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Author Topic: Virgin of Guadalupe - December 12th - mananitas  (Read 3433 times)

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Offline Neil Obstat

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Virgin of Guadalupe - December 12th - mananitas
« on: December 10, 2012, 05:15:31 PM »
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  • I stopped in at a local Novus Ordo parish yesterday on the way home
    from Mass to see what the news is and what the plans are for Tuesday
    night, that is, tomorrow.  Every year on the evening of December 11th,
    certain parishes all over the world, apparently, mostly in Mexico, leave
    the church open all night long as people come and go, many bringing
    flowers to Our Lady, and many singing songs they learned as a child,
    taught to them by their grandparents who were taught by their
    grandparents who were taught by their grandparents, and so on, back
    20 generations.  

    This will be the 481st anniversary of the miraculous Image on the tilma
    of Juan Diego - make that Saint Juan Diego.  But the celebrations are
    already starting today and even yesterday, because it was on December
    9th that the Aztec man first saw her standing on Tepeyac Hill near Mexico
    City in A.D. 1531, and it took 3 days for all the details to transpire to the
    point where he had shown the bouquet of Castilian roses to Bishop Juan
    de Zumarraga, who had asked for "a sign" from the Lady.

    The Bishop had asked Juan Diego to bring him a sign from the "lady" he
    had seen, and so obediently, he went to ask her for a sign.

    But Juan Diego did not know that the bishop, who had been facing a lot
    of serious problems in his diocese, problems far beyond his control or
    ability to deal with them, had been fervently praying in private to the
    Mother of God to help him, and that he had secretly asked her to make
    the Castilian rose the secret sign to him that her answer had arrived.  

    So, when Juan Diego came with his flowers, he was already rather
    worried and afraid, for the guards had made him wait for a very long
    time outside, not allowing him to come indoors.  And while he had waited,
    the guards had teased him:  "Hey, little man!  What are you holding in
    your tilma?  Do you think you can sneak in to see the Bishop without
    our inspection?  We must check to be sure you're not holding something
    dangerous!  Here:  let us examine your bundle before you can enter."  
    And they pulled at his arms, and he resisted them.  Because the lady
    on the hill had personally arranged the miraculous flowers that she had
    asked Juan Diego to pick for her.  And Juan Diego had not believed that
    there were any flowers to be found, but when he had climbed the hill
    in obedience to the most beautiful Aztec princess appearing before him,
    he indeed had found flowers growing where only cacti and rocks had
    ever grown before.  But they were not just flowers, they were the most
    beautiful roses he had ever seen!  But they were not just beautiful roses,
    they were shimmering and glowing as if on fire with energy unknown to
    him, looking like Jєωels in a dream.  But it was not a dream.  It was one
    miracle upon another miracle upon another miracle, and if it had not been
    for the soft, soothing voice of the Virgin, he would have no doubt lost his
    mind.  It would have been too munch for him.  He had brought her the
    flowers as she had requested, and she spoke to him as she gently
    arranged them in his arms, requesting his utmost diligence in keeping
    them arranged just so for the Bishop, because it was this special manner
    of the flowers' presentation that would be the very "sign" that the
    Bishop had asked him for.  

    As he tried to wait patiently outside, he tried to obey the Virgin's
    message to him to protect the arrangement of the flowers, but the guards
    were pulling his arms much to Juan Diego's distress.  They did not
    relent, and seeing that he was hiding flowers, they demanded to see
    them.  "I would like to take one of your flowers to my sweetheart!  Give
    me one to take to her!"  After a while, they finally managed to pull his
    one arm out and away from his chest, and what did they see?  The guards
    leaped back in fear, for the flowers that had been right there were
    suddenly not flowers at all, but merely the image of flowers on his
    tilma!  It was the same arrangement, but "untouchable" and impossible
    for contact by one who had designs of evil against its integrity.  The
    arrangement would not be defiled!  The guards spoke to each other
    and made a plan, to try again, and lo! The same thing happened again -
    as they presumed to reach in and grab a rose, they all became as a
    picture, an illusion, an icon of roses that are visible but not reachable.

    In their frustration, they conducted Juan Diego in to see the Bishop,
    explaining to him that this man was harboring some very strange roses.  
    And the Bishop's hopes were enkindled:  is this finally the answer he
    had been waiting for, the answer from the Mother of our Redeemer, on
    this day only two weeks before Christmas and only 4 days after Her
    Feast Day of Her Immaculate Conception?  He did not tell anyone, but
    he pondered these things in his heart.  And he felt a very close bond
    with the Mother of Christ who had pondered the mysteries of God so
    long ago in her own heart, her Immaculate Heart.  

    Juan Diego approached him as he sat in his elevated chair, and the
    Bishop asked him,  "What do you have to show me, my son?"  Slowly,
    and carefully, Juan Diego moved his tilma sides to reveal the most
    important bouquet, as the Bishop set eyes on the answer to his prayers.
    He knew Castilian roses, for he had helped his family grow them as a
    child in Spain so many years before.  But he had not seen any such
    rose in Mexico, where they were not to be found, across the Atlantic
    Ocean from their homeland.  The moment of opening his tilma seemed
    to take a long time, a moment hanging in time as though time itself
    was in awe of what was happening.  Juan Diego was already afraid after
    seeing his roses become as an image of roses on his tilma outside, and
    he wasn't too sure if he could endure any more miracles all in one day!

    Therefore, as he carefully opened his tilma, what he saw struck him with
    the most severe shock he could have imagined, for this time, not the
    image of the flower arrangement, but rather the Image of the Most
    Beautiful Princess Herself appeared on his tilma!  He could not believe
    his eyes, and the impact of this thought struck his mind's eye with such
    a powerful blow that he lost his composure, and did the unthinkable.

    He dropped the flowers!

    The Most Importand Arrangement was lost!  It fell to the floor and he
    began to weep uncontrollably.  With tears streaming down his cheeks,
    he looked up to see that the Bishop had fallen as well to the floor,
    with the flowers, and he knelt there in front of Juan Diego, with hands
    clasped in prayer before the Miraculous Image of the Virgin Herself.

    451 years later, a respected ophthamologist would look through his
    instruments, the ones that he uses to examine the lenses of his patients'
    eyes, only this time he would be looking into the eyes of the Virgin's
    Image on the tilma of Juan Diego, and what would he see?  He would
    see what he sees when he looks into any other patient's eyes!  The
    image he saw was as if he were examining the eyes of a living patient,
    even though this was an image hundreds of years old.  And in this
    image of Her eyes, the doctor could see the reflection on the surfaces,
    as it were, of the eye lenses, and in this reflection he could make out
    the figures of several people in a room.  It was Bishop Juan de
    Zumarraga, kneeling on the floor, and the guards standing in a posture
    of surprise.  But this is the only tilma that survives from that age long
    ago, for the material from which it is made is not a durable fabric, but
    one woven from the fibers of a cactus plant, and these fibers only
    keep their form for about 30 years before they fall apart.  That is to say,
    the tilm of Juan Diego should not exist.  It should have fallen into dust
    400 years ago.  The doctor is seeing a miracle in his instruments, and
    the miracle is occurring on a miraculous fabric.  It is a miracle upon
    another miracle.  But such things are nothing new for the Virgin of
    Guadalupe.  For miracles follow her like cars in a train.  It is as though
    the miracles cannot do otherwise than to follow her, wherever she goes.
    She leaves miracles in her wake like confetti or the sparkling stars from
    fireworks.  There seems to be no end to her miracles.  Nor should there
    be.

    Her miraculous Image was put up for all to see, and local people came
    from all directions every day, without fail, for years and years;  people
    who waited in line to bring flowers to the Virgin, and when they came
    up close to her and looked at her beauty, they received the Faith of
    Her Son in an instant.  They were converted on the spot, one after
    another, miracle upon miracle, like cars in a train or confetti falling from
    the sky.  They all asked to be baptized.  It took about 9 years to get
    through all these baptisms, about one million each year.  It was all the
    priests could do to keep up with the relentless traffic of new Catholics.  
    This was during the years when 9 million Germans were abandoning
    the Faith to follow the false doctrines of Martin Luther.  Bishop Juan de
    Zumarraga's hands were very sore.  They were baptizing from the time
    he arose in the morning until he retired at night, and so too were the
    hands of his assistant priests.  They had spent years trying to spread
    the faith and had had no success due to their own efforts.  But now,
    "they enclosed a great multitude of fish and their net broke" (Lk v. 6).

    Miracles followed upon miracles.

    The pilgrims came back year after year, and Juan Diego lived there.  He
    would take groups of pilgrims to all the places where he had been and
    where all these things happened and he would tell them in his own
    words, until the day he died.  It was his life, for he had been transformed,
    a new man.  The Mother of God called his name and he had answered
    her call with his very life.

    After he was gone, the pilgrims continued to come.  They came for years
    and decades and centuries.  They have been coming all along, and they
    still come to this day.. They come to the local shrines to the Virgin of
    Guadalupe, the Virgin of miracles, the Virgin of Tepeyac Hill.  

    These are not simple times.  But you know, the times were not simple
    for the Bishop in 1531, either!  Today we have a different problem, but
    it's really the same problem.  The mystery of iniquity does not sleep.

    Today, the same Aztec dancers that used to cavort around the stone
    altar where the devil-worshipping priest would cut out live, beating
    hearts from the living bodies of their victims using a razor sharp stone
    knife made of black, shiny obsidian, a glass-like volcanic rock, these
    same dancers kick and turn, bow and wiggle, all the way up the center
    aisle of the Novus Ordo parish churches on the Feast Day of the Virgin
    Herself, December 12th.  I had a friend who accused me:  "You can't
    prove that those feather head-dress dancers are wearing the same
    costumes that the pagans wore 500 years ago!"  Let him with eyes to
    see and ears to hear understand.  "For the mystery of iniquity already
    worketh" (II Thes. ii. 7).  

    Today, the same Mariachis that the Freemasons hire, blast their trumpets
    and strum their profane instruments right next to the priest facing the
    people at mass.  Now, I can enjoy mariachi music as well as the next
    guy, but not at Mass!  They use microphones and amplifiers and crank it
    up to 60 decibels during the Offertory.  Uuuh....... Not a good idea! I
    would say the Virgin is not impressed with her wayward children's antics.

    The people who come look confused.  They are there because it's there,
    but would they have it that way?  The crowds get very thick the evening
    of December 11th, and you won't find a parking space near the church.
    There will be standing room only:  outside!  You know, like Juan Diego
    had at the Bishop's office.  People will come and stay inside the church
    for hours at a time, spontaneously singing songs to our Lady, songs that
    they recall learning from their abuelo and abuelita over half a century
    ago.  That would be before the changes from Vatican II.  There is
    something magical about the crowd.  You would think that a crowd like
    that would be edgy or nervous or unforgiving, but it's none of that.  How
    can there be no room left, and yet, someone inside who has to use the
    restroom can leave to do so without any problem, and then return to his
    seat, passing through the crowd again, without any problem?  I told a
    friend who works with problem youths, that the gang members respect
    the Virgin of Guadalupe, and he told me "They had better!"

    I'm writing this missive to let you know, if you've read this far, that if
    you are so fortunate as to have a place to go, a place where they are
    having mananitas tomorrow night,  you should go.  You should lose a
    couple hours' sleep, and go between 10:00 pm and 3:00 am, because if
    you have never done so, you won't believe your eyes.  Remember how
    Juan Diego could not believe his eyes?  Well, now, it's YOUR turn!  

    Bring some walking shoes, and figure on parking 220 yards away.  That's
    an eighth of a mile.  It's good exercise.   You don't have to bring any
    flowers if you don't want to,  for there is going to be plenty there already.
    You won't be able to get any closer than 20 feet away from the Image.

    You should talk to people, outside of church, of course, and listen to
    what they have to say.  You're not going to find anyone there who does
    not have a sincere love for the Lady of Graces, the Star of the Sea,
    Mystical Rose and Tower of Ivory.  Our Lady Help of Christians is there
    to help the Christians.  Our Lady of Perpetual Help perpetually helps.
    Our Lady of Good Success proffers good success.  

    I have a friend who doesn't want to go, and he's Mexican.  He's a trad,
    and he does not enjoy it when evangelicals try to "convert" him to their
    way of carrying on.  I told him, that if you go to mananitas, nobody is
    going to be urging you to do something.  You can quietly pray your
    rosary.  But it's nice to see people of all walks of life who come to give
    a little love to our Heavenly Mother.  They sing songs you've never
    heard before, and they sound pretty good, all-in-all.  They sound a lot
    better than the Mariachis!  

    If you don't go, you won't know.  And it only happens once a year.  And
    you never know if you will have another year.... do you?




    Oh --- I almost forgot:

    this year, it's 12-12-12................ three times is the number of the Trinity....



    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline michaela benedicta

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    Virgin of Guadalupe - December 12th - mananitas
    « Reply #1 on: December 10, 2012, 10:39:59 PM »
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  • WOW!!! All I can say is "WOW!!"
    Thank you to infinity for posting this!!!!
    Wonderful story, thank you again!! Everyone should read this!

    Love,
    michaela b. +
     :pray:

    "God's power is made perfect in infirmity" --St. Paul


    Offline 1st Mansion Tenant

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    Virgin of Guadalupe - December 12th - mananitas
    « Reply #2 on: December 11, 2012, 01:11:54 PM »
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  • Thanks, Neil

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Virgin of Guadalupe - December 12th - mananitas
    « Reply #3 on: December 11, 2012, 06:08:29 PM »
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  • You're welcome.

    This topic has been stirring in my heart for a number of years and I just
    got to the point where I had to say something.  I would like to mention
    that it was very easy to type, as though I didn't have to think much about
    what I was saying.  That's not normal for me, as composition does not
    come easily.  I never did well in English class at school.  I have read a
    number of source books on Juan Diego and the apparitions and through
    it all, it seems they get to a point and then strangely skip over this one
    thing:  Why did he drop the flowers?  I know a number of Mexican men  
    very well, and a common trait of their character and manner of dealing
    with controversy is:  they refrain from admitting to a moment of weakness.
    It is known as "machismo" which means a macho-complex, so to speak.

    It makes them colorful and interesting, but it can be a bit of a hindrance
    to their acceptability in the American social structure, it seems to me.  It
    is not a character flaw, but a kind of cultural phenomenon, a thing that
    tends to make them seem a little "different," but to some extent, all men
    have this, really.  Perhaps among Mexican men they find it more difficult
    to control, is all.  Now, in the case of San Juan Diego, his most prominent
    feature is his stark humility, which is a contrast to this machismo to which
    I refer, but there are clues in the literature that point to his inherent
    subjectivity that cannot easily escape this nuance of his race in general.

    And that is the key that suggests to me the reason that he dropped
    those precious flowers, for that is not something he would have done
    without thought, as if distracted.  His attention was always first and
    foremost on his protection of the bouquet while he held it, for to him it
    was a symbol of his personal encounter with the most beautiful person
    in the history of the universe.  And therefore it is quite understandable,
    all considered.

    I do hope that someone, having read this, will decide to go to the
    mananitas in their town, and come back to report here their experience
    tomorrow.  

    I will be going very soon myself, and I have not been for several years.
    This was going to be the year that I got together a group to do a little
    procession, "outside," in commemoration of the time that San Juan Diego
    spent waiting for the Bishop so many years ago.  I have all the parts I
    need to make the Very Impressive Bier that would be the center of the
    procession, but for years, I have been unable to "get it together,"
    somehow.  Plus, I am afraid that my most excellent Image would be
    subject to damage by the sons of satan looking on.  


    There is something about the Virgin Who Crushes the Head of the Stone
    Serpent, that touches the heart, and this is something that you can see
    in the eyes of those who come to mananitas.  You have to go and see it
    for yourself, because there are no words to describe it, only words to
    describe the effects that it manifests in real time, because IT is something
    that is outside of time..................



    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Virgin of Guadalupe - December 12th - mananitas
    « Reply #4 on: December 11, 2012, 06:12:05 PM »
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  • Quote from: michaela benedicta
    WOW!!! All I can say is "WOW!!"
    Thank you to infinity for posting this!!!!
    Wonderful story, thank you again!! Everyone should read this!

    Love,
    michaela b. +
     :pray:



    To "infinity?"  Wow.  That's a lot!




    I thought your avatar was an American Express card!  HAHAHAHAHA


    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Virgin of Guadalupe - December 12th - mananitas
    « Reply #5 on: December 11, 2012, 06:43:57 PM »
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  • Images of the Image:










    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Sigismund

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    Virgin of Guadalupe - December 12th - mananitas
    « Reply #6 on: December 11, 2012, 07:07:35 PM »
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  • Much to my astonishment, a local Episcopal church is celebrating the feast of Our Lay of Guadalupe.

    I am not sure what to make of that.  
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

    Offline michaela benedicta

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    Virgin of Guadalupe - December 12th - mananitas
    « Reply #7 on: December 11, 2012, 09:24:06 PM »
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  • Thank you to infinity AGAIN for the beautiful images! Especially the third one, have never seen an Our Lady of Guadalupe like that one.

    American Express! Ha ha ha! You are so right.. I can't see on my phone, but can the words be read on my avatar? If not, I will have to change it.  :facepalm:

    Pax et Bonum,

    michaela +
     :laugh1:

    "God's power is made perfect in infirmity" --St. Paul


    Offline Hobbledehoy

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    Virgin of Guadalupe - December 12th - mananitas
    « Reply #8 on: December 12, 2012, 01:09:23 AM »
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  • Happy Feast Day of Our Lady of Guadalupe!









    From a Supplement containing the proper Masses for the Feasts observed throughout the Dioceses of the American Republic, found in The Saint Andrew Daily Missal with Vespers for Sundays and Feasts by Dom Gaspar Lefebvre, O.S.B., and the Monks of the Abbey of St. Andrew (Saint Paul, MN: The E. M. Lohmann Co., 1959), here are Mass and Vespers for the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe.












































    Please ignore all that I have written regarding sedevacantism.

    Offline chrstnoel1

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    Virgin of Guadalupe - December 12th - mananitas
    « Reply #9 on: December 12, 2012, 02:34:11 AM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat
    Images of the Image:












    Thanks again Neil, for this beautiful pictures of Our Blessed Mother and also for the lengthy post. May Our Lady of Guadalupe and Juan Diego bless you for your wonderful effort. :incense:

    If I may mention here, I did upload a short video on Our Lady of Guadalupe entitled "ONCE ON A BARREN HILL" sometime back. It's about 40mins and could be found on my youtube channel.
    "It is impious to say, 'I respect every religion.' This is as much as to say: I respect the devil as much as God, vice as much as virtue, falsehood as much as truth, dishonesty as much as honesty, Hell as much as Heaven."
    Fr. Michael Muller, The Church and Her Enemies

    Offline cassini

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    Virgin of Guadalupe - December 12th - mananitas
    « Reply #10 on: December 12, 2012, 05:23:20 AM »
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  • My God, my Blessed Virgin, what a read. I confess to sobbing, me a grown man, what an effect the story has on the soul. I will never forget it. It is as real today as it was then. Jesus and Mary, you are still with us, suffering no doubt at the state of the world and the decline of His Church.
    Thanks Neil.


    Offline Geremia

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    Virgin of Guadalupe - December 12th - mananitas
    « Reply #11 on: December 13, 2012, 01:58:06 AM »
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  • Quote from: Hobbledehoy
    From a Supplement containing the proper Masses for the Feasts observed throughout the Dioceses of the American Republic, found in The Saint Andrew Daily Missal with Vespers for Sundays and Feasts by Dom Gaspar Lefebvre, O.S.B., and the Monks of the Abbey of St. Andrew (Saint Paul, MN: The E. M. Lohmann Co., 1959), here are Mass and Vespers for the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe.
    Is there a full scan available of the St. Andrew Missal, or did you scan this yourself? Thanks
    St. Isidore e-book library: https://isidore.co/calibre

    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    Virgin of Guadalupe - December 12th - mananitas
    « Reply #12 on: December 13, 2012, 07:49:00 AM »
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  • this photo was taken by my Dad while in Mexico in 1955.

    Offline Elizabeth

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    Virgin of Guadalupe - December 12th - mananitas
    « Reply #13 on: December 13, 2012, 10:48:15 AM »
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  •  :pray:

    Offline Hobbledehoy

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    Virgin of Guadalupe - December 12th - mananitas
    « Reply #14 on: December 13, 2012, 08:45:16 PM »
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  • Quote from: Geremia
    Quote from: Hobbledehoy
    From a Supplement containing the proper Masses for the Feasts observed throughout the Dioceses of the American Republic, found in The Saint Andrew Daily Missal with Vespers for Sundays and Feasts by Dom Gaspar Lefebvre, O.S.B., and the Monks of the Abbey of St. Andrew (Saint Paul, MN: The E. M. Lohmann Co., 1959), here are Mass and Vespers for the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe.



    Is there a full scan available of the St. Andrew Missal, or did you scan this yourself? Thanks


    Hello Geremia!

    I manually scan, edit and upload everything I present from my tomes, including the illustrations, and this rare and out-of-print edition of the St. Andrew Missal, together with its Supplements for the Dioceses of the United States, England, Wales, Scotland and Canada, is the tome from whence I derive much material. It is a very time-consuming process, and I get behind most of the times due to a hectic and exhausting work schedule (I'm a day-laborer and have many responsibilities for which to be solicitous on behalf of my ol' folks, so time is always as scarce as money in my predicament).

    Only on CathInfo can you find my scans and anything else I post. I participate in no other forum, nor do I have a personal blog or a social networking account of any sort (sorry people, but I have never and perhaps shan't ever "tweet:" last time I checked, I am not a bird).

    God bless!

    Please ignore all that I have written regarding sedevacantism.