Author Topic: Was Christ Born on December 25th? (Read 1154 times)

Conspiracy_Factist · « **on:** January 03, 2015, 11:46:15 PM »

In my 1955 missal it states that the Church may have chosen the 25th Dec to replace the pagan holiday. As a Catholic we are to believe the 25th Dec is the day of Christ's birth or are we supposed to be of the thinking no one knows exactly the day of His birth and so since the 6 Dec was chosen by the Church we imply use that day?

here is some protestant argument , would be interested in your thoughts

http://rcg.org/books/ttooc.html

Was Christ Born on December 25th?

Christ was born in the fall of the year. Many have mistakenly believed He was born around the beginning of winter—December 25th! They are wrong! Notice the Adam Clarke Commentary, volume 5, page 370, New York edition: “It was custom among Jєωs to send out their sheep to the deserts about the Passover [early spring], and bring them home at the commencement of the first rain.” The first rains began in early-to-mid fall. Continuing with this same quote: “During the time they were out, the shepherds watched them night and day. As…the first rain began early in the month of March-esvan, which answers to part of our October and November [begins sometime in October], we find that the sheep were kept out in the open country during the whole summer. And as these shepherds had not yet brought home their flocks, it is a presumptive argument that October had not yet commenced, and that, consequently, our Lord was not born on the 25th of December, when no flocks were out in the fields; nor could He have been born later than September, as the flocks were still in the fields by night. On this very ground, the nativity in December should be given up. The feeding of the flocks by night in the fields is a chronological fact…See the quotations from the тαℓмυdists in Lightfoot.”

Luke 2:8 explains that when Christ was born, “And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.” Note that they were “abiding” in the field. This never happened in December. Both Ezra 10:9-13 and the Song of Solomon 2:11 show that winter was the rainy season and shepherds could not stay on cold, open fields at night.

Numerous encyclopedias plainly state that Christ was not born on December 25th! The Catholic Encyclopedia directly confirms this. In all likelihood, Christ was born in the fall! A lengthy technical explanation would prove this point.

Since we now know that December 25th was nowhere near Christ’s actual birthdate, where did the festival associated with this date come from?

Now read this quote under “Christmas”: “In the Roman world the Saturnalia (December 17) was a time of merrymaking and exchanging of gifts. December 25 was also regarded as the birth date of the Iranian mystery god Mithra, the Sun of Righteousness. On the Roman New Year (January 1), houses were decorated with greenery and lights, and gifts were given to children and the poor. To these observances were added the German and Celtic Yule rites when the Teutonic tribes penetrated into Gaul, Britain, and central Europe. Food and good fellowship, the Yule log and Yule cakes, greenery and fir trees, gifts and greetings all commemorated different aspects of this festive season. Fires and lights, symbols of warmth and lasting life, have always been associated with the winter festival, both pagan and Christian” (Encyclopaedia Britannica, 15th Edit. Vol. II, p. 903).

A final quote about the selection of December 25th as the birthdate of Christ is necessary. Note an article in The Toronto Star, December 1984, by Alan Edmonds, entitled, “We owe a lot to Druids, Dutch”: “The Reformation cast a blight on Christmas. By then, of course, clever ecclesiastical politicians had adopted the Pagan mid-winter festival as the alleged birthdate of Jesus, of Nazareth, and thrown in a few other Pagan goodies to make their takeover more palatable.”

December 25th was not selected because it was the birth of Christ or because it was even near it. It was selected because it coincided with the idolatrous pagan festival Saturnalia—and this celebration must be carefully examined. In any event, we do not know the exact date of Christ’s birth. While God certainly could have made it known, He chose to hide it from the world’s eyes!

Nishant · « **Reply #1 on:** January 04, 2015, 05:52:52 AM »

No, absolutely false. While it would not, perhaps, be a sin against divine Faith to carefully examine from different perspectives the historical grounds of the tradition that Dec. 25th is really the birth date of Our Savior, it cannot be dismissed by Catholics in the crude and cynical manner done in the link above.

Let the weight of authority of St. Augustine suffice, "For Christ is believed to have been conceived on the 25th of March, upon which day also he suffered; so the womb of the Virgin, in which he was conceived, where no one of mortals was begotten, corresponds to the new grave in which he was buried, wherein was never man laid, neither before him nor since. But he was born, according to tradition, upon December the 25th." at least as a credible human testimony. St. Augustine is no lightweight, nor is he likely to be deceived on a matter of such importance, he would not make such a statement, unless there were a solid historical tradition on which he relied, which therefore we also can safely trust.

Contrary to Protestant propaganda, St. Hippolytus had already written around 210 A.D. that "The First Advent of our Lord in the flesh occurred when He was born in Bethlehem, was December 25th". The ancients believed the world was created on March 25th, as noted above, and many of the Fathers held that Christ was of a perfect and integral age at His Death, i.e. that His Passion and Death was at the same time as His Incarnation and Conception, on the same day of March 25th. Nine months later, He was born on Dec. 25th. This is mentioned by Dom Gueranger and others as well.

This link provides a simple Biblical argument - we know Christ was conceived about 6 months after St. John the Baptist. We know the rough time the Precursor was conceived based on the time his father was in the Temple, which occurred during the priestly course of Abias, (see Lk 1:5, Neh 12:17), and taken together, we arrive at a speculative date for Christmas, from Scripture itself. It may surprise the Protestants, but it doesn't surprise Catholics that this date comes roughly around the period of the end of December, and history and tradition closes any remaining doubt.

Although this does not make it a dogma compelling the assent of Faith, we certainly have good historical grounds, and can consequently have moral certitude, that Dec. 25th really is the day when our Savior was born, and the Protestant propaganda in the link above is rash and impious at best.

rcentros · « **Reply #2 on:** January 04, 2015, 07:50:38 AM »

A link that reinforces what Nishant wrote ...

http://taylormarshall.com/2012/12/yes-christ-was-really-born-on-december.html

Our Lord was born on December 25th. Fact not fiction.

Conspiracy_Factist · « **Reply #3 on:** January 04, 2015, 08:58:11 AM »

thanks to you both for the responses, I do agree..I'm just puzzled as to why on page 60 of my 1955 St. Joseph missal it states "This feast may have been instituted at this date to replace a pagan feast which honoured the Sun

Iuvenalis · « **Reply #4 on:** January 04, 2015, 10:40:16 AM »

Sorry for the awful guitar music, but this video is interesting. The actual meat of the content starts around 1:30 after some preface nonsense, but skip to 1:30ish
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10151373484913674&id=469741369712413

TKGS · « **Reply #5 on:** January 04, 2015, 11:24:05 AM »

Quote from: Conspiracy_Factist

thanks to you both for the responses, I do agree..I'm just puzzled as to why on page 60 of my 1955 St. Joseph missal it states "This feast may have been instituted at this date to replace a pagan feast which honoured the Sun

I think it is because, even in 1955, Modernism was beginning to show itself publicly.

I have a book, The Dates of the Birth and Death of Jesus Christ, By General Hugues de Nanteuil, which presents a very good argument that the actual date of Christ's birth was December 25, 1 BC. I bought the book from Tradibooks (http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/tradibooks?searchTerms=&pageOffset=3)

Dana · « **Reply #6 on:** January 04, 2015, 03:21:22 PM »

Not sure of the Catholic background on Mr. Antonio Yague, but his video on the Star of Bethlehem considering the signs the Magi followed, is very interesting. He also says the birth of Jesus was Dec. 25, although 2 BC, based on sacred astronomy. Does anyone have info to clarify the 2BC vs. 1BC theories?

It is worth a careful listen...although the clip is slow-moving. Birth-date part after about minute 30.