Author Topic: Vacation -- an entitlement? (Read 2372 times)

klasG4e · « **on:** July 24, 2016, 02:00:47 PM »

I imagine there are a good number of trads attending and supporting SSPX chapels who have not gone on a vacation for years. Some, perhaps, have never gone on one and some because of financial considerations or otherwise have never even seriously thought about going on one. On the other hand, it seems like there may well exist a serious sense of entitlement to regular vacations by some, if not even many, of our SSPX priests. This situation may seem more than a bit disconcerting especially in these times of ever increasing economic squeezes where some parishioners are worried about simply keeping a roof over their heads and food on the table; never mind about the payment of various other expenses that the clergy may be inclined to take for granted.

We just had an SSPX priest take off for a vacation which included three Sundays in a row; then it was off for another two weeks (including two Sundays) for a teacher conference or conferences. This made it necessary to call in different priests to fill in the missing Sundays; forget the missing weekdays. Who knows what disruptions may have been caused by the pulling off of these priests from other assignments, not to mention all the travel expenses.

Then there are the regular priest meetings and priest retreats the SSPX clergy are called off to.

One would be hard pressed -- actually it's impossible -- to find St. John Vianney (you know -- that saint whose statue sat on the desk of Pope St. Pius X) ever once taking a single vacation from his parish in his entire life. Hmmm -- he just happens, of course, to be the patron saint of parish priests. How in the world did he manage to become such a great saint without those regular vacations to help him unwind, balance things out, and give himself a "reward?"

Marlelar · « **Reply #1 on:** July 24, 2016, 03:44:14 PM »

Just because 200 years ago priests did not routinely get a rest from parish duties does not mean it is wrong to do so. Even Christ rested.

I think it is a good thing that priests do have the chance to visit friends, family, and fellow priests and would not begrudge a priest a few weeks a year away from the parish.

Paul FHC · « **Reply #2 on:** July 24, 2016, 06:02:32 PM »

What exactly is the problem? You haven't mentioned missing Mass or not being able to go to confession. So why do you take umbrage with the SSPX priests' vacations? Is it because, like you said, God hasn't given various laymen the means to take vacations? Therefore, priests shouldn't either?

I think it would be best for you to stop caring about what priests do in their free-time. They have to live up to God's standards, not yours.

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #3 on:** July 24, 2016, 06:22:58 PM »

Quote from: klasG4e

I imagine there are a good number of trads attending and supporting SSPX chapels who have not gone on a vacation for years. Some, perhaps, have never gone on one and some because of financial considerations or otherwise have never even seriously thought about going on one.

Quote from: Marlelar

Just because 200 years ago priests did not routinely get a rest from parish duties does not mean it is wrong to do so. Even Christ rested. I think it is a good thing that priests do have the chance to visit friends, family, and fellow priests and would not begrudge a priest a few weeks a year away from the parish.

I think it is a matter of perspective.

If you have 10 children, have to home school because you can't afford private school, have to work 60 hours a week just to pay rent, the car, and food, then you see the priests life as luxurious. Luxurious, when see the priest being fed gourmet 7 course meals with wine and after dinner cognac and cigars. Luxurious, when you see the priest does not lift a finger to mow the lawn or even wash his own underwear. Luxurious, when it looks to anyone with eyes to see, that the priest treats the parishioners like his servants and maids. Luxurious, when you see the priests taking a 1 month vacation every year. Luxurious, when you see the priests living better than the rich in the parish.

If you have no children, or had the typical 2 children and they are now gone off on their own, and you own your own home, have two cars, a boat or others toys, work 5 or less days a week, and take one month a year vacation. Then you do not see anything wrong with a priest doing the same thing.

It is a matter of perspective.

To the man with 12 children, the priests use of his donation money to live luxuriously, borders on mortal sin. To him the priest is no different than the shyster Protestant evangelists on TV.

To the well off with no children, the priests taking vacations is not a big deal.

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #4 on:** July 25, 2016, 08:45:46 AM »

Quote from: Paul FHC

What exactly is the problem? You haven't mentioned missing Mass or not being able to go to confession. So why do you take umbrage with the SSPX priests' vacations? Is it because, like you said, God hasn't given various laymen the means to take vacations? Therefore, priests shouldn't either?

I think it would be best for you to stop caring about what priests do in their free-time. They have to live up to God's standards, not yours.

Likely Paul has the 12 children and sees much more than just the vacations. Do you really think he would complain if the priest lived up to God's standards?

I suggest everyone read the book "The Dignity and the Duties of the Priest" by Alphonsus Ligouri, and then they will be able to know God's standards, and better judge a priests deeds.

Viva Cristo Rey · « **Reply #5 on:** July 25, 2016, 09:00:44 AM »

Quote from: Paul FHC

What exactly is the problem? You haven't mentioned missing Mass or not being able to go to confession. So why do you take umbrage with the SSPX priests' vacations? Is it because, like you said, God hasn't given various laymen the means to take vacations? Therefore, priests shouldn't either?

I think it would be best for you to stop caring about what priests do in their free-time. They have to live up to God's standards, not yours.

Too much free time is how novus ordo priests use to take children on trips to shore to abuse them.

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #6 on:** July 25, 2016, 09:56:01 AM »

Correction:

likely klasG4e has the 12 children and sees much more.......

Quote from: Last Tradhican

Quote from: Paul FHC
What exactly is the problem? You haven't mentioned missing Mass or not being able to go to confession. So why do you take umbrage with the SSPX priests' vacations? Is it because, like you said, God hasn't given various laymen the means to take vacations? Therefore, priests shouldn't either?

I think it would be best for you to stop caring about what priests do in their free-time. They have to live up to God's standards, not yours.

Likely ~~Paul~~ has the 12 children and sees much more than just the vacations. Do you really think he would complain if the priest lived up to God's standards?

I suggest everyone read the book "The Dignity and the Duties of the Priest" by Alphonsus Ligouri, and then they will be able to know God's standards, and better judge a priests deeds.

ultrarigorist · « **Reply #7 on:** July 25, 2016, 10:36:28 AM »

Quote from: Paul FHC

What exactly is the problem? You haven't mentioned missing Mass or not being able to go to confession. So why do you take umbrage with the SSPX priests' vacations? Is it because, like you said, God hasn't given various laymen the means to take vacations? Therefore, priests shouldn't either?

I think it would be best for you to stop caring about what priests do in their free-time. They have to live up to God's standards, not yours.

"A priest should not live any better than the worst off of his parishioners". - Fulton Sheen (and others..)
That doesn't mean he shouldn't get r&r time, but even the appearance of extended vacay that some of his flock can't afford should be avoided at all cost.

nctradcath · « **Reply #8 on:** July 25, 2016, 11:21:30 AM »

They aren't parish priests in the true sense.

Cantarella · « **Reply #9 on:** July 25, 2016, 11:30:12 AM »

Quote from: Last Tradhican

I suggest everyone read the book "The Dignity and the Duties of the Priest" by Alphonsus Ligouri, and then they will be able to know God's standards, and better judge a priests deeds.

For anyone interested, the book is right here:

The Dignities and Duties of the Priest
by St. Alphonsus Liguori C.SS.R.

http://www.catholictradition.org/Priests/priesthood1-2.htm

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #10 on:** July 25, 2016, 11:40:51 AM »

Quote from: ultrarigorist

Quote from: Paul FHC
What exactly is the problem? You haven't mentioned missing Mass or not being able to go to confession. So why do you take umbrage with the SSPX priests' vacations? Is it because, like you said, God hasn't given various laymen the means to take vacations? Therefore, priests shouldn't either?

I think it would be best for you to stop caring about what priests do in their free-time. They have to live up to God's standards, not yours.

"A priest should not live any better than the worst off of his parishioners". - Fulton Sheen (and others..)
That doesn't mean he shouldn't get r&r time, but even the appearance of extended vacay that some of his flock can't afford should be avoided at all cost.

This is just common sense. An employer who drives a Rolls Royce and is flashy in his life, is not going to get much out of his employees if he does not pay them very geneously.

In the ordinary course of life, the rich do not get donations from the poor.

The Cure de Ars brought back all the farmers that had left the church by showing them that he could do their job better than them. The men came back to the church because they respected the Cure as a man. Why do you think they had all left in the first place? It was because they had no respect for soft "city" priests that had been there before.

This is all just common sense.

klasG4e · « **Reply #11 on:** July 25, 2016, 01:22:46 PM »

I certainly don't condemn a priest for either desiring to go on a vacation or to actually go on one. I wanted to raise, however, the question of whether vacations by a parish priest should be seen as a sort of entitlement, hence the title of my post. I for one do not think they should be. Although recreation as such is a valid form of activity for a priest, he must obviously be very careful in the nature and extent of it.

A priest is not simply like other men regardless of how much Freemasons and others would have us believe otherwise. He is ordained by Holy Orders to a higher standard than other men. Indeed, it has been rightly said that a priest who is not holy is a monster in the order of grace.

An excellent book which examines the questions of a priest's valid recreation is The Priest the Man of God: His Dignity and His Duties by St. Joseph Cafasso. Cafasso was the spiritual adviser of St. John Bosco. The eighth chapter or conference in the book is "The Priest's Recreation" which does not speak of vacations per se, but rather of recreation.

I think it is a rightful/legitimate concern of the faithful that they are deprived of daily Mass and ready access to their spiritual father due to their pastor's extended absence, just as it is a rightful concern of children whose father would be absent due to a vacation away from his family. The secondary concern of the faithful, if any, would be a sense of scandal, real or simply perceived, of their spiritual father going off on a vacation which for some of them would be out of the question due to financial limitations.

Paul FHC · « **Reply #12 on:** July 25, 2016, 04:28:44 PM »

The problem here is that everyone on this thread has the old SSPX mentality towards priests. That is, they have varying opinions of priests based on their own perceptions of that priest's holiness, or lack thereof.

"I really like this priest, he is so nice to me"

"Fr.--- is mean, I don't like him very much. Plus he takes vacations every summer, and I don't. It's not fair."

A priest is a priest. That's all that matters. If his personal decisions don't affect you, which klas4ge was pretty clear in stating, then who cares what he does with his personal time? Every priest is a big boy. They have all read the moral manuals in addition to volumes of spirituality. If taking vacations for them is sinful, they would know. It's their problem, not ours.

It sounds to me like ye laborers are worrying about how much the Good Lord has compensated others when He has already been generous to you.

Matthew · « **Reply #13 on:** July 25, 2016, 05:14:00 PM »

Quote from: Last Tradhican

Quote from: Paul FHC
What exactly is the problem? You haven't mentioned missing Mass or not being able to go to confession. So why do you take umbrage with the SSPX priests' vacations? Is it because, like you said, God hasn't given various laymen the means to take vacations? Therefore, priests shouldn't either?

I think it would be best for you to stop caring about what priests do in their free-time. They have to live up to God's standards, not yours.

Likely he has the 12 children and sees much more than just the vacations. Do you really think he would complain if the priest lived up to God's standards?

I suggest everyone read the book "The Dignity and the Duties of the Priest" by Alphonsus Ligouri, and then they will be able to know God's standards, and better judge a priests deeds.

I read several books like that, including "The Priest, the man of God" and in one of those books, I remember they gave an anecdote of a missionary priest who came to a village and didn't make any conversions. Why was that? How did he scandalize the locals?

He was seen eating food.

That's the "higher level" we're talking about. Even licit recreation, sustinence and "fun" must be done with great reserve, to avoid causing the slightest harm to any soul. Even if that soul is a bruised reed and doesn't take much to buckle over and break in half.

The priest isn't about justice. He is about mercy. In justice, no soul has a "claim" on a priest to make this or that sacrifice. But out of mercy, the Sacred Heart of Jesus lovingly asks each priest to make that sacrifice.

A priest needs to be more than just a "good Catholic", a "decent Catholic" or a "devout Catholic" who doesn't violate the Commandments. He needs to be downright holy (saintly) so he can save souls from the jaws of hell. THAT is why we Catholics respect, revere and take care of our priests.

Mortifications that would be "optional" for us laymen are "strongly suggested" for priests.

That's why I insist that the priesthood is not just another job. It's also why I think it would be crazy to try to juggle married life, children, and the priesthood. How can you properly fast or pray when you have your wife and childrens' needs to consider?

nctradcath · « **Reply #14 on:** July 25, 2016, 05:18:37 PM »

All good points worthy of consideration.