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Poll

Was Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg a German traitor or Catholic hero ?

He was a traitor who tried to kill a great German leader.
7 (31.8%)
He was a Catholic hero who tried to save his country from the nαzιs.
10 (45.5%)
The attempted tyrranicide was justified.
4 (18.2%)
I don't know or care about WWII history.
1 (4.5%)

Total Members Voted: 15

Voting closed: November 12, 2017, 09:03:04 PM

Author Topic: Was Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg a German traitor or Catholic hero ?  (Read 20122 times)

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Offline Incredulous

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Re: Was Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg a German traitor or Catholic hero ?
« Reply #60 on: November 07, 2017, 09:52:52 PM »
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  • Persecution of the Catholic Church in the Third Reich, The Paperback – July 31, 2003

    • Paperback: 592 pages
    • Publisher: Pelican Publishing (July 31, 2003)
    • Language: English
    • ISBN-10: 1589801377
    • ISBN-13: 978-1589801370

    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Was Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg a German traitor or Catholic hero ?
    « Reply #61 on: November 07, 2017, 10:02:18 PM »
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  • The 'ol occult canard. I was wondering when this would be rolled out. It's total rubbish. But, as you said, you're no WWII historian, so I don't blame you.
    Here, I'm rolling it out, with references: 

    Hitler was brought into the occult and mentored by jew.

    Link
    nαzιsm, a Gnostic-Manichean Sect - Part V

    The Strange Personality of Adolf Hitler 

    Cunha Alvarenga
    Alfred Rosenberg was truly the brains behind the nαzι Gnosis. He was born in 1893 in Estonia to a family of Baltic Germans. He received his engineering doctorate in Moscow in early 1917. One year later, fleeing the Communist Revolution he emigrated to Germany.


    Rosenberg, left, present at Hitler's side from the beginning
    Always with a theosophical bent, Rosenberg entered the Thule Society, the occult group we mentioned in a previous article. For his remarkable learning, far surpassing the average mediocre mind, he caught the attention of Dietrich Eckart, also a member of the Thule group and editor of the People’s Observer

    It was Eckart who introduced him to Hitler at the beginning of his political career. Rosenberg was one of the first to enlist in the nαzι Party and “his influence was decisive in the formation of the future ‘Lord of Germany,’ in whom he even further instilled anti-Semitism and the proclivity to the occult” (apud Hitler and the Cathar Tradition, p. 262). 

    Anti-Catholic bend of nαzιsm 

    In his key-work The Myth of the 20th Century, the most influential nαzι text after Hitler’s Mein Kampf, Rosenberg rejects the Old Testament; in the New Testament, he repudiates principally the Epistles of St. Paul. For this theoretician of nαzιsm “there is a negative Christianity and a positive Christianity. The former is linked to the image of the crucified Jesus, the latter to the image of the living Jesus” (ibid., p. 264). Rosenberg does not consider early Christianity as an enemy, since it exalts the personality of the living Jesus, but - following the path of the Gnostics to whom he adheres - he rejects the Crucifixion and Resurrection of Our Savior as mystifications of the Eastern mentality.


    A pantheist concept of God akin to the Gnostic myths
    His hatred of the Catholic Church as a social body is strongly avowed throughout his book. The notion of a one universal Church, whose dogma and morals should influence the life of the State – its culture, art and science – is for him “the remains of the chaos of those men who poisoned our minds.” From this perspective, he approves Martin Luther as an important step – but one that did not go far enough – in reasserting the “Aryan spirit” and setting up the idea of nationalism against the universal monarchy of the Pope” (apud Hitler and the Cathar Tradition, p. 264). 

    To the philosopher Rosenthal, “every event is significant and expresses the eternal fight between the forces of light and darkness. From his perspective, all the heretics, the Cathars above all, are considered heroes in a tragedy of cosmic dimension. In this gigantic battle of the German-Nordic peoples of Europe against Roman universalism and conquering Catholicism, the history of the Albigensians, Valdenses, Cathars, early reformers, Huguenots and Lutherans play an avidly epic role” (pp. 264-265). 

    According to his work The Myth of the 20th Century, the German mind rejects the static concept of one God, Sovereign of the Universe, and breaks with the Old Testament. With this rejection the German mind follows the spirit of Luther who “was liberated from the Jews and their lies.” To this cascade of blasphemies, the intellectual of nαzιsm adds that death should not be considered, as taught by Christianity, as the wages of sin (Rom 6:23); on the contrary it is a simple natural phenomenon that “does not disturb the eternal process that existed before us and will continue to exist after us” (p.268). Clearly these pantheist ideas are not original, but copied from the neo-Platonic School of Alexandria.


    Quote
    [Note: Philo of Alexandria, 25BC-50AC, made a synthesis of the Jєωιѕн Kabbalah and the Hellenist Gnosis of his time, considered one of the most encompassing works of Gnosis. It is normally referred to as the Gnostic School of Alexandria or neo-Platonic School of Alexandria. It was the basis for many heresies in the first centuries of the Church.]
    The preternatural presence in Hitler’s life


    A gaze that speaks of his tendency to the occult
    About the enigmatic personality of Hitler, Jean M. Angebert comments: “What is certain is that the prophetic, mystic and visionary aspects of this modern warlock presents to the world the hypocritical physiognomy of a harsh, insensible man who is unscrupulously able to condemn to death any person who stands in his way” (p.279). 

    Either with individuals or before a multitude, Hitler revealed a great hypnotic power. Someone affirmed that he was possessed by invisible powers, his “unknown superiors” referred to by Hermann Rauschning. In his work Hitler Told Me, he describes the Führer as an antenna in touch with frightening, superior beings: 

    “One of his domestics told me that Hitler often awakened at night shouting convulsively for help. He used to remain paralyzed sitting at the edge of his bed, overcome by a panic that made the whole bed shake. He shouted incomprehensible and clipped phrases, breathing with difficulty as if he were being suffocated. The same person reported one of these episodes to me with details that I normally would not have believed if the person had not been so certain. 


    Above, an hypnothic capacity exerted through theatrical skills. Below, speaking to a mesmerized multitude.

    “During one of these crises, Hitler was standing in the middle of his room tottering, gazing around him with a hallucinated stare. Then he roared: “It is him! It is him! He is here!” His lips were blue and the sweat poured from his face in large drips. Suddenly he started to spell out numbers without meaning, then words and parts of phrases. It was horrible. He used bizarre and utterly strange words. Then he became quiet, although his lips continued to move. Someone began to rub him and gave him something to drink. Suddenly he roared again: “There! There in the corner! Who is there?” He pounded his foot on the floor and continued to roar. Someone told him that there was nothing unusual there; then little by little he calmed down” (Hermann Rauschning, Hitler m’a dit , apud Hitler and the Cathar Tradition, p. 282). 

    “His words, ‘I follow the way that Providence points me with the confidence of a sleep-walker,’ indicates the lines of his supra-normal powers. But, from whom did he receive those powers? Would it be per chance from the Thule group that had initiated him in Eastern esotericism? Would it be from the mysterious man in the green gloves sent to him by the warlocks of Tibet? Or would it be from an older revelation?” (p. 283) 

    Hitler hated hunters because he believed human souls were reincarnated in the bodies of animals, like the Cathars and Buddhists who believe in metempsychosis. (p.287) Once he declared: “Even those who commit ѕυιcιdє indisputably return to nature - body, soul and spirit” (Adolph Hitler, Libres Propos, Flammarion, Paris, 1952, apud Hitler and the Cathar Tradition, p. 291). 

    From all that is affirmed in the book of Jean M. Angebert one thing seems certain to us: the Gnostic and occult character of National Socialism both in the actions and the aims of its principal leaders. It is another confirmation that a natural consequence of Gnosis is Socialism. 

    In his book Out of the Night, about the fight of Communists and nαzιs after World War II, Marxist Jean Valtin reported the surprise and unease of the Communist grassroots in Germany who received the instruction not to resist the partisans of Hitler. 

    A little before the fall of Berlin, Goebbels proclaimed in a radio speech that even though National Socialism was being defeated by arms, it would emerge victorious with the implantation of Socialism throughout the world. Considering the Hegelian origins of Marxist Socialism and its Gnostic roots, we can easily conceive that both National Socialism and Marxist Socialism could well reinforce each other in the dialectical shock of their apparent opposition. 



    Posted May 15, 2008
    Translated from Catolicismo, September 1971

    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Was Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg a German traitor or Catholic hero ?
    « Reply #62 on: November 07, 2017, 10:23:03 PM »
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  • For all those who despise Hitler for all the wrong reasons, I would highly recommend them to read this book...  



    Available to read online here...

    Interesting.  

    I listened to some Irving interviews.  In one of them, he claimed Stauffenberg was a traitor.

    Irving is known for defending Hitler, and blaming the SS head, Himmler, for German war atrocities.

    For some reason, I don't trust Irving, even though he is a friend of Bishop Williamson.

    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Was Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg a German traitor or Catholic hero ?
    « Reply #63 on: November 07, 2017, 10:31:55 PM »
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  • The most satisfying lecture on Hilter's motivations came from the Cincinnati trad, Jim Condit.



    He theme is that Hitler was put into power by elite jews precisely to help herd the common jews back into Palestine.

    A crisis had to be made up to get them out of Europe and Hitler was the guy to do it.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Was Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg a German traitor or Catholic hero ?
    « Reply #64 on: November 07, 2017, 10:33:59 PM »
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  • The world would've been a better place if Hitler were never born and the nαzι Party stopped dead in its tracks.
    That rings just a tad omniscient...


    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Was Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg a German traitor or Catholic hero ?
    « Reply #65 on: November 07, 2017, 10:39:35 PM »
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  • Anyone else get the impression that we're speaking of Roman, and not Berliner, critters here?

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Was Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg a German traitor or Catholic hero ?
    « Reply #66 on: November 07, 2017, 10:46:13 PM »
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  • The enemy of my enemy is not my friend; my friend is my friend.

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Was Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg a German traitor or Catholic hero ?
    « Reply #67 on: November 07, 2017, 10:55:03 PM »
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  • Quote
    America has no permanent friends or enemies, only interests. 

    H. Kissinger

    America or no...


    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Was Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg a German traitor or Catholic hero ?
    « Reply #68 on: November 08, 2017, 07:06:57 AM »
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  • The most satisfying lecture on Hilter's motivations came from the Cincinnati trad, Jim Condit.



    He theme is that Hitler was put into power by elite jews precisely to help herd the common jews back into Palestine.

    A crisis had to be made up to get them out of Europe and Hitler was the guy to do it.
    Wow! That completely fits the development of Zionism.  

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Was Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg a German traitor or Catholic hero ?
    « Reply #69 on: November 08, 2017, 07:12:28 AM »
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  • What encyclical are you referring to?
    As  I posted earlier in the thread:
    http://w2.vatican.va/content/pius-xi/en/encyclicals/docuмents/hf_p-xi_enc_14031937_mit-brennender-sorge.html

    "...the evidence of events should have torn the mask off the systematic hostility leveled at the Church. Even now that a campaign against the confessional schools, which are guaranteed by the concordat, and the destruction of free election, where Catholics have a right to their children's Catholic education, afford evidence, in a matter so essential to the life of the Church, of the extreme gravity of the situation and the anxiety of every Christian conscience..."

    "...We turn to you [the German bishops], and through you, the German Catholics, who, like all suffering and afflicted children, are nearer to their Father's heart. At a time when your faith, like gold, is being tested in the fire of tribulation and persecution, when your religious freedom is beset on all sides, when the lack of religious teaching and of normal defense is heavily weighing on you, you have every right to words of truth and spiritual comfort..." 

    "We thank you, Venerable Brethren, your priests and Faithful, who have persisted in their Christian duty and in the defense of God's rights in the teeth of an aggressive paganism. Our gratitude, warmer still and admiring, goes out to those who, in fulfillment of their duty, have been deemed worthy of sacrifice and suffering for the love of God."

    "In your country, Venerable Brethren, voices are swelling into a chorus urging people to leave the Church, and among the leaders there is more than one whose official position is intended to create the impression that this infidelity to Christ the King constitutes a signal and meritorious act of loyalty to the modern State. Secret and open measures of intimidation, the threat of economic and civic disabilities, bear on the loyalty of certain classes of Catholic functionaries, a pressure which violates every human right and dignity. Our wholehearted paternal sympathy goes out to those who must pay so dearly for their loyalty to Christ and the Church; but directly the highest interests are at stake, with the alternative of spiritual loss, there is but one alternative left, that of heroism."

    "The believer has an absolute right to profess his Faith and live according to its dictates. Laws which impede this profession and practice of Faith are against natural law."

    "Thousands of voices ring into your ears a Gospel which has not been revealed by the Father of Heaven. Thousands of pens are wielded in the service of a Christianity, which is not of Christ. Press and wireless daily force on you productions hostile to the Faith and to the Church, impudently aggressive against whatever you should hold venerable and sacred."

    "To all those who have kept their promised fidelity to their Bishops on the day of their ordination; to all those who in the exercise of their priestly function are called upon to suffer persecution; to all those imprisoned in jail and cσncєnтrαтισn cαмρs, the Father of the Christian world sends his words of gratitude and commendation."

    "Then We are sure, the enemies of the Church, who think that their time has come, will see that their joy was premature, and that they may close the grave they had dug. The day will come when the Te Deum of liberation will succeed to the premature hymns of the enemies of Christ: Te Deum of triumph and joy and gratitude, as the German people return to religion, bend the knee before Christ, and arming themselves against the enemies of God, again resume the task God has laid upon them."

    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Was Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg a German traitor or Catholic hero ?
    « Reply #70 on: November 08, 2017, 10:11:00 AM »
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  • The most satisfying lecture on Hilter's motivations came from the Cincinnati trad, Jim Condit.



    He theme is that Hitler was put into power by elite jews precisely to help herd the common jews back into Palestine.

    A crisis had to be made up to get them out of Europe and Hitler was the guy to do it.
    St. Pius X:  "The Jews have not recognized our Lord, therefore we cannot recognize the Jєωιѕн people. "

    Theodore Herzl:  "We are not asking for Jerusalem, but for Palestine—for only the secular land."

    St. Pius X:  "We cannot be in favor of it."

    **********************************************************************************************************

    The Tribe: We financed you all the way from Wall Street.  Now we expect your full cooperation in helping us fill up Palestine with you know who.

    Hitler:  Yes, yes, but of course.  I am at your service.


    Offline LeDeg

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    Re: Was Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg a German traitor or Catholic hero ?
    « Reply #71 on: November 08, 2017, 12:04:13 PM »
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  • The most satisfying lecture on Hilter's motivations came from the Cincinnati trad, Jim Condit.



    He theme is that Hitler was put into power by elite jews precisely to help herd the common jews back into Palestine.

    A crisis had to be made up to get them out of Europe and Hitler was the guy to do it.
    A crisis was made up?
    I suppose the state of the Germany during the Weimar "Republic" was made up? The political intrigue between the Zionists and British in the Balfour agreement was made up? The declaration of war by the Jews against Germany in 1933 was made up? The central bankers comprised of mostly Jews was made up? The creation of the Bolsheviks/Marxists and their plan to dominate Europe by systematically deposing the monarchs was made up? That Hitler kicked the bankers out and imprisoned a Rothschild was made up? How much more can I present?
    JayneK will give the video credence, but refuses to read a book that is quite enlightening and rely upon hearsay? Disingenuous to say the least.
    You know Jayne, you stated that you will listen to Pius XI over me. Fine. I will listen to someone who wasn't shielded by his entourage that was filled with Marxist sympathizers, men like Leon Degrelle. A man who was there in the halls and trenches. A man who took action and started a Catholic movement in Belgium, defended his people and Europe against the Marxists and died attending only the TLM until he died in 1994, and defended Hitler till the day he died. Franco praised him as a hero and loyal son of the Church.  
    I will not defend a scoundrel like Pacelli, who sided with the menace that undermined the Church after the war. The side that were Marxists, Zionists, Masons and the real enemies of the Church.
    Put the kool aid down folks, and learn. You have been duped. Just like you were at one time with Vatican II, the New Mass, etc., etc., etc.
    "You must train harder than the enemy who is trying to kill you. You will get all the rest you need in the grave."- Leon Degrelle

    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Was Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg a German traitor or Catholic hero ?
    « Reply #72 on: November 08, 2017, 12:13:53 PM »
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  • A crisis was made up?
    I suppose the state of the Germany during the Weimar "Republic" was made up? The political intrigue between the Zionists and British in the Balfour agreement was made up? The declaration of war by the Jews against Germany in 1933 was made up? The central bankers comprised of mostly Jews was made up? The creation of the Bolsheviks/Marxists and their plan to dominate Europe by systematically deposing the monarchs was made up? That Hitler kicked the bankers out and imprisoned a Rothschild was made up? How much more can I present?
    JayneK will give the video credence, but refuses to read a book that is quite enlightening and rely upon hearsay? Disingenuous to say the least.
    You know Jayne, you stated that you will listen to Pius XI over me. Fine. I will listen to someone who wasn't shielded by his entourage that was filled with Marxist sympathizers, men like Leon Degrelle. A man who was there in the halls and trenches. A man who took action and started a Catholic movement in Belgium, defended his people and Europe against the Marxists and died attending only the TLM until he died in 1994, and defended Hitler till the day he died. Franco praised him as a hero and loyal son of the Church.  
    I will not defend a scoundrel like Pacelli, who sided with the menace that undermined the Church after the war. The side that were Marxists, Zionists, Masons and the real enemies of the Church.
    Put the kool aid down folks, and learn. You have been duped. Just like you were at one time with Vatican II, the New Mass, etc., etc., etc.

    What did you think of the video?

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Was Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg a German traitor or Catholic hero ?
    « Reply #73 on: November 08, 2017, 12:33:27 PM »
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  • Why didn't Franco help Hitler, if he supported him?  Hitler helped Franco but not vice versa.  I am a WW2 illiterate; would like to know.

    Secondly, back to the question of Stauffenberg...if Hitler was a great guy and a good catholic, how come he allowed the perilous times endured by the germans in their own country (i.e. people being kidnapped at night, prison camps, etc)?  I don't see how he couldn't have been in control of this oppression and tyranny.

    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Was Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg a German traitor or Catholic hero ?
    « Reply #74 on: November 08, 2017, 12:41:23 PM »
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  • Why didn't Franco help Hitler, if he supported him?  Hitler helped Franco but not vice versa.  I am a WW2 illiterate; would like to know.

    Why not type in "Why didn't Franco help Hitler" into your Internet search bar and then begin to sort it out!