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Traditional Catholic Faith => Fighting Errors in the Modern World => Topic started by: Last Tradhican on May 15, 2018, 10:53:40 AM

Title: Use Term Pro-Infanticide and Infanticidists, not Pro-Choice or Abortionist
Post by: Last Tradhican on May 15, 2018, 10:53:40 AM
I friend of mine keeps repeating to me every time I make the mistake of saying abortionist and pro-abortion (I never used the pro-choice, pro-life), that it should be called pro-infanticide and  Infanticidists.

An abortion is a mechanical term (abort a mission), and pro-choice and pro-life are silly "politically correct" expressions.

It is more striking and closer to reality to use the term infanticide, pro-infanticide, anti-infanticide, infanticidists.

Agreed?
Title: Re: Use Term Pro-Infanticide and Infanticidists, not Pro-Choice or Abortionist
Post by: songbird on May 15, 2018, 11:59:53 AM
Someone asked me when "life" begins.  Abortion and infanticide are after the fact, after life.   But I say it begins with egg and sperm.  To destroy them is against life.

For example: egg and sperm have value, just as you buy seeds in the store.  Only God puts more value on egg and sperm.  Attitude is the sin.  How does one combat this evil attitude towards Gods creation?  

The world is anti-authority, anti-God.  They do not see a soul, do not speak of soul.

The enemy works like this KAB= Knowledge, attitude, behavior.  Change knowledge, to change attitude, to behavior= abortion/murder.

Solution: Powers of the Precious Blood, Our Lady of Peace/Rosary, fast/mortification/sacrifice.
Title: Re: Use Term Pro-Infanticide and Infanticidists, not Pro-Choice or Abortionist
Post by: Incredulous on May 15, 2018, 12:34:34 PM

(https://assets.vice.com/content-images/contentimage/183062/ProLIfe2-2.jpg)
Title: Re: Use Term Pro-Infanticide and Infanticidists, not Pro-Choice or Abortionist
Post by: Mr G on May 15, 2018, 03:36:24 PM
Quote from: Last Tradhican on May 15, 2018, 10:53:40 AM
I friend of mine keeps repeating to me every time I make the mistake of saying abortionist and pro-abortion (I never used the pro-choice, pro-life), that it should be called pro-infanticide and  Infanticidists.

An abortion is a mechanical term (abort a mission), and pro-choice and pro-life are silly "politically correct" expressions.

It is more striking and closer to reality to use the term infanticide, pro-infanticide, anti-infanticide, infanticidists.

Agreed?
Yes, I too agree. That is a good point you bring up. We can never win we use the enemy's terms and play within their rules.
Title: Re: Use Term Pro-Infanticide and Infanticidists, not Pro-Choice or Abortionist
Post by: Incredulous on May 16, 2018, 07:48:49 AM
You are right.... :fryingpan:

And thank you for reminding me Last Tradhican!

Title: Re: Use Term Pro-Infanticide and Infanticidists, not Pro-Choice or Abortionist
Post by: Jaynek on May 16, 2018, 08:04:51 AM
While it is true, of course, that abortion is infanticide, there may be situations in which it is confusing to use that word.  Sometimes one might wish to make a distinction between murdering children before birth and doing so after birth.  

For example, if one were describing the progression of the error, one might say that the social acceptance of abortion led to the acceptance of infanticide.  Obviously, it is unclear to say "the acceptance of infanticide led to the acceptance of infanticide".   So we sometimes need terminology capable of showing this distinction.

I agree that "pro-choice" is a problematic word for various reasons and ought to be avoided.  What we replace it with would depend on the context.  I think that, while "pro-abortion" has some negative points, there are circuмstances in which it is acceptable.


Title: Re: Use Term Pro-Infanticide and Infanticidists, not Pro-Choice or Abortionist
Post by: Last Tradhican on May 16, 2018, 09:05:34 AM
Quote from: Jaynek on May 16, 2018, 08:04:51 AM
While it is true, of course, that abortion is infanticide, there may be situations in which it is confusing to use that word.  Sometimes one might wish to make a distinction between murdering children before birth and doing so after birth.  

For example, if one were describing the progression of the error, one might say that the social acceptance of abortion led to the acceptance of infanticide.  Obviously, it is unclear to say "the acceptance of infanticide led to the acceptance of infanticide".   So we sometimes need terminology capable of showing this distinction.

I agree that "pro-choice" is a problematic word for various reasons and ought to be avoided.  What we replace it with would depend on the context.  I think that, while "pro-abortion" has some negative points, there are circuмstances in which it is acceptable.
Abortion is infanticide as you confirmed in the first sentence. From there on everything you wrote is an attempt to soften that fact when speaking to the world. That defeats the entire purpose. The use of euphemisms like abortion, pro-choice etc. is not reality. 

For example, if one were describing the progression of the error ( progression of the error! Not something I would say), one might say that the social acceptance of abortion the killing of the unborn IS infanticide.
Title: Re: Use Term Pro-Infanticide and Infanticidists, not Pro-Choice or Abortionist
Post by: SusanneT on May 16, 2018, 09:24:07 AM
I think child murder is more accurate than abortion - call it what it is. 
Title: Re: Use Term Pro-Infanticide and Infanticidists, not Pro-Choice or Abortionist
Post by: Jaynek on May 16, 2018, 09:46:12 AM
Quote from: Last Tradhican on May 16, 2018, 09:05:34 AM
Abortion is infanticide as you confirmed in the first sentence. From there on everything you wrote is an attempt to soften that fact when speaking to the world. That defeats the entire purpose. The use of euphemisms like abortion, pro-choice etc. is not reality.
I do not see the word "abortion" as a euphemism.  It comes from the Latin word abortio and is used in medical terminology.  A "spontaneous abortion" is commonly called a miscarriage, while an "induced abortion" is commonly called an abortion and means the deliberate killing of a child before birth.  It is a precise and clinical word that does not soften the reality of what occurs.

I would say that "removal of uterine contents" is a euphemism.  The term "pro-choice" is not so much a euphemism as a lie.  It is an attempt to portray something horrendous as something good.  It is actively deceptive.

But I wonder if we understand the word "euphemism" differently.  Would you say that the word "defecate" is a euphemism?  I wouldn't.  In contrast, I would say that "go number two" is a euphemism.
Title: Re: Use Term Pro-Infanticide and Infanticidists, not Pro-Choice or Abortionist
Post by: SusanneT on May 16, 2018, 09:59:03 AM
I am 100% Pro-Choice - in that I believe that we have the choice as to whether we fornicate and whether or not we marry.  

Where we absolutely do not have a right of choice over is with regards to a God created life in our womb.  Whether or not we had sex in marriage, in sinful fornication or were forced into it. That life is God’s not ours. 

Title: Re: Use Term Pro-Infanticide and Infanticidists, not Pro-Choice or Abortionist
Post by: Last Tradhican on May 16, 2018, 10:04:01 AM
Quote from: Jaynek on May 16, 2018, 09:46:12 AM
I do not see the word "abortion" as a euphemism.  It comes from the Latin word abortio and is used in medical terminology.  A "spontaneous abortion" is commonly called a miscarriage, while an "induced abortion" is commonly called an abortion and means the deliberate killing of a child before birth.  It is a precise and clinical word that does not soften the reality of what occurs.
You are correct, it is not a euphemism strictly speaking, but it has become like one, since the term is used to mean many mechanical operations like "aborting a mission". If you wanted to distinguish between abortion and infanticide in a conversation like you brought up, I would use "feticide" for the killing of the unborn. Personally I would not distinguish abortion from infanticide, for it is infanticide, it is just the law does not call it that. 
Title: Re: Use Term Pro-Infanticide and Infanticidists, not Pro-Choice or Abortionist
Post by: Jaynek on May 16, 2018, 10:04:50 AM
Quote from: SusanneT on May 16, 2018, 09:59:03 AM
I am 100% Pro-Choice - in that I believe that we have the choice as to whether we fornicate and whether or not we marry.  

Where we absolutely do not have a right of choice over is with regards to a God created life in our womb.  Whether or not we had sex in marriage, in sinful fornication or were forced into it. That life is God’s not ours.
Yes, this is what I was getting at by saying that using "pro-choice" to refer to support for abortion is deceptive.  One could more rightly call the Catholic position "pro-choice" since it is based on the correct understanding of free will.
Title: Re: Use Term Pro-Infanticide and Infanticidists, not Pro-Choice or Abortionist
Post by: Jaynek on May 16, 2018, 10:06:37 AM
Quote from: Last Tradhican on May 16, 2018, 10:04:01 AM
You are correct, it is not a euphemism strictly speaking, but it has become like one, since the term is used to mean many mechanical operations like "aborting a mission". 
Ah, I see what you mean.  That makes sense.
Title: Re: Use Term Pro-Infanticide and Infanticidists, not Pro-Choice or Abortionist
Post by: Incredulous on May 16, 2018, 10:10:43 AM
Consider the "children of the devil" practice the trade of their father, the master of lies:

"Misinformation" for lies and deceit.

"gαy" for deviant ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs.

"Homo-phobia" for those who refuse to condone deviant ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity.

"Anti-semitism" for those who point out the errors of perfidious тαℓмυdic judaism.

"Human trafficking" for the ancient vice of prostitution.

"Pro-choice" for infanticide or murder.

"Deep State" for international organized, ʝʊdɛօ-masonry.

And on and on...
Title: Re: Use Term Pro-Infanticide and Infanticidists, not Pro-Choice or Abortionist
Post by: SusanneT on May 16, 2018, 10:11:50 AM
Quote from: Jaynek on May 16, 2018, 10:04:50 AM
Yes, this is what I was getting at by saying that using "pro-choice" to refer to support for abortion is deceptive.  One could more rightly call the Catholic position "pro-choice" since it is based on the correct understanding of free will.
I agree but I think we have to be cautious not to give ground to those who believe child murder is justified when a woman is raped. It is not there are NO circuмstances where the deliberate killing of a child in the womb is acceptable or where a woman has any right to make that choice. 
Title: Re: Use Term Pro-Infanticide and Infanticidists, not Pro-Choice or Abortionist
Post by: songbird on May 17, 2018, 02:24:46 PM
I am against abortion, yet when the pill is done, it is not considered abortion.  I am against the Pill(for abortion).

The world will give the "pill" w/o testing for pregnancy.  Also, in reality, chances of a pregnancy in a true rape is at most 1 -2%.

The world does not even tell in news how many women are physically hurt by the "abortion pill", which is = to 3 years worth of an oral contraceptive.  Lupus, cancer, death.

Then the talk that there are less abortions, not true.  The world's definition of abortion is surgical when it comes to that talk.

So many lies and half truths!
Title: Re: Use Term Pro-Infanticide and Infanticidists, not Pro-Choice or Abortionist
Post by: Nadir on May 18, 2018, 03:43:52 AM
Quote from: Jaynek on May 16, 2018, 09:46:12 AM
I do not see the word "abortion" as a euphemism.  It comes from the Latin word abortio and is used in medical terminology.  A "spontaneous abortion" is commonly called a miscarriage, while an "induced abortion" is commonly called an abortion and means the deliberate killing of a child before birth.  It is a precise and clinical word that does not soften the reality of what occurs.

I would say that "removal of uterine contents" is a euphemism.  The term "pro-choice" is not so much a euphemism as a lie.  It is an attempt to portray something horrendous as something good.  It is actively deceptive.

But I wonder if we understand the word "euphemism" differently.  Would you say that the word "defecate" is a euphemism?  I wouldn't.  In contrast, I would say that "go number two" is a euphemism.
A "spontaneous abortion" is commonly called a miscarriage,
an "induced abortion" is commonly called an abortion and means the deliberate killing of a child before birth.

So a miscarriage is an event in which no human interference takes place, while an induced abortion is an abortion? That seems an unsatisfactory definition.


Let me modify that statement about induced abortion: 
An induced abortion is the deliberate malicious killing of an in-utero infant human being. What do we call that?

euphemism (yo͞oˈfə-mĭzˌəm)
n.
The act or an example of substituting a mild, indirect, or vague term for one considered harsh, blunt, or offensive: "Euphemisms such as 'slumber room' . . . abound in the funeral business” ( Jessica Mitford).


What about termination of pregnancy? Isn't that a euphemism? Well every birth is a termination of pregnancy.

Title: Re: Use Term Pro-Infanticide and Infanticidists, not Pro-Choice or Abortionist
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on May 19, 2018, 02:59:45 AM

MATTERS OF LIFE AND DEATH

PRIEST SHAMES 14 CATHOLIC SENATORS PROTECTING LATE-TERM ABORTION

Calls on bishops, pastors of Durbin, Kaine, others, to rebuke their parishioners
Published: 02/07/2018 at 9:31 PM
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Rev. Dwight Longenecker
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An outspoken Roman Catholic priest is drawing attention to 14 confessing Catholics in the U.S. Senate who helped reject a bill that would have outlawed abortion after 20 weeks of pregnancy, calling on their bishops and parish priests to rebuke the lawmakers.
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Sen. Richard Durbin, D-Ill.
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Father Dwight Longenecker wrote on his blog (https://dwightlongenecker.com/lets-name-the-abortion-providing-politicians/) that he was “absolutely shocked” when the bill to ban “barbaric, inhumane” late-term abortions was rejected Jan. 29. And he found it “even more shocking” that the legislation would have proceeded to a vote and likely passed if not for the fact that 14 Catholic senators voted to block it, including Democratic Sens. Dick Durbin of Illinois and Tim Kaine of Virginia, and Republican Sen. Susan Collins of Maine.
The Pain Capable Unborn Child Protection Act, by a 51-46 vote, fell short of the 60 votes required for the Senate to break a Democratic filibuster. The premise of the bill was that the fetus is capable of feeling pain during an abortion at 20 weeks.
“Today is the day for their bishops to issue a formal statement acknowledging that these men and women have publicly denied their Catholic faith, and if not formally, then have informally excommunicated themselves,” Longenecker said, as LifeNews.com was first to report (http://www.lifenews.com/2018/02/07/priest-says-14-catholic-senators-who-voted-against-late-term-abortion-ban-should-be-excommunicated/).
“Since their offense is public it should be acknowledged publicly and their pastors should publicly rebuke them and ask them not to receive the sacraments.”
Learn the proven strategies to defeat the abortion cartel in “Abortion Free: Your Manual for Building a Pro-Life America One Community at a Time.” (http://superstore.wnd.com/Welcome/Abortion-Free-Your-Manual-for-Building-a-Pro-Life-America-One-Community-at-a-Time-Autographed?promocode=STORY)

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Longenecker said that if the bishops and priests “do not do this, the faithful in their parishes and dioceses should rise up and blizzard them with letters, emails and the one thing that will really make them sit up and take notice: with holding their contributions.”

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Read more at http://mobile.wnd.com/2018/02/priest-shames-14-catholic-senators-protecting-late-term-abortion/#Do6fGl3dRbY0MvI0.99
Title: Re: Use Term Pro-Infanticide and Infanticidists, not Pro-Choice or Abortionist
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on May 19, 2018, 03:04:16 AM
In 2015, Menendez was indicted on federal corruption charges (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Menendez#2015_federal_indictment_on_corruption_charges) in the United States District Court for the District of New Jersey (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_District_Court_for_the_District_of_New_Jersey), related to alleged favors he did for Florida (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida) ophthalmologist (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophthalmology) Salomon Melgen and gifts he received from him, including campaign donations and private flights. Melgen was charged as well. Menendez has pleaded not guilty to all charges.[3] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Menendez#cite_note-3) His trial ended in a hung jury and a mistrial on November 16, 2017. On January 31, 2018, the Justice Department announced they were dropping all charges against Menendez.[4] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Menendez#cite_note-wapo_20180131-4)