to it.  I should never take my ability to attend Mass for granted.
    .
    For me, the Feast of the Ascension of Our Lord came and went with very little fanfare. The most notable unique event was the extinguishing of the Paschal candle. It seemed rather anti-climactic in retrospect. Our hymn to Our Lady and crowning her "with blossoms today" was prominent.
    .
    Every year I get the feeling that these past 40 days since Easter have gone by so much FASTER than did the recent 40 days of Lent.
    .
    Our priest managed to give a short sermon, but he somehow missed saying what the Ascension means theologically.
    .
    He pointed out that it was as Our Lord ascended, and was physically not standing on the earth but rising into the clouds that He spoke to His Apostles, giving them their great Apostolic Commission to go forth to the farthest parts of the earth teaching everything as He has commanded you, and instituting the Sacrament of Baptism by giving them the Form: "Baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost; he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be condemned." I keep thinking, that was a whole lot of stuff to drop on them at a time when they couldn't open a discussion or ask Him any questions about it.
    .
    It was a friend who told me that was the time, by ascending, when Jesus opened the gates of heaven. As such the Ascension ought to be a much more prominent Feast Day than it has come to seem in our age.
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: We need more practical discussions, less academic and useless ones
    « Reply #5 on: May 12, 2018, 05:15:20 PM »
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  • It was a friend who told me that was the time, by ascending, when Jesus opened the gates of heaven. As such the Ascension ought to be a much more prominent Feast Day than it has come to seem in our age.
    This Feast Day is the one that I find hardest to understand.  I'm pretty sure if I had been there when Our Lord ascended I would have been upset.  It would have seemed like He was going away again after too short a time.  It is pretty unlikely that I would have had a clue about what it meant.  Even with the benefit of Church teaching and many wise and holy men explaining it over the years, I don't know much.

    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: We need more practical discussions, less academic and useless ones
    « Reply #6 on: May 12, 2018, 06:06:59 PM »
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  • .
    Our priest managed to give a short sermon ...
    .
    He pointed out that it was as Our Lord ascended .... that He spoke to His Apostles, giving them their great Apostolic Commission to go forth to the farthest parts of the earth teaching everything as He has commanded you...

    Our sermon yesterday included a thing or two about our duty to evangelize by our example, but with the specific proviso advising us that this didn't mean we were supposed to go door to door knocking on people's doors. 

    I got to wondering as to why there so often seems to be this standard throw away line in some sermons about going (or rather not going) to the farthest parts of your neighborhood or for that matter not going anywhere knocking on doors.  Why the back handed put down?  Why could one almost get the impression that it was anathema to knock on someone's door to spread the Good News of the Gospel and of Christ's One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church?  Imagine -- some saints have actually had the temerity to "defy" that seeming de facto anathema.  They weren't any worse off for it now were they?

    Are there any specific Catholic trad apostolates that specialize in or at least include going out spreading the word door to door -- actual face to face?

    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Re: We need more practical discussions, less academic and useless ones
    « Reply #7 on: May 12, 2018, 06:46:34 PM »
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  • Knowledge of what constitutes membership in the Catholic Church isn't "useful"?

    To expound:

    Seems to me that a lack of academic discussions is the real problem here.  Matthew, what you quoted is an essential question as it pertains to membership and the visibility of the Church.  The Protestants contended that what was necessary for belonging to the Church was supernatural faith (others argued election, others argued justification, etc.).

    Bellarmine said that if the Catholics are going to go ahead and agree that supernatural faith is required for membership, then we might as well make peace with the Lutherans and the rest of them because we're arguing for an invisible Church just like they are.

    So, the post you quoted is right (that secret infidels are members, supposing they're baptized and outwardly profess the faith).  But I know you weren't picking on it due to being right or wrong, but due to its apparent lack of utility.  But if having apologetic proofs for the visibility of the Church and an awareness of what it takes to be a member isn't useful, I really don't know what is.  A flat earth?
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).


    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Re: We need more practical discussions, less academic and useless ones
    « Reply #8 on: May 12, 2018, 07:01:54 PM »
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  • Sorry if my last post sounded ornery or impatient.  I think the example you posted was a terribly poor example of "useless" or "non-practical" discussion.  Beyond that one of course must attempt to strike a moderate balance between learning/knowledge and action.
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline Mega-fin

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    Re: We need more practical discussions, less academic and useless ones
    « Reply #9 on: May 13, 2018, 06:16:59 AM »
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  • I really do feel like this truly “hits the nail on the head”

    Living a truly Catholic life in this wicked world truly take an outstanding faith as Bp Williamson likes to remind us. For me, I’m 27, this October I’ll have been married for 5 years, I have three under three (3.5-6 months). We’ve had to just move away from our families and home town, which truly has been a blessing as I now work with traditional Catholic men, and get physical distance from our pagan families. But the struggle remains - I work an average of 60hrs a week with a young family, and as tradesmen, we are still “in the world”. I try to get 15 decades in a day, which with the commute helps. But, we still have to explain to our kids things like “I know you wanted to go see Opa, but he’s bringing his girlfriend” or “I know you’d like to go play with your cousins, but uncle Ryan lives in sin”. We’ve been shunned by a large majority of our families, and have next to no one to lean on. Just about anyone our age is modern - even in the trad chapels, where so many traditional Catholic have fallen in at least a practical fifties-ism. We worry about loosing the Mass, that we might not have a priest one day and that we'll have to Baptize our own children and not be able to get them First Communions, Confirmations, Confession, etc. and as the world is escalating to WW3 and total paganism, that’s a scary reality! But in the end, God will provide and that’s that. Yes it’s overwhelming. And the only consolation that you get at the end of the day is that this is where we lay up treasures in heaven- that this life only makes sense in the light of eternity. Let us never loose that sight in the trenches and the mud and the muck of our age. 

    Sorry for the rant from a usual reader but not poster - but we all can get a little frustrated. 
    Please disregard everything I have said; I have tended to speak before fact checking.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: We need more practical discussions, less academic and useless ones
    « Reply #10 on: May 13, 2018, 06:56:00 AM »
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  • I think the example you posted was a terribly poor example of "useless" or "non-practical" discussion.  Beyond that one of course must attempt to strike a moderate balance between learning/knowledge and action.
    I would agree; however, I think Matthew's general point of posting more in real life issues is noteworthy. It's made me think about why I don't do that on forums (generally speaking).  
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)


    Offline LaramieHirsch

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    Re: We need more practical discussions, less academic and useless ones
    « Reply #11 on: May 13, 2018, 08:55:42 AM »
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  • I agree.  Traditional Catholics these days are often caught in world-building utopian thinking.  Particularly myself.  

    Just last Sunday, I said on Facebook to somebody:


    Quote
    We're a bunch of insular, cheesy, ineffectual subgroups with no influence in society at all. 


    Oh well.  Difficult to stop philosophizing.  I find that sharing my thoughts with you folks on the interwebz is an outlet.  
    .........................

    Before some audiences not even the possession of the exactest knowledge will make it easy for what we say to produce conviction. For argument based on knowledge implies instruction, and there are people whom one cannot instruct.  - Aristotle

    Offline Cantarella

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    Re: We need more practical discussions, less academic and useless ones
    « Reply #12 on: May 13, 2018, 05:09:32 PM »
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  • It is a good thing that this forum has many specific sections and it is arranged in a way that people can choose whatever topic they are interested in.

    No one obliges me to click on a thread I absolutely have no interest in such as Flat Earth. For all I care the earth can be a triangle and still do not understand why this would be relevant to my eternal salvation. But that is just me. I understand there are many out there who are genuinely interested in the topic and it does not bother me at all.

    I am only interested in a couple of specific topics and usually only participate in those threads that caught my interest. Not everyone has be to interested in the same topics. A childless Catholic will probably not be interested in homeschooling issues, for instance. Theological matters interest me more than trivialities and I like it that I can post my thoughts anonymously in topics which I would never discuss with anyone in "real life". So I come to Cathinfo for academic discussions mainly. They are not useless to me. I have enough of the practical matters in "real life".










    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Nick

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    Re: We need more practical discussions, less academic and useless ones
    « Reply #13 on: May 13, 2018, 05:16:17 PM »
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  • Quote from: Croix de Fer on Mon May 14 2018 02:22:26 GMT+1000 (E. Australia Standard Time)

    "The Moylan family is in desperate need of your charitable contributions as they are losing their home and business due to the latest lava eruptions in the Leilani Estates subdivision, caused from the Kilauea volcano in Hawaii. They are now a displaced family and are in serious need of your charity, so even if you are not able to donate, please keep them in your prayers..."

    https://www.gofundme.com/john-moylan-family

    Offline Cera

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    Re: We need more practical discussions, less academic and useless ones
    « Reply #14 on: May 14, 2018, 11:47:28 AM »
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  • It is a good thing that this forum has many specific sections and it is arranged in a way that people can choose whatever topic they are interested in.

    No one obliges me to click on a thread I absolutely have no interest in such as Flat Earth. For all I care the earth can be a triangle and still do not understand why this would be relevant to my eternal salvation. But that is just me. I understand there are many out there who are genuinely interested in the topic and it does not bother me at all.

    I am only interested in a couple of specific topics and usually only participate in those threads that caught my interest. Not everyone has be to interested in the same topics. A childless Catholic will probably not be interested in homeschooling issues, for instance. Theological matters interest me more than trivialities and I like it that I can post my thoughts anonymously in topics which I would never discuss with anyone in "real life". So I come to Cathinfo for academic discussions mainly. They are not useless to me. I have enough of the practical matters in "real life".
    Well said. I would add that a topic that may seen academic to one person, may very well have practical applications to another person.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary