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Author Topic: Ugly Churches  (Read 1834 times)

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Offline rcentros

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Ugly Churches
« on: March 29, 2013, 06:33:53 AM »
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  • Was reading the "Dolorous Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ" and ran into this passage (future sins that the Venerable Anne Catherine Emmerich saw on Mount Olivet that caused much of Christ's sufferings) ...

    Quote
    Entire neglect reigned everywhere, all things were left to moulder away in dust and filth, and the worship of God was, if not inwardly profaned, at least outwardly dishonoured. Nor did this arise from real poverty, but from indifference, sloth, preoccupation of mind about vain earthly concerns, and often also from egotism and spiritual death; for I saw neglect of this kind in churches the pastors and congregations of which were rich, or at least tolerably well off. I saw many others in which worldly, tasteless, unsuitable ornaments had replaced the magnificent adornments of a more pious age.


    For example ...

    http://www.panoramio.com/photo/9841289


    Offline Stubborn

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    Ugly Churches
    « Reply #1 on: March 29, 2013, 06:44:21 AM »
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  • Fr. nails it:

    .......................Not until you accept this incredible fact will you be able to see the whole matter, clearly, as shocking and ghastly as it is. Again, its sheer incredibility blinds us to what is right before us. Only this fact explains why the "New Liturgy" requires the complete riddance of the True Mass, and all that pertains to it.
    It could never coexist with the True Mass since it is diametrically opposite. Consider, for instance, how it has been necessary to purge completely even the architecture and adornment of all the appointments of our churches. For they bespeak the nature of the True Mass, so different from the "New Mass." Step by step, the altar was dismantled, the tabernacle was relegated, the statues were removed, the stations were taken down, the communion rail was hauled out. Everything symbolic of the mysteries and the glories of the Faith had to be cleared away. In their fanaticism and ignorance, they who accomplished this pleaded that these things were either old-fashioned or poor art, or some such nonsense. This is not to defend cheap or manufactured or soulless art-pieces. Nor is it a condemnation of all art that is contemporary. It is, rather, the exposure of this Revolutionary belligerence towards all things Catholic. - Fr. Wathen 1971
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    Ugly Churches
    « Reply #2 on: March 29, 2013, 09:24:27 AM »
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  • When you visit this place, look for the pharaoh's tomb.

    A prime example of unheavenly, uninspiring, and unless you are a
    committed modernist, just want to run away from as fast as possible.

    Offline John Grace

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    Ugly Churches
    « Reply #3 on: March 29, 2013, 04:04:00 PM »
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  • I was reading the same book for most of the day and then the Missal. As regard "Ugly Churches", I was in one a few days ago. Ironically I was outside it several times 13 years ago.  

    Offline Cato

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    Ugly Churches
    « Reply #4 on: March 29, 2013, 06:28:41 PM »
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  • It really reveals the piety of Christians prior to the Modern age with how much effort and sacrifice they put into their churches.  The modern world will never build anything like was built in the Middle Ages.  Instead of building houses of God which will last centuries we slap together some sheet rock and spend the rest of our cash on trivial things.

    I find it interesting how many folks find modern churches ugly.  After Vatican II, why was the church leadership so apt to build such ugly churches?  Didn't they know it would hurt the faithful?


    Offline Emitte Lucem Tuam

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    Ugly Churches
    « Reply #5 on: March 29, 2013, 09:53:40 PM »
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  • Quote from: Cato
    It really reveals the piety of Christians prior to the Modern age with how much effort and sacrifice they put into their churches.  The modern world will never build anything like was built in the Middle Ages.  Instead of building houses of God which will last centuries we slap together some sheet rock and spend the rest of our cash on trivial things.

    I find it interesting how many folks find modern churches ugly.  After Vatican II, why was the church leadership so apt to build such ugly churches?  Didn't they know it would hurt the faithful?


    These "church leaders" you speak about had completely lost the Holy Catholic Faith.  They replaced It with a blasphemous religion.  That's how they could (and did) destroy churches.  There was a definite method to their madness.  The priests and bishops who did these things -  like ripping out high altars, tearing down statues, leading heretical "masses", destroying communion rails, etc. had an agenda and a goal - and that was to destroy Catholicism and replace it with the worship of Man.  But to accomplish all of this, these priests and bishops (along with the laity who followed them) had to have lost the Faith to begin with.  It is impossible to take part in the iconoclastic actions after Vatican II and remain Catholic.  That's just fundamental logic.

    As Bl. Anne Emmerich said:

    Entire neglect reigned everywhere, all things were left to moulder away in dust and filth, and the worship of God was, if not inwardly profaned, at least outwardly dishonoured. Nor did this arise from real poverty, but from indifference, sloth, preoccupation of mind about vain earthly concerns, and often also from egotism and spiritual death; for I saw neglect of this kind in churches the pastors and congregations of which were rich, or at least tolerably well off. I saw many others in which worldly, tasteless, unsuitable ornaments had replaced the magnificent adornments of a more pious age.

    You can't take part or be a part of this without loosing the Faith - especially with what went on after Vat. II.  I think this description by Bl. Anne Emmerich was very lenient compare to what we have seen in the past 50 years.


    Offline Elizabeth

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    Ugly Churches
    « Reply #6 on: March 29, 2013, 09:58:04 PM »
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  • Michael Rose, author of Goodbye, Good Men a former  architect, has another book called Ugly As Sin about this very subject.




    Offline Anthony Benedict

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    Ugly Churches
    « Reply #7 on: March 29, 2013, 10:31:28 PM »
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  • I believe Latin Mass Magazine, perhaps back in the eraly 90s, had an issue that was titled "churches from Hell", featuring the space ships and alien monstrosities erected in Italy ( even Rome ) under Santo Subito hisself.


    Offline AlligatorDicax

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    « Reply #8 on: March 29, 2013, 11:58:52 PM »
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  • Quote from: RomanCatholic1953 (Mar 29, 2013, 10:24 am)
    When you visit this place, look for the pharaoh's tomb.
    Collegeville, Minnesota, "St.John's Abby University Church.jpg"

    "Church"?  Riiight!  I don't doubt that that could've been the official disinformation from the U.S. Department of Defense.  But now that the Cold War is over, maybe a 'Freedom of Information' request could get an answer revealing what it really is?

    I suspect that it was a bold experiment in disguising a ballistic-missile detection RADAR installation.  That vertical slab is obviously some kind of 'fence'-style RADAR antenna, with its apparently smooth surface hiding a complex metal latticework inside.

    Offline rcentros

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    Ugly Churches
    « Reply #9 on: March 30, 2013, 01:21:43 AM »
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  • Quote from: RomanCatholic1953
    When you visit this place, look for the pharaoh's tomb.

    A prime example of unheavenly, uninspiring, and unless you are a
    committed modernist, just want to run away from as fast as possible.


    That's hideous. Ugh. I thought my example was bad enough. Wonder what the inside of that building looks like.

    Offline rcentros

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    Ugly Churches
    « Reply #10 on: March 30, 2013, 01:27:54 AM »
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  • Quote from: Elizabeth
    Michael Rose, author of Goodbye, Good Men a former  architect, has another book called Ugly As Sin about this very subject.


    I've seen this book mentioned before. I'll have to pick up a copy. (I think this would be better in printed form than as an eBook.)

    Thanks for the reference.


    Offline Elizabeth

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    « Reply #11 on: March 30, 2013, 10:27:57 AM »
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  • Quote from: rcentros
    Quote from: Elizabeth
    Michael Rose, author of Goodbye, Good Men a former  architect, has another book called Ugly As Sin about this very subject.


    I've seen this book mentioned before. I'll have to pick up a copy. (I think this would be better in printed form than as an eBook.)

    Thanks for the reference.


    Ironically, I became aware of it in a bookstore of an "ugly as sin" church--and admired whoever slipped it in. :laugh1:  Anyway. Mr. Rose is well worth reading.  As an Ivy League educated architect, he is extremely meticulous by nature, charitable and well-balanced.  He has paid a lot of dues as a result of the nature of his research forGoodbye, Good Men.

    Offline ihsv

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    Ugly Churches
    « Reply #12 on: March 30, 2013, 07:07:01 PM »
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  • Quote from: RomanCatholic1953
    When you visit this place, look for the pharaoh's tomb.

    A prime example of unheavenly, uninspiring, and unless you are a
    committed modernist, just want to run away from as fast as possible.


    Looks like a goal post.
    Confiteor unum baptisma in remissionem peccatorum. - Nicene Creed

    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    Ugly Churches
    « Reply #13 on: March 30, 2013, 08:25:05 PM »
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  • Quote from: Cato
    It really reveals the piety of Christians prior to the Modern age with how much effort and sacrifice they put into their churches.  The modern world will never build anything like was built in the Middle Ages.  Instead of building houses of God which will last centuries we slap together some sheet rock and spend the rest of our cash on trivial things.

    I find it interesting how many folks find modern churches ugly.  After Vatican II, why was the church leadership so apt to build such ugly churches?  Didn't they know it would hurt the faithful?


    It was deliberately planned that way.  Catholic's whom treasure the
    salvation of theirs and neighbors Souls will run from the ugly and see
    it what is really is, an attack by the devil and the forces of hell.
    Look what they did to Holy Name Cathedral in Chicago. There are
    threads posted previously and available on CI.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Ugly Churches
    « Reply #14 on: March 31, 2013, 07:07:49 AM »
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  • It seems to me that a pretty good example of this is Our Lady of the Angels
    so-called Cathedral in Los Angeles:

    http://www.olacathedral.org/

    The website doesn't show much in photos, and that's for a reason.  The more
    you see of it the more it becomes obvious that it's ugly.  So they use a
    minimalist approach in the images to make you confused.  You have a
    curiosity that naturally desires to see more images so you can decide
    what to think of what you're looking at, but you don't get that.  You get
    half-images and odd angles that do not show the whole of what you are
    trying to see.  So you come away "wanting to see more," and that makes
    you think that you liked what you saw.  Clever, no?  



    As for opinions, there are two kinds of impressions you will get from
    people.  People with little or no religious faith tend to think it's a great
    building, because it's so modern.  People with a fervent Catholic faith
    are not pleased with it, because it does nothing for their appreciation
    of their faith to be in this place.  They do not feel any desire to pray
    there, only to leave.  Of course, this is what I have found, and my
    opinion could be biased.  That is to say, of those to whom I have
    spoken about this who think it's a good building for the Archdiocese
    Cathedral are people whose sense of being Catholic is very different
    from mine, so I would say that "they're not Catholic," but then they
    would say the same about me, because my faith is not like theirs.  

    This is what the NovusOrdo has done to the Church:  it has divided it.

    Guess what this thing is:



    I won't torture you.  It is the "tabernacle."  Surprise!!  It is not easily
    found.  If you don't know where to look for it, you'll probably have
    to ask for directions from someone.  But if you have a map, and you
    now know a clue for what you're looking to see, you might hunt it
    down on your own.  It's in a sort of "room" all by itself, literally in
    exile.  There is no way for anyone in the "nave" area to see when
    someone is putting something into it or taking something out of it or
    using some spray paint or a hammer to vandalize it.  I'm sure that is
    why it looks the way it does, because they must have used workers
    with vandalism experience to give it the look it has already.  It is entirely
    out of sight from every possible location in the building, except for right
    in the passageway that goes into the "room" and that means space for
    about 10 people max. to see it unless you're actually IN the "room" when
    you're looking at it.  With people packed like sardines in there, you'd get
    around 30, I suppose, in the "room." So it's not really big enough to hold
    a disco dance, let's say.  

    The floor plan and wall design have a number of "passageways to nowhere"
    built in.  It's as though they are deliberately encouraging teenagers to hang
    out in separate groups, talking in church.  

    When you enter through the "large brass doors" that are normally open,
    you find no holy water font.  You have to A)  ask someone where to find it,
    or B)  already know where to go.  You cannot ever guess where it is on your
    own, so Catholics with normal Catholic sense thereby feel unwelcome right
    away.  You have to walk about 60 feet in a direction you were not going
    to go, to dip your hand into the jacuzzi - sorry, I mean baptismal
    font.  Needless to say, just as genuflecting once a year on Christmas day
    for the Credo lost followers after about 3 years, so too, now nobody bothers
    to go get holy water there anymore, but for possibly 10 people a day, and
    maybe 15 on Sunday.  


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