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Author Topic: USA Hispanics from the SSPX  (Read 15428 times)

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Offline jman123

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USA Hispanics from the SSPX
« on: January 17, 2012, 11:36:37 AM »
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  • This is interesting take from the SSPX

    http://sspx.org/pastors_corner/pastors_corner_january_2012.htm#hispanic_influence

    The Hispanic community in America, which was below two million in 1940, has increased tremendously in the last few decades. Today it includes over 50 millions souls and represents 16% of the 308 million Americans. Two thirds of Hispanics are Catholic, and 15% Evangelical.

     
    The first Hispanic bishop was consecrated in 1970. There are presently 50 such bishops. Today, the Catholic Church in America counts 68 millions baptized persons, which represents about 22% of the total population, 40% of which are of Hispanic origin. To top it off, it is estimated that the growth of the Catholic population is coming from them at the rate of 70%. One of our every four children in Catholic kindergarten is Hispanic. At such a rate, the Hispanic community will compromise the majority of Catholics in America as soon as 2030.

    Such statistics call for some remarks:

    By now most United States dioceses have set up well-established Hispanic parishes where the faithful and children are taught the Faith and can grow with little need of adaptation. This continues the Catholic battle which all immigrants faced from the 19th century regarding the use of their own language and traditions in their Catholic schools. (I am thinking specifically of the Germans in the Midwest.) The children are growing up perfectly bilingual and they serve as mediators to less adaptable parents.

    Without a doubt, Latin American culture has a lot to offer to the United States Catholic Church. Just think of the great mystics like St. John of the Cross and St. Teresa of Avila. Think too of the wonderful cultural development, evangelization, and education brought about by the Spanish settlers under the Catholics Ferdinand and Isabella. They are the heirs of the highest cultural achievement which was brought about from the connection of the Old and New World. Who can boast of establishing two flourishing universities in the New World 150 years before Harvard? Who can boast of having an Indian Viceroy of Mexico just a few generations after the Spanish conquest of Cortes?

    Most southern States of the USA were at one time the property of the Spanish crown. Are we witnessing the revenge of the Hispanics who were kicked out of their own territory by a fiercely Masonic government?

    Yet, one may fear that the Spanish influence may be less Catholic than numbers tell. Like the waves of immigrations of the last century, the incoming Hispanics are mostly underprivileged families seeking asylum in a country which promises a rosy future for them. They have little education and little ambition. It will take generations to turn them into the powerhouse of Catholic America in leadership.

    More to the point, there is here a large reserve of vital forces into which the present hierarchy must tap, under pain of letting the easy, happy-clappy Church leaders swing them to their side. It seems inevitable that our Society of St. Pius X needs to direct much of its efforts along the same lines and promote study in Spanish at the seminary. And—this is not negligible—our college students will fare better in job interviews if they can present some bilingual capacity in their resume.


    Offline s2srea

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    USA Hispanics from the SSPX
    « Reply #1 on: January 17, 2012, 12:52:14 PM »
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  • There are so many wasp-influenced/ neo-cons in the SSPX (US), at least where I live, it gets annoying. Fr. Hawker (of the Arcadia Priory) set up a once-a-month Spanish sermon to meet the needs of the Mexican and other Latino Catholics in the Colton, CA chapel (St. Joesph and IHM Chapel). During his sermon, a large majority of the (anglos) 'influential' families got up and left in disgust. This is why my family left our local SSPX chapels.


    Offline Catholic Samurai

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    USA Hispanics from the SSPX
    « Reply #2 on: January 17, 2012, 02:30:44 PM »
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  • Quote from: s2srea
    There are so many wasp-influenced/ neo-cons in the SSPX (US), at least where I live, it gets annoying. Fr. Hawker (of the Arcadia Priory) set up a once-a-month Spanish sermon to meet the needs of the Mexican and other Latino Catholics in the Colton, CA chapel (St. Joesph and IHM Chapel). During his sermon, a large majority of the (anglos) 'influential' families got up and left in disgust. This is why my family left our local SSPX chapels.


    Yall should have sat snug in your seats and told Pale Face not to let the door hit him on the way out.
    "Louvada Siesa O' Sanctisimo Sacramento!"~warcry of the Amakusa/Shimabara rebels

    "We must risk something for God!"~Hernan Cortes


    TEJANO AND PROUD!

    Offline s2srea

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    USA Hispanics from the SSPX
    « Reply #3 on: January 17, 2012, 02:36:50 PM »
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  • Quote from: Catholic Samurai
    Quote from: s2srea
    There are so many wasp-influenced/ neo-cons in the SSPX (US), at least where I live, it gets annoying. Fr. Hawker (of the Arcadia Priory) set up a once-a-month Spanish sermon to meet the needs of the Mexican and other Latino Catholics in the Colton, CA chapel (St. Joesph and IHM Chapel). During his sermon, a large majority of the (anglos) 'influential' families got up and left in disgust. This is why my family left our local SSPX chapels.


    Yall should have sat snug in your seats and told Pale Face not to let the door hit him on the way out.


    Well that's what was rather sad. Instead of standing firm in continuing a Spanish speaking ministry, the head at the priory gave in, and the Spanish sermons were discontinued.

    CORRECTION: I do have a correction to make with my first post. It was Fr. Gonzales (SSPX) who gave the sermon in Spanish. When the WASP Traddies threw their hissy fit, Fr. Hawker was sent in to replace Fr. Gonzalez. C'est la vie ala 'Societeee'.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    USA Hispanics from the SSPX
    « Reply #4 on: January 17, 2012, 02:56:03 PM »
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  • While I sympathize with the situation you faced where the parishioners wouldn't sit still for a Spanish sermon, I do think you're quite mistaken to call opposition to immigration "neo-con."  It's nothing of the kind.

    I wonder what would happen if the situation was reversed, if in Mexico, and English speaking priest decided to give a sermon in English once a month?

    Somehow I doubt such a situation arise under similar conditions.



    Offline Telesphorus

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    USA Hispanics from the SSPX
    « Reply #5 on: January 17, 2012, 03:00:46 PM »
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  • Quote
    Yet, one may fear that the Spanish influence may be less Catholic than numbers tell. Like the waves of immigrations of the last century, the incoming Hispanics are mostly underprivileged families seeking asylum in a country which promises a rosy future for them. They have little education and little ambition. It will take generations to turn them into the powerhouse of Catholic America in leadership.


    This is very strange commentary.  First of all there is idea that things will be bright for them economically in the future, there is the comparison of their migration to that of past migrations, when in fact there are significant differences in the nature of the migration.  

    Secondly the idea that their role in the Church depends on their ambition and education.  (a strange idea)  Apparently many lack the resources be Catholic "powerhouses" (collection plate powerhouses?) in North America.




    Offline Vladimir

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    USA Hispanics from the SSPX
    « Reply #6 on: January 17, 2012, 03:19:07 PM »
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  • Quote from: s2srea
    There are so many wasp-influenced/ neo-cons in the SSPX (US), at least where I live, it gets annoying. Fr. Hawker (of the Arcadia Priory) set up a once-a-month Spanish sermon to meet the needs of the Mexican and other Latino Catholics in the Colton, CA chapel (St. Joesph and IHM Chapel). During his sermon, a large majority of the (anglos) 'influential' families got up and left in disgust. This is why my family left our local SSPX chapels.


    Why not have one priest say a Mass and give the sermon in Spanish and at another mass (the principal one, this being the United States) have the priest preach in English?

    Switching to the Latin Mass is already a big deal for a lot of minorities. What makes it worse is when people, even if well-intentioned, add additional pressure by making them read out of English-Latin missals, say really English prayers (Challoner's prayers are really nice in English, but can a Mexican really appreciate that?), etc.

    Especially in Southern California. There's a whole lot of minorities, etc. Those parishioners that left should be grateful that the priest wasn't preaching in Vietnamese or Cantonese. (Now there's a good idea!)




    Offline Caraffa

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    USA Hispanics from the SSPX
    « Reply #7 on: January 17, 2012, 04:11:27 PM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Secondly the idea that their role in the Church depends on their ambition and education.  (a strange idea)  Apparently many lack the resources be Catholic "powerhouses" (collection plate powerhouses?) in North America.


    Yeah, sounds like something that someone of Opus Dei would say or one who views things too naturalistically.
    Pray for me, always.


    Offline Telesphorus

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    USA Hispanics from the SSPX
    « Reply #8 on: January 17, 2012, 05:02:47 PM »
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  • Quote from: Caraffa
    Quote from: Telesphorus
    Secondly the idea that their role in the Church depends on their ambition and education.  (a strange idea)  Apparently many lack the resources be Catholic "powerhouses" (collection plate powerhouses?) in North America.


    Yeah, sounds like something that someone of Opus Dei would say or one who views things too naturalistically.


    One other thing to consider about this talk about "ambition"

    Quote
    Last year, two Princeton sociologists, Thomas Espenshade and Alexandria Walton Radford, published a book-length study of admissions and affirmative action at eight highly selective colleges and universities. Unsurprisingly, they found that the admissions process seemed to favor black and Hispanic applicants, while whites and Asians needed higher grades and SAT scores to get in. But what was striking, as Russell K. Nieli pointed out last week on the conservative Web site Minding the Campus, was which whites were most disadvantaged by the process: the downscale, the rural and the working-class.


    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/19/opinion/19douthat.html

    Now recall Matthew making that post about the priest who said the boys didn't have enough ambition.

    I imagine a lot of boys from families with nearly 10 children who live on food stamps   growing up in a town where there are few options might seem to "lack ambition," and be bad for SSPX cash flow.  Fortunately bright hispanics can get affirmative action.  And likely it will be mainly the lighter ones who end up in Trad chapels.  This influx will therefore help SSPX cash flow.

    Offline Sigismund

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    USA Hispanics from the SSPX
    « Reply #9 on: January 17, 2012, 06:40:21 PM »
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  • Quote from: Catholic Samurai
    Quote from: s2srea
    There are so many wasp-influenced/ neo-cons in the SSPX (US), at least where I live, it gets annoying. Fr. Hawker (of the Arcadia Priory) set up a once-a-month Spanish sermon to meet the needs of the Mexican and other Latino Catholics in the Colton, CA chapel (St. Joesph and IHM Chapel). During his sermon, a large majority of the (anglos) 'influential' families got up and left in disgust. This is why my family left our local SSPX chapels.


    Yall should have sat snug in your seats and told Pale Face not to let the door hit him on the way out.


    Indeed.  It is hard to see this as anything other than simple racism.  And the priest who caved is a coward.  If he cant stand the disapproval of a few idiots in his pews, how would he ever stand up in a real persecution?
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

    Offline roscoe

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    USA Hispanics from the SSPX
    « Reply #10 on: January 17, 2012, 07:45:16 PM »
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  • There is No Such Thing as 'racism'.
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Offline roscoe

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    USA Hispanics from the SSPX
    « Reply #11 on: January 17, 2012, 07:47:41 PM »
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  • Quote from: Sigismund
    Quote from: Catholic Samurai
    Quote from: s2srea
    There are so many wasp-influenced/ neo-cons in the SSPX (US), at least where I live, it gets annoying. Fr. Hawker (of the Arcadia Priory) set up a once-a-month Spanish sermon to meet the needs of the Mexican and other Latino Catholics in the Colton, CA chapel (St. Joesph and IHM Chapel). During his sermon, a large majority of the (anglos) 'influential' families got up and left in disgust. This is why my family left our local SSPX chapels.


    Yall should have sat snug in your seats and told Pale Face not to let the door hit him on the way out.


    Indeed.  It is hard to see this as anything other than simple racism.  And the priest who caved is a coward.  If he cant stand the disapproval of a few idiots in his pews, how would he ever stand up in a real persecution?


    There is No Such Thing as 'racism'.
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline InfiniteFaith

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    USA Hispanics from the SSPX
    « Reply #12 on: January 17, 2012, 07:53:37 PM »
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  • Just because you are against Illegal Immigration does not make you a racist.

    Offline nadieimportante

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    « Reply #13 on: January 17, 2012, 08:39:13 PM »
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  • Observations from a Mexican bandit:


    Quote
    The Hispanic community in America, which was below two million in 1940, has increased tremendously in the last few decades. Today it includes over 50 millions souls and represents 16% of the 308 million Americans. Two thirds of Hispanics are Catholic, and 15% Evangelical.


    N.O. stats say that 25% of Catholics go to mass, but I remember reading that survey asked the question: "Do you go to mass at least once a month" (If anyone wants to correct me on that, I'm open to correction. ), which is not really going to mass. In Austria, a Catholic country, it's 5%, France,Spain & Germany same numbers more or less. AND we are talking about the Novus Ordo world where practically nothing is taught to the parishioners, they are pretty much ignorant of the faith. Needless to say, there are few Latinos that know the faith.

    They do however have the faith in their veins, as it is part of their culture, but, they don't know it. That sounds like a strange remark, but I bring it up to point out a the fact that they are easy to convince of the faith compared to American Catholics, a country that has an anti-Catholic culture. That Catholicism is in their veins is a good trait that they posses.  

    Quote
    The first Hispanic bishop was consecrated in 1970.


    Wow! I find that hard to believe, since "Hispanics" were all over the Southwest, long before it was part of America.

    Personally, I don't like the term Hispanic. I'm a Cuban of Spanish blood, call me a Spaniard who was born in Cuba, call me a Latino, or a Latin American, but this "Hispanic" term I don't care for.

    Quote
    By now most United States dioceses have set up well-established Hispanic parishes where the faithful and children are taught the Faith and can grow with little need of adaptation. This continues the Catholic battle which all immigrants faced from the 19th century regarding the use of their own language and traditions in their Catholic schools. (I am thinking specifically of the Germans in the Midwest.) The children are growing up perfectly bilingual and they serve as mediators to less adaptable parents.


    Unfortunately what they are teaching them in the "well-established Hispanic parishes" is not Catholicism. They are even being taught  to be like the Protestants, all separated from each other according to whatever each one wants. Even within Latinos they are separated. In Miami, the Cubans have their own mass, and the Mexicans their own, and the Nicaraguans their own. That's not Catholic!  





    Quote
    Without a doubt, Latin American culture has a lot to offer to the United States Catholic Church. Just think of the great mystics like St. John of the Cross and St. Teresa of Avila.


    They were Spaniards, not Latin Americans.



    Quote
    Think too of the wonderful cultural development, evangelization, and education brought about by the Spanish settlers under the Catholics Ferdinand and Isabella. They are the heirs of the highest cultural achievement which was brought about from the connection of the Old and New World. Who can boast of establishing two flourishing universities in the New World 150 years before Harvard? Who can boast of having an Indian Viceroy of Mexico just a few generations after the Spanish conquest of Cortes?

    Most southern States of the USA were at one time the property of the Spanish crown.


    They were Spaniards, not Latinos.


    Quote
    Are we witnessing the revenge of the Hispanics who were kicked out of their own territory by a fiercely Masonic government?


    Yes, if they were Catholics like the Spanish were when they accomplished everything mentioned above. The problem is that these Latinos are only and barely culturally Catholic.

    Quote
    Yet, one may fear that the Spanish influence may be less Catholic than numbers tell. Like the waves of immigrations of the last century, the incoming Hispanics are mostly underprivileged families seeking asylum in a country which promises a rosy future for them.


    Not "may be less Catholic than numbers tell", they are in fact barely Catholic at all.

    Quote
    They have little education and little ambition. It will take generations to turn them into the powerhouse of Catholic America in leadership.


    Strange remark, but, I think he means that they have little ambition for the faith. No one can say that Mexicans (like 95% of these so-called by Americans, "Hispanics" are Mexicans) are not ambitious for monetary success, for they are very hard workers, and considering their lack of education, their achievements in "business" are extraordinary.

    Quote
    More to the point, there is here a large reserve of vital forces into which the present hierarchy must tap, under pain of letting the easy, happy-clappy Church leaders swing them to their side.


    "must tap under pain of letting the easy, happy-clappy Church leaders swing them to their side"? What odd reasons to evangelize.

    Quote
    It seems inevitable that our Society of St. Pius X needs to direct much of its efforts along the same lines and promote study in Spanish at the seminary. And—this is not negligible—our college students will fare better in job interviews if they can present some bilingual capacity in their resume.


    Being as Spanish speaking Catholics represent the largest group of Catholics in the world, Spanish is being taught already in Spanish seminaries. The SSPX can send their seminarians to Argentina to learn Spanish.  From my personal  observations, Spanish is easy to learn for Italians, French and Germans, but immersion in the language is the best way to learn it.
    "Wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it.
     Right is right even if no one is doing it." - Saint Augustine

    Offline Telesphorus

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    « Reply #14 on: January 17, 2012, 08:45:15 PM »
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  • Nadie, if this priest is the priest I think he is, he's a rather strange bird.

    The whole idea of confusing Spanish speaking with being Spanish or Spanish blooded is another strange thing.  Of course in crime statistics mestizos are counted as whites.