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Poll

Was Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg a German traitor or Catholic hero ?

He was a traitor who tried to kill a great German leader.
7 (31.8%)
He was a Catholic hero who tried to save his country from the nαzιs.
10 (45.5%)
The attempted tyrranicide was justified.
4 (18.2%)
I don't know or care about WWII history.
1 (4.5%)

Total Members Voted: 15

Voting closed: November 12, 2017, 09:03:04 PM

Author Topic: Was Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg a German traitor or Catholic hero ?  (Read 20039 times)

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Offline DZ PLEASE

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Re: Was Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg a German traitor or Catholic hero ?
« Reply #105 on: November 10, 2017, 01:13:36 PM »
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  • My views on Pius XI and Pius XII, Mit and the events leading up to WWII and eventually the demise of the Church are based on historical facts. I do not allow ultramontanism to get in the way, much like R&R's don't let Vatican II and all of the subsequent events after it to get in the way of dismissing anything the recognized hierarchy says or does.
    My views go much further back than these events. But, that's another story.
    So you say.

    Offline clarkaim

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    Re: Was Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg a German traitor or Catholic hero ?
    « Reply #106 on: November 10, 2017, 01:29:15 PM »
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  • So you're basically endorsing nαzιsm.
    Um, nαzιsm?  No such thing.  it's called National Socialism, and no, despite the propensity of so many propagandized Americans to equate it with communism or socialism as we commonly understand them (can you say nominal ism?) it was more a world view thinking that Nations where extended families with shared common interest.  Also, under no circuмstances did the Germ,ans want to "take over the world" until Murika came to save the day at D-day/Normandy invasion.    The fact that so many of us believe all the BS about this era is proof of how controlled we are by the Jews.  Mit Brennender Sorge was about the risk of the German State being worshiped at the expense of eternal truth (can we say Catholicism? as if there is any other?)  I think had Hitler won the war, what you'd have today is a confederation of equal and legitimate nation states in Europe, but no NWO/Jew run international banking scheme/sham that makes everyone's life's bad.
    Oh, just because some Catholic calls himself that, don't make it so!  The Heretics that gave the world V2 were a bunch of well placed men from the same era.  Thanks Jews


    Offline LeDeg

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    Re: Was Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg a German traitor or Catholic hero ?
    « Reply #107 on: November 10, 2017, 02:25:33 PM »
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  •   but the problem was that Hitler and company separated themselves from the the teachings of Christ and His Church in their pursuit of a policy of Imperialistic race hatred against the Jєωιѕн people. If you don't have a hard copy it can be viewed on line at https://archive.org/details/ThePlotAgainstTheChurch_192


    First, Hitler did not promote hatred against the Jєωιѕн people. How else do you explain that over 40 Jews served in the German command, such Field Marshal Milch? Over 150,000 Jews served in the Wehrmacht? This was with the full knowledge of the NSDAP and they did nothing but welcome their service in the cause. Hitler's own chaueffer was a Jew. One of his kitchen staff was Jєωιѕн. 
    Hitler identifying the "Jєωιѕн problem" was no different than the Church and Catholic monarchs expelling them over 100 times in over 70 countries in the last 1000 years. Pot, meet kettle......
    Hitler believed in each countries sovereignty. Others in Europe saw his vision. Over 30 countries volunteered for the fight and were part of exclusively non German SS divisions to fight against the Marxists. 
    "You must train harder than the enemy who is trying to kill you. You will get all the rest you need in the grave."- Leon Degrelle

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Was Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg a German traitor or Catholic hero ?
    « Reply #108 on: November 10, 2017, 02:46:04 PM »
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  • Personally, I have found the most comprehensive, balanced, and correct treatment of the Jєωιѕн Question, Hitler and the nαzιs (National Socialists of the Third Reich) to be found in the pages of the stunning and profoundly significant work, The Plot Against the Church.  (If only this book had been given proper attention by the bishops and cardinals at Vatican II.  Alas, hindsight is 20/20.)  If you have a hard copy with an index (which unfortunately the linked copy here does not) you may wish to go directly to your index and check out the pages under the entries for Hitler and nαzιs.  In short the collective authors (i.e., Maurice Pinay) assert that much of what Hitler and his party did were spot on and actually in accord with much of Church truth and policy in regards to the handling of the Jews , but the problem was that Hitler and company separated themselves from the the teachings of Christ and His Church in their pursuit of a policy of Imperialistic race hatred against the Jєωιѕн people. If you don't have a hard copy it can be viewed on line at https://archive.org/details/ThePlotAgainstTheChurch_192


    This is a response to that quoted how exactly?

    "Google it", or "look it up yourself", is BS. 

    However, if that's the standard you want to use, then you won't mind if people make allegations and insinuation about you while you're not about to defend yourself, and then serve up some weak sauce, "google it" or "read a book" response that doesn't appear to have any relevance, right?

    "Honorable"

    Whatever.

    YOu might try the dismissive, "Antisemite" like "defeater" of "Ultramontane"; it seems to meet the same high standards of rigor and virtue...oh yeah, and "honor".

    To heck with it, let's just emulate that vaunted German "efficiency" and work ethic, become formal Protestants, call it a day, then we can just make crap up and say we're "inspired".
    At least that part would be true, God forbid it, because it wouldn't be HIm doing the inspiring.

    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Was Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg a German traitor or Catholic hero ?
    « Reply #109 on: November 10, 2017, 03:06:37 PM »
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  • This is a response to that quoted how exactly?

    "Google it", or "look it up yourself", is BS.

    However, if that's the standard you want to use, then you won't mind if people make allegations and insinuation about you while you're not about to defend yourself, and then serve up some weak sauce, "google it" or "read a book" response that doesn't appear to have any relevance, right?

    "Honorable"

    Whatever.

    YOu might try the dismissive, "Antisemite" like "defeater" of "Ultramontane"; it seems to meet the same high standards of rigor and virtue...oh yeah, and "honor".

    To heck with it, let's just emulate that vaunted German "efficiency" and work ethic, become formal Protestants, call it a day, then we can just make crap up and say we're "inspired".
    At least that part would be true, God forbid it, because it wouldn't be HIm doing the inspiring.


    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Was Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg a German traitor or Catholic hero ?
    « Reply #110 on: November 10, 2017, 03:11:22 PM »
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  • Sorry if I offended you or anyone else on this forum DZ PLEASE.  I never intended to.

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Was Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg a German traitor or Catholic hero ?
    « Reply #111 on: November 10, 2017, 03:16:20 PM »
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  • Sorry if I offended you or anyone else on this forum DZ PLEASE.  I never intended to.
    I DESERVE offense man; itt's not my offense that I"m concerned with. 

    WE'RE cool, and you seem a decent sort; however, for the sake of souls and GOD'S honor lets just not be so reckless indicting Vicars of Christ.

    I don't know how I can even walk with this foot in my mouth all the time; don't beat yourself up, just be careful.

    Offline GottmitunsAlex

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    Re: Was Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg a German traitor or Catholic hero ?
    « Reply #112 on: November 10, 2017, 06:47:11 PM »
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  • Um, nαzιsm?  No such thing.  it's called National Socialism, and no, despite the propensity of so many propagandized Americans to equate it with communism or socialism as we commonly understand them (can you say nominal ism?) it was more a world view thinking that Nations where extended families with shared common interest.  Also, under no circuмstances did the Germ,ans want to "take over the world" until Murika came to save the day at D-day/Normandy invasion.    The fact that so many of us believe all the BS about this era is proof of how controlled we are by the Jews.  Mit Brennender Sorge was about the risk of the German State being worshiped at the expense of eternal truth (can we say Catholicism? as if there is any other?)  I think had Hitler won the war, what you'd have today is a confederation of equal and legitimate nation states in Europe, but no NWO/Jew run international banking scheme/sham that makes everyone's life's bad.
    Oh, just because some Catholic calls himself that, don't make it so!  The Heretics that gave the world V2 were a bunch of well placed men from the same era.  Thanks Jews
    Well said. This pretty much sums it up. The marranos who infiltrated the Church granted the apostates their V2.
    YES MARRANOS..
    Subversive, meek on the outside but pure putrescence on the inside. 
    "You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and he stood not in the truth; because truth is not in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.
    But if I say the truth, you believe me not.
    Which of you shall convince me of sin? If I say the truth to you, why do you not believe me?"
    "As the head of the Church, I cannot answer you otherwise: The Jews have not recognized Our Lord; therefore we cannot recognize the Jєωιѕн people." -Pope St. Pius X

    "No Jew adores God! Who say so?  The Son of God say so."


    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Was Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg a German traitor or Catholic hero ?
    « Reply #113 on: November 11, 2017, 12:27:44 AM »
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  • Well said. This pretty much sums it up. The marranos who infiltrated the Church granted the apostates their V2.
    YES MARRANOS..
    Subversive, meek on the outside but pure putrescence on the inside.
    "You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and he stood not in the truth; because truth is not in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.
    But if I say the truth, you believe me not.
    Which of you shall convince me of sin? If I say the truth to you, why do you not believe me?"
    Name them.

    Offline GottmitunsAlex

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    Re: Was Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg a German traitor or Catholic hero ?
    « Reply #114 on: November 11, 2017, 12:39:59 AM »
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  • Name them.
    http://newensign.christsassembly.com/A%20History%20of%20The%20Marranos.pdf


    Montini, (anti-pope)
    Baum (Drafted Nostrae aetate, head peritus for Unitatis Redintegratio and Dignitatis Humanae)

    "As the head of the Church, I cannot answer you otherwise: The Jews have not recognized Our Lord; therefore we cannot recognize the Jєωιѕн people." -Pope St. Pius X

    "No Jew adores God! Who say so?  The Son of God say so."

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Was Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg a German traitor or Catholic hero ?
    « Reply #115 on: November 11, 2017, 01:01:08 AM »
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  • http://newensign.christsassembly.com/A%20History%20of%20The%20Marranos.pdf


    Montini, (anti-pope)
    Baum (Drafted Nostrae aetate, head peritus for Unitatis Redintegratio and Dignitatis Humanae)
    Thank you, but let's cut through the stuffing; does any posting this thread hold that any pope or popes referred to on this thread, namely those going by "Pius" were traitors, Jews, not Catholics, not popes etc.?

    If a question needs to be formed as if posed by a lawyer, that is not a good sign; it is somewhat reminiscent of an Inquisitor interrogating, well, a Maranno.


    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Was Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg a German traitor or Catholic hero ?
    « Reply #116 on: November 11, 2017, 01:17:07 AM »
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  • In the first place, discount the fact that Stauffenberg was a Catholic.  

    Can we do the same regarding you?

    Catholicism was not his motivation

    Evidence? i.e., "Prove" it. More to the point, first show how you can justly assert such in the first place.

    ...

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Was Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg a German traitor or Catholic hero ?
    « Reply #117 on: November 11, 2017, 03:21:00 AM »
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  • Baum (Drafted Nostrae aetate, head peritus for Unitatis Redintegratio and Dignitatis Humanae)
    For those unfamiliar with Gregory Baum, here is some background information:
    Quote
    Baum attended the Second Vatican Council (1962-65) as a peritus, or theological expert. He vigorously opposed Catholic teaching on a range of issues, including contraception, priestly celibacy, and ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity.

    He was one of the most outspoken critics of Pope Paul VI's 1968 condemnation of contraception in the encyclical Humanae Vitae, even to the point of rallying opposition to the teaching.

    Baum played no small part in the outcome of the Canadian bishops adopting a position of open dissent from Humanae Vitae two months after its release.

    In their September 27, 1968, controversial “Winnipeg Statement,” the bishops opened a door for couples to use contraception, stating that if a couple has "tried sincerely but without success to pursue a line of conduct in keeping with the given directives, they may be safely assured that, whoever honestly chooses that course which seems right to him does so in good conscience."

    Monsignor Vincent Foy, who was known until his death as the foremost expert on the Canadian bishops’ dissent in Winnipeg, wrote that Baum’s influence over the bishops’ proceedings at that time cast a “black shadow.”

    “If it had not been for the black shadow of Baum over Winnipeg, his influence over some Bishops, the Canadian theological establishment and pressure groups, the Winnipeg Statement of the Canadian Bishops on Humanae Vitae would not have refused to endorse the teaching of the encyclical as it did,” he wrote.

    Baum revealed in a book published this year that he secretly led an active ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ life for decades.

    In The Oil Has Not Run Dry: The Story of My Theological Pathway, Baum states that he chose to keep his ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity a secret while appearing to be a faithful priest so he could continue to exert his influence within the Catholic Church.

    “I did not profess my own ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity in public because such an act of honesty would have reduced my influence as a critical theologian,” he wrote.

    “I was eager to be heard as a theologian trusting in God as salvator mundi (Savior of the world) and committed to social justice, liberation theology, and global solidarity,” he added.

    In his book, Baum details his ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ experiences.

    “I was 40 years old when I had my first sɛҳuąƖ encounter with a man. I met him in a restaurant in London. This was exciting and at the same time disappointing, for I knew what love was and what I really wanted was to share my life with a partner.”

    He wrote that he considered resigning from the priesthood but did not go through with the formality, rather choosing to announce it in the national newspaper. He later married a divorced ex-nun who he says “did not mind that, when we moved to Montreal in 1986, I met Normand, a former priest, with whom I fell in love.” Normand, he wrote, “is gαy and welcomed my sɛҳuąƖ embrace.”

    Noted Toronto Catholic priest and Vatican consultant Fr. Thomas Rosica hosted a controversial appearance of Baum at the Catholic Newman Centre of the University of Toronto in 1996 and in 2012 made him a featured guest on his Canadian Catholic TV station Salt and Light Television.
    During the Salt and Light interview, Fr. Rosica professed to having known Baum for a long time and praised him for his theology.

    “I’ve certainly admired very much your theology, your writings but also your love of the Church, your love of Christ, and you helped to keep alive not only the spirit of the Second Vatican Council but also the authentic teaching of the Council,” Fr. Rosica said of Baum.
    “You remain a faithful, deeply devoted Catholic, love Jesus, the Church, the Eucharist,” he added.

    Monsignor Foy, on the other hand, considered Baum as having “done more than any person to harm the Church in Canada.”
    https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/gαy-ex-priest-who-pushed-canadian-bishops-to-reject-contraception-teaching

    It is reasonable enough to charge someone like this of being a Marrano, but I have gotten the impression that Gottmituns suspects all Catholics of Jєωιѕн heritage of intending harm to the Church.  This does not seem fair to those who have sincerely converted.

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Was Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg a German traitor or Catholic hero ?
    « Reply #118 on: November 11, 2017, 03:33:01 AM »
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  • It is reasonable enough to charge someone like this of being a Marrano, but I have gotten the impression that Gottmituns suspects all Catholics of Jєωιѕн heritage of intending harm to the Church.

      Possibly ma'am, but there's no cause to commit a similar wrong even intending a right end; besides, he can answer y/n for himself, or tacitly "yes" in not responding promptly enough subsequent to any other posts that he makes.

     This does not seem fair to those who have sincerely converted.

      Presuming that they have which, without adequate evidence to the contrary, justice and prudence demands; actual enemies of the Faith can exploit the unfounded, and so drive wedges for the purpose of breaching, dividing and conquering. Frankly, there's more that a whiff of that in the air at current, if you'll pardon.

      As far as "heritage" goes, I think most would be surprised exactly what their own is, contingent upon how this is defined.

       It would be very interesting to see a statistical breakdown as to who doesn't have "Jew blood". It wouldn't surprise me to find that those professing to be such to have similar or less in their genetic makeup.

       I'm adopted myself so, for all that I know, I'm part "Hymie" myself. "Oi vey!"


    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Was Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg a German traitor or Catholic hero ?
    « Reply #119 on: November 11, 2017, 03:57:21 AM »
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  • I was born and raised Jєωιѕн.  Gotmittuns has accused me of being a Marrano on multiple occasions.

    I was baptized at sixteen years of age, but by heretics, and became Catholic when I was 21.