Author Topic: Uniformatarianism and Evolution are UNTENABLE (Read 1124 times)

Jehanne · « **Reply #1 on:** November 26, 2009, 07:40:09 AM »

I do not see what the big "hang up" about Darwinian evolution is. The Theory of Evolution is like the Theory of Gravitation. Both are facts about the natural world. We can reject materialistic evolution as being philosophically absurd. As I said before, arrangements of molecules and atoms do not fall in love or seek out Internet message boards to have lively debates. That God injected Himself into Creation and "interrupted" the natural processes of life to infuse life with souls and spirits is as certain as the Earth being round or the Sun being a star.

As I have said before, God exists because we exist, and we exist because God exists. QED.

Roman Catholic · « **Reply #2 on:** November 26, 2009, 08:49:11 AM »

Quote from: Jehanne

As I have said before, God exists because we exist

???

Jehanne · « **Reply #3 on:** November 26, 2009, 10:01:38 AM »

Quote from: Roman Catholic

Quote from: Jehanne

As I have said before, God exists because we exist

???

Our existence proves the existence of God.

Vladimir · « **Reply #4 on:** November 26, 2009, 01:49:41 PM »

Quote from: Jehanne

I do not see what the big "hang up" about Darwinian evolution is. The Theory of Evolution is like the Theory of Gravitation. Both are facts about the natural world. We can reject materialistic evolution as being philosophically absurd. As I said before, arrangements of molecules and atoms do not fall in love or seek out Internet message boards to have lively debates. That God injected Himself into Creation and "interrupted" the natural processes of life to infuse life with souls and spirits is as certain as the Earth being round or the Sun being a star.

As I have said before, God exists because we exist, and we exist because God exists. QED.

Whoever believes in the religion of Evolutionism believes in a mockery of science.

Jehanne · « **Reply #5 on:** November 26, 2009, 02:07:21 PM »

Quote from: Vladimir

Quote from: Jehanne
I do not see what the big "hang up" about Darwinian evolution is. The Theory of Evolution is like the Theory of Gravitation. Both are facts about the natural world. We can reject materialistic evolution as being philosophically absurd. As I said before, arrangements of molecules and atoms do not fall in love or seek out Internet message boards to have lively debates. That God injected Himself into Creation and "interrupted" the natural processes of life to infuse life with souls and spirits is as certain as the Earth being round or the Sun being a star.

As I have said before, God exists because we exist, and we exist because God exists. QED.

Whoever believes in the religion of Evolutionism believes in a mockery of science.

It is a scientific theory, nothing more. Dawkins & Friends has turned it into a religion. It does not disprove the existence of God any more than does the Theory of Kinetic Gases.

Dylan · « **Reply #6 on:** November 26, 2009, 02:47:13 PM »

Jehanne · « **Reply #7 on:** November 26, 2009, 03:40:28 PM »

Quote from: Dylan

Quote from: Jehanne
I do not see what the big "hang up" about Darwinian evolution is. The Theory of Evolution is like the Theory of Gravitation. Both are facts about the natural world.

We can reject materialistic evolution as being philosophically absurd. As I said before, arrangements of molecules and atoms do not fall in love or seek out Internet message boards to have lively debates. That God injected Himself into Creation and "interrupted" the natural processes of life to infuse life with souls and spirits is as certain as the Earth being round or the Sun being a star.

As I have said before, God exists because we exist, and we exist because God exists. QED.

Darwinian evolution is neither "fact" nor "theory"; in the natural world, we can observe facts and theories give well supported explanations of the facts, but no one has ever witnessed molecules-to-man evolution, or Macro-evolution.

This is false. Both micro and macro evolution have been observed in "the wild." (Take antibiotic resistance, to name one example out of many.) But, who cares???? So what?! That evolution occurred proves absolutely nothing. It is simply a scientific description of the World. So what. As Catholics, we are beholdened to the Revelation of Jesus Christ as entrusted to His Apostles and then to the Church.

Dylan · « **Reply #8 on:** November 26, 2009, 09:02:59 PM »

Quote from: Jehanne

This is false. Both micro and macro evolution have been observed in "the wild." (Take antibiotic resistance, to name one example out of many.)

I'm afraid that it's not. "Micro-evolution" is simply variation within baramin ("created kinds") and is completely scientific. Macro-evolution, on the other hand, has never been observed. The claim that antibiotic resistance is "evidence" for Macro-evolution has already been refuted:

- Does the acquisition of antibiotic and pesticide resistance provide evidence for evolution?
- Is antibiotic resistance really due to increase in information?
- Has evolution really been observed? (Summary article)

Quote

For true evolution to occur, new information has to be added to the genome. Resistance to antibiotics has nothing to do with adding new genetic information. There are several ways that bacteria can become resistant to antibiotics. One way is that some bacteria already had the genes for resistance to the antibiotics. In fact, some bacteria, obtained by thawing sources that had been frozen before man developed antibiotics, have been shown to be antibiotic-resistant. When antibiotics are applied to a population of bacteria, those lacking resistance are killed, and any genetic information hey carry is eliminated. The survivors carry less information, but they are all resistant. The same principle applies to insects 'evolving' resistance to insecticides. The resistance was already there, and the insects without resistance are eliminated. (Source)

You claimed that that was one out of many; could you please provide some other examples?

Quote

But, who cares???? So what?! That evolution occurred proves absolutely nothing. It is simply a scientific description of the World. So what. As Catholics, we are beholdened to the Revelation of Jesus Christ as entrusted to His Apostles and then to the Church.

The problem is that evolutionism, even Theistic evolutionism, is completely at odds with what the Bible and what the Church teaches as Dogma. It makes the whole purpose of Christianity meaningless. For example, if you interpret the account of Adam and Eve as being "allegorical" and that they never existed, then you completely rule out the need for a Savior. If Adam and Eve never existed and their was no Fall of Man and it was all just an allegory, what exactly was the point of Christ's sacrifice?

Vandaler · « **Reply #9 on:** November 26, 2009, 09:49:32 PM »

What makes you think that macro evolution and it's observation is even a relevant subject of enquiry for the sake of adding weight to the evolution theory ?

Vladimir · « **Reply #10 on:** November 26, 2009, 10:18:27 PM »

Quote from: Jehanne

Quote from: Dylan
Quote from: Jehanne
I do not see what the big "hang up" about Darwinian evolution is. The Theory of Evolution is like the Theory of Gravitation. Both are facts about the natural world.

We can reject materialistic evolution as being philosophically absurd. As I said before, arrangements of molecules and atoms do not fall in love or seek out Internet message boards to have lively debates. That God injected Himself into Creation and "interrupted" the natural processes of life to infuse life with souls and spirits is as certain as the Earth being round or the Sun being a star.

As I have said before, God exists because we exist, and we exist because God exists. QED.

Darwinian evolution is neither "fact" nor "theory"; in the natural world, we can observe facts and theories give well supported explanations of the facts, but no one has ever witnessed molecules-to-man evolution, or Macro-evolution.

This is false. Both micro and macro evolution have been observed in "the wild." (Take antibiotic resistance, to name one example out of many.) But, who cares???? So what?! That evolution occurred proves absolutely nothing. It is simply a scientific description of the World. So what. As Catholics, we are beholdened to the Revelation of Jesus Christ as entrusted to His Apostles and then to the Church.

Who cares? As Dylan pointed out, Evolutionism is at total odds with the Holy Bible. You can't believe in Adam and Eve if you believe in Evolution.

If Evolution is true, how did the first cell form? How can gases "become" a super complex cell? This is a direct contradiction of cell theory, and the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.

And if "God did it" then why did He give us the Book of Genesis if all of it is just false? Being a Theistic evolutionist is like giving one hand to God and the other to Satan. It doesn't work out.

There's only one difference between Creationism (which is what all the Saints taught) and Evolutionism -- Creationism doesn't contradict science.

Jehanne · « **Reply #11 on:** November 27, 2009, 05:38:29 AM »

Quote from: Dylan

Quote from: Jehanne
This is false. Both micro and macro evolution have been observed in "the wild." (Take antibiotic resistance, to name one example out of many.)

I'm afraid that it's not. "Micro-evolution" is simply variation within baramin ("created kinds") and is completely scientific. Macro-evolution, on the other hand, has never been observed. The claim that antibiotic resistance is "evidence" for Macro-evolution has already been refuted:

- Does the acquisition of antibiotic and pesticide resistance provide evidence for evolution?
- Is antibiotic resistance really due to increase in information?
- Has evolution really been observed? (Summary article)

Quote
For true evolution to occur, new information has to be added to the genome. Resistance to antibiotics has nothing to do with adding new genetic information. There are several ways that bacteria can become resistant to antibiotics. One way is that some bacteria already had the genes for resistance to the antibiotics. In fact, some bacteria, obtained by thawing sources that had been frozen before man developed antibiotics, have been shown to be antibiotic-resistant. When antibiotics are applied to a population of bacteria, those lacking resistance are killed, and any genetic information hey carry is eliminated. The survivors carry less information, but they are all resistant. The same principle applies to insects 'evolving' resistance to insecticides. The resistance was already there, and the insects without resistance are eliminated. (Source)

You claimed that that was one out of many; could you please provide some other examples?

Quote
But, who cares???? So what?! That evolution occurred proves absolutely nothing. It is simply a scientific description of the World. So what. As Catholics, we are beholdened to the Revelation of Jesus Christ as entrusted to His Apostles and then to the Church.

The problem is that evolutionism, even Theistic evolutionism, is completely at odds with what the Bible and what the Church teaches as Dogma. It makes the whole purpose of Christianity meaningless. For example, if you interpret the account of Adam and Eve as being "allegorical" and that they never existed, then you completely rule out the need for a Savior. If Adam and Eve never existed and their was no Fall of Man and it was all just an allegory, what exactly was the point of Christ's sacrifice?

I am not a biologist. Evolutionary theory is simply irrelevant to my theology. I do not believe that the account of Adam & Eve is "allegorical." I think that your error is that you think that Revelation has to be scientific, or at least have scientific evidence for it. I do not. If modern scientific findings can be reconciled with Revelation, that is fine with me. If not, that is fine with me, also.

Jehanne · « **Reply #12 on:** November 27, 2009, 05:46:14 AM »

Quote from: Vladimir

Quote from: Jehanne
Quote from: Dylan
Quote from: Jehanne
I do not see what the big "hang up" about Darwinian evolution is. The Theory of Evolution is like the Theory of Gravitation. Both are facts about the natural world.

We can reject materialistic evolution as being philosophically absurd. As I said before, arrangements of molecules and atoms do not fall in love or seek out Internet message boards to have lively debates. That God injected Himself into Creation and "interrupted" the natural processes of life to infuse life with souls and spirits is as certain as the Earth being round or the Sun being a star.

As I have said before, God exists because we exist, and we exist because God exists. QED.

Darwinian evolution is neither "fact" nor "theory"; in the natural world, we can observe facts and theories give well supported explanations of the facts, but no one has ever witnessed molecules-to-man evolution, or Macro-evolution.

This is false. Both micro and macro evolution have been observed in "the wild." (Take antibiotic resistance, to name one example out of many.) But, who cares???? So what?! That evolution occurred proves absolutely nothing. It is simply a scientific description of the World. So what. As Catholics, we are beholdened to the Revelation of Jesus Christ as entrusted to His Apostles and then to the Church.

Who cares? As Dylan pointed out, Evolutionism is at total odds with the Holy Bible. You can't believe in Adam and Eve if you believe in Evolution.

If Evolution is true, how did the first cell form? How can gases "become" a super complex cell? This is a direct contradiction of cell theory, and the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.

And if "God did it" then why did He give us the Book of Genesis if all of it is just false? Being a Theistic evolutionist is like giving one hand to God and the other to Satan. It doesn't work out.

There's only one difference between Creationism (which is what all the Saints taught) and Evolutionism -- Creationism doesn't contradict science.

Atheists love to display the following cartoon:

Their error is in not recognizing that the "string" pulls both ways. Consider our Lord's miracle of turning water into wine. How can one "analyze" that scientifically? With the right instruments, one could verify that the water, prior to the miracle, contained no alcohol, and after the miracle, one could use the same instruments to verify that the water did contain alcohol. However, where did the alcohol come from? That is unverifiable, hence, the miracle. It just happened, and there is no scientific explanation whatsoever as to how it happened.

With miracles, we can only see their results or effects. They cannot be investigated scientifically, and it is futile to do so.

Roman Catholic · « **Reply #13 on:** November 27, 2009, 06:09:31 AM »

Quote from: Jehanne

Quote from: Roman Catholic
Quote from: Jehanne

As I have said before, God exists because we exist

???

Our existence proves the existence of God.

Ah, I agree with that. The former statement reads like God's existence is dependent our existence.

Jehanne · « **Reply #14 on:** November 27, 2009, 07:13:47 AM »

Quote from: Roman Catholic

Quote from: Jehanne
Quote from: Roman Catholic
Quote from: Jehanne

As I have said before, God exists because we exist

???

Our existence proves the existence of God.

Ah, I agree with that. The former statement reads like God's existence is dependent our existence.

One could read it that way, but you would have to invoke some strange ideas of causality, which, upon further reflection, I would not put beyond some New Agers. In my cosmology, the One and Triune God would be the First Cause (and, indeed, Only and Sole cause) of our existence.