Author Topic: valid marriage question (Read 2221 times)

steelcross · « **on:** December 08, 2015, 12:59:33 PM »

I need some understanding. I know thatan annulment is not a divorce, but a process to see if a mmarriage is valid.
If a marriage took place at a catholic church, yet the bride was not ready for marriage and tells the priest before, stating she isn't ready for marriage, yet the groom pushes on with no real interest in the marriage, then wouldthat marriage be iinvalid?

Thank you in advance.

Stubborn · « **Reply #1 on:** December 08, 2015, 01:37:33 PM »

Did they both freely say, "I do"?

If so, then it's until death do they part.

steelcross · « **Reply #2 on:** December 08, 2015, 02:53:35 PM »

But she was pressured also by her father.

songbird · « **Reply #3 on:** December 08, 2015, 03:06:04 PM »

Ask for the file in the church of your marriage. The Priest is should give his comments of the couple BEFORE the marriage. Hopefully the priest put that comment in. Also, in the meantime, get testimonies of those who would support you stating...

Then we shall see if there is validity.

Stubborn · « **Reply #4 on:** December 08, 2015, 03:09:29 PM »

Pressured doesn't matter, threatened might matter, depending on the threat.

If the vows were made and the marriage was valid - nothing in heaven or on earth can nullify it till one or the other dies.

songbird · « **Reply #5 on:** December 08, 2015, 09:50:16 PM »

Married in New Order or Traditional? I am guessing New Order. A New Order priest would not take you seriously and I picture and traditional priest would have held off.

You would best talk to a true traditional priest to get a true answer.

poche · « **Reply #6 on:** December 08, 2015, 10:50:42 PM »

Quote from: steelcross

I need some understanding. I know thatan annulment is not a divorce, but a process to see if a mmarriage is valid.
If a marriage took place at a catholic church, yet the bride was not ready for marriage and tells the priest before, stating she isn't ready for marriage, yet the groom pushes on with no real interest in the marriage, then wouldthat marriage be iinvalid?

Thank you in advance.

If the bride told the priest that she wasn't ready for marriage tehn why did the priest go through with it?

poche · « **Reply #7 on:** December 08, 2015, 10:58:31 PM »

Quote from: steelcross

But she was pressured also by her father.

Define "pressure." If she can make the case that she was coerced into agreeing to the marriage then it could receive a declaration of nullity. In order for a marriage to be valid the consent must be freely given.
She should see a canon lawyer if she is looking for an annulment.

Stubborn · « **Reply #8 on:** December 09, 2015, 03:33:42 AM »

Quote from: poche

Quote from: steelcross
But she was pressured also by her father.

Define "pressure." If she can make the case that she was coerced into agreeing to the marriage then it could receive a declaration of nullity. In order for a marriage to be valid the consent must be freely given.
She should see a canon lawyer if she is looking for an annulment.

By all means consult a trad priest, but pre-V2, if both parties were free to marry and made their vows, that marriage is presumed valid unless proven otherwise.

It is much more likely that if any impediments were discovered by the marriage tribunal, a dispensation would be granted in order to preserve the marriage, particularly if consummated or if the couple have children together.

That is the way it used to work, the Church bent over backwards to preserve the marriage, hence the dignity of the sacrament, these days it seems to work the other way around.

Peter15and1 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 09, 2015, 02:53:12 PM »

Quote from: steelcross

But she was pressured also by her father.

As stated by others, it depends on exactly what this "pressure" consisted of. While parents cannot compel their children to marry or threaten them into it (any any such marriage would likely be invalid), encouragement, inducement, etc., likely will not invalidate the marriage.

Maria Elizabeth · « **Reply #10 on:** December 09, 2015, 03:25:08 PM »

Quote from: poche

Quote from: steelcross
But she was pressured also by her father.

Define "pressure." If she can make the case that she was coerced into agreeing to the marriage then it could receive a declaration of nullity. In order for a marriage to be valid the consent must be freely given.
She should see a canon lawyer if she is looking for an annulment.

Yes. It is my understanding that a "shotgun marriage" -- like the ones that at least used to be found in the Protestant South -- is null and void, I.e. Invalid.

("Shotgun marriage" --> the bride's father pointing a shotgun at the groom to make him say "I do" because the groom compromised the bride)

steelcross · « **Reply #11 on:** December 09, 2015, 04:47:16 PM »

Thank yyou all for your input. From what Iwas told, her then fiancee oonly married her to get citizenship, there was no desirefrom hhim to have children .

poche · « **Reply #12 on:** December 09, 2015, 11:10:42 PM »

Quote from: Stubborn

Quote from: poche
Quote from: steelcross
But she was pressured also by her father.

Define "pressure." If she can make the case that she was coerced into agreeing to the marriage then it could receive a declaration of nullity. In order for a marriage to be valid the consent must be freely given.
She should see a canon lawyer if she is looking for an annulment.

By all means consult a trad priest, but pre-V2, if both parties were free to marry and made their vows, that marriage is presumed valid unless proven otherwise.

It is much more likely that if any impediments were discovered by the marriage tribunal, a dispensation would be granted in order to preserve the marriage, particularly if consummated or if the couple have children together.

That is the way it used to work, the Church bent over backwards to preserve the marriage, hence the dignity of the sacrament, these days it seems to work the other way around.

Dispensations are to be given before the wedding, not after there has been a divorce and the parties are trying to get an annulment. At this point it is too late to ask for a dispensation. If there is an impediment that is discovered after there has been a divorce then that would be evidence that the marriage was null and void to begin with.

Stubborn · « **Reply #13 on:** December 10, 2015, 06:08:19 AM »

Quote from: poche

Dispensations are to be given before the wedding, not after there has been a divorce and the parties are trying to get an annulment. At this point it is too late to ask for a dispensation. If there is an impediment that is discovered after there has been a divorce then that would be evidence that the marriage was null and void to begin with.

Yes, impediments are supposed to be known prior to the wedding, but that does not always happen.

The OP made no mention of the couple being divorced. But even if that were the case and there were impediments discovered after divorce, the marriage is still valid and dispensations can still be granted - in order to preserve the marriage.

Per what was said in the OP, the marriage is presumed valid. If after investigation by the marriage tribunal they find some impediment, they can and if possible will grant a dispensation for that impediment. Even some diriment impediments discovered after marriage can be dispensed with, some cannot. But the Church always goes to great lengths to preserve the marriage, not takes sides in pity for one or both of the spouses.

Seems like from my armchair, what it amounts to in this case, is that they married for the wrong reason, but they married.

clarkaim · « **Reply #14 on:** December 10, 2015, 12:49:04 PM »

Quote from: Peter15and1

Quote from: steelcross
But she was pressured also by her father.

As stated by others, it depends on exactly what this "pressure" consisted of. While parents cannot compel their children to marry or threaten them into it (any any such marriage would likely be invalid), encouragement, inducement, etc., likely will not invalidate the marriage.

not to be persnickety, but I think we need to be careful with language. Valid or invalid are NOT verbs, but rather adjectival description of the condition of a given, in this case, marriage. They are used to describe the results of a given process, as in an argument, does it fulfill the conditions to achieve the conditional adjective "valid". Big deal so what you say? Ask yourself the question of how may folks view that in all practical cases in today's "Church" annulments are considered Catholic divorce and gives the perception that Catholicism is NOT consistent with it's first principles, causing many to question it's-claims to be THE true faith. Marriages are not "invalidated, but are either Valid or not. These are the little things, so to speak, where the battle is won in the details.

All this being said, I knew what you meant and am, not trying to pick a quarrel, I just have had to deal with so many misconceptions on the part of even my own family, Catholic and Protestant family, causes me to be conscious of these little divergences that lead to error.