Do Catholics have a wake even if the family member committed ѕυιcιdє?

Well, the Church traditionally didn't even offer a Requiem Mass for a ѕυιcιdє...

You're talking about the funeral equivalent of a wedding with a 7-month-pregnant bride. In other words, a small, close family only, private affair.

Both situations are shameful, and something to be ashamed of. The modern world says don't be ashamed of anything. Fornicator? Adulterer? Had an abortion? Guilty of sodomy? Be proud, stand tall, hold your head high and tell it to the world!

We Catholics disagree with the modern world -- strongly -- on this matter.

Quote from: Disputaciones

Do Catholics have a wake even if the family member committed ѕυιcιdє?

Well, the Church traditionally didn't even offer a Requiem Mass for a ѕυιcιdє...

You're talking about the funeral equivalent of a wedding with a 7-month-pregnant bride. In other words, a small, close family only, private affair.

Both situations are shameful, and something to be ashamed of. The modern world says don't be ashamed of anything. Fornicator? Adulterer? Had an abortion? Guilty of sodomy? Be proud, stand tall, hold your head high and tell it to the world!

We Catholics disagree with the modern world -- strongly -- on this matter.

I see.

I'm in my twenties and I was born and raised in the Novus Ordo so I don't know how many things were or are supposed to be, but I did suspect there was no point having a wake for such a person.

I was curious about this because last night my parents went to the wake of someone who shot himself with a shotgun on the chest, so I was thinking about this.

The new code of course changed the old one and now ѕυιcιdєs can be buried on cemeteries.

It's all fair game in the Novus Ordo now.

Quote from: Neil Obstat

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Quote

You're talking about the funeral equivalent of a wedding with a 7-month-pregnant bride. In other words, a small, close family only, private affair.

How about a wedding with a 4-month-pregnant bride?

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You mean a wedding where the bride isn't "showing" yet?
Still, everyone's going to find out eventually when you have a healthy, full-term, 7 to 9 pound baby 5 months after the wedding...

I don't know if the Church has any regulations on this. That, and what is best for society, is really all that matters.

The Catholic Church doesn't like to do weddings where the bride is pregnant. The possibility of coercion invalidates the freedom of the consent.
If the bride was pregnant is a question on the annulment forms.

Quote from: Matthew

Quote from: Neil Obstat

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Quote

You're talking about the funeral equivalent of a wedding with a 7-month-pregnant bride. In other words, a small, close family only, private affair.

How about a wedding with a 4-month-pregnant bride?

.

You mean a wedding where the bride isn't "showing" yet?
Still, everyone's going to find out eventually when you have a healthy, full-term, 7 to 9 pound baby 5 months after the wedding...

I don't know if the Church has any regulations on this. That, and what is best for society, is really all that matters.

The Catholic Church doesn't like to do weddings where the bride is pregnant. The possibility of coercion invalidates the freedom of the consent.
If the bride was pregnant is a question on the annulment forms.

That's because the Novus Ordo has completely skewed the notion of "coercion" and "consent" in order to ease annulments.  Consent is normally a very low bar.  You basically just have to know what you're doing and agree to do it.  Whether one's will has been influenced by certain external circuмstances or pressures, this does not negate the free will.  Coercion in the past used to pretty much mean "shot gun wedding".

I am so Lucky. There has been no record of a Family member committing
ѕυιcιdє. They died mostly of old age and some died of accidents.
And they were all Protestants.
ѕυιcιdєs is unique to the 20th and 21st Century because lack of
Religion. Encouragements of ѕυιcιdєs by the theaters, movies and
the mass media. And the stresses caused by our fast moving times
and technologies that are making many jobs obsolete.  Workers
because of intellectual limitations cannot keep up.  And many
Governments are getting onboard with the right to die movements.
And many more can be added.
The church forbids any sort of wakes of those that committed
ѕυιcιdє because it would be a scandal to those that are living.
It is safely assumed that they went to hell.
Never mind what the novus ordo church now teaches.

Quote from: RomanCatholic1953

The church forbids any sort of wakes of those that committed
ѕυιcιdє because it would be a scandal to those that are living.
It is safely assumed that they went to hell.
Never mind what the novus ordo church now teaches.

The church has never forbidden a wake .  The church forbid Christian burial.

It is NOT safe to assume ANYONE went to hell !
The church has not even stated at anytime that any specific person (including Judas) was in hell.

I don't think your statement about the Church's position on Judas is correct.  I believe the Church Fathers have taught that it is divinely revealed that Judas is in fact in hell.  There is no extraordinary act of the magisterium which puts Judas in hell but this is a good example of where the ordinary magisterium is infallible.  We can be certain that Judas is in hell because it has been the constant teaching of the Church since apostolic times.  If you have any doubts about it we have the very nearly infallibly certain principal that the truth will always be the opposite of whatever the Conciliar Church is teaching.  And it was only a few years ago that there was some noise coming from Rome that Judas was going to be rehabilitated by the Conciliar pope.

I don't think there is any harm in having a very strong suspicion that a ѕυιcιdє went to hell.  I can understand if family and friends hold out hope that there was some mitigating factor which relieved the ѕυιcιdє of culpability but I don't think the general public is under any obligation one way or the other.  The safest thing is to assume that ѕυιcιdє does result in condemnation to hell.  That way we are less likely to ever conclude that it is a viable option for ourselves.

Don't forget, the Colorado theater shooter was found guilty!  He was known to be mentally ill but nevertheless he was found guilty because it was determined that he could still understand that his actions were wrong.  Same thing for ѕυιcιdєs.  They might not be culpable if they are so mentally ill that they are unable to understand that what they are doing is evil.  But then again they might be.  If they were smart enough to kill themselves, maybe they were smart enough to know it was wrong.

Also, the traditional rule is that a public Mass cannot be offered for a ѕυιcιdє.  Ever.  You can ask a priest to offer a Mass for a private intention (and you can tell the priest it is for the ѕυιcιdє) and he will offer it but it can never officially be for a ѕυιcιdє.

As far as the wake goes, I don't think there is anything wrong with having a wake.  Originally the wake was for making sure the individual was really dead and not just sleeping.  Now it is an opportunity to comfort and support the surviving family members and friends.

I recently had a scare where the uncle of my sister's husband committed ѕυιcιdє.  I definitely was not going to the NO funeral but I didn't really want to go to the wake either but I think I would have.  But he was unmarried and the funeral was arranged by his brother who scheduled the wake and funeral for a late weekday morning.  Thus ensuring that no one would go except for a handful of the closest family.  God bless him for that move.  There are some NO Catholics who still get it (at least partly).  I did have 1 private intention Mass said for him but that's it.  I have little hope that he is not in hell.  I still hope but mostly I try not to think about it at all.  Oh and the other difficult thing was that I am in the habit of giving Catholic people (even NO people) Mass cards for their loved ones.  In this case, I just sent a sympathy card with no religious sentiments at all.  Sad.

We are the gifted few whom have the gift of the True Faith. All
our lives we lived through the stresses of the 20th and 21st
Centuries.
A Wake usually would be held at the Funeral Parlor for a ѕυιcιdє
victim. NOT IN A CATHOLIC CHURCH.
It is assumed that all Catholics knows the teachings of the Church,
and knows that ѕυιcιdє is a grave evil.
This is the way I was taught when I attended Catholic Schools.
Those that thumbs down my post need to apologize.