Author Topic: Troubling sermon (Read 1978 times)

Cera · « **on:** October 26, 2013, 07:15:25 PM »

At my chapel, we have had two sermons in a row telling us "do not criticize the Pope." Romans 1:13 was also quoted. I am stunned. What? St. Thomas Aquinas? Athanacious? Any thoughts?

jhfromsf68 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 26, 2013, 07:22:12 PM »

Is this at an SSPX chapel? If so, what was said?

Mithrandylan · « **Reply #2 on:** October 26, 2013, 07:25:04 PM »

Quote from: jhfromsf68

Is this at an SSPX chapel? If so, what was said?

And who was the priest?

StCeciliasGirl · « **Reply #3 on:** October 26, 2013, 11:33:27 PM »

Quote from: Cera

At my chapel, we have had two sermons in a row telling us "do not criticize the Pope." Romans 1:13 was also quoted. I am stunned. What? St. Thomas Aquinas? Athanacious? Any thoughts?

Uh, yeah! He's twisting Romans 1:13 by not reading it in context! A few verses down (v16): "For I am not ashamed of the gospel. For it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth, to the Jєω first, and to the Greek."

One simply cannot apply these verses to Frank since Frank is clearly ashamed of the Gospel. He says you don't need to believe anything but your own conscience. (What is that? Self-worship?) Frank asks, "who am I to judge?" about Sodomites, and of course declares, "There is no Catholic God" — to which Fr. Cekada responded "Then there is no Catholic Pope."

Your priest better have a painting of Pope Michael or Pope anyone-else hanging up, but even then, due to non-disclosure of who he refers to as 'pope', I'd high-tail it out of there before lightening strikes the building. Sounds like +Jesus has LEFT the building. I'd follow +Jesus —OUT of there.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #4 on:** October 27, 2013, 05:46:17 AM »

.

You are right to be concerned.
Hearken to the voice you hear.........

Quote from: Cera

At my chapel, we have had two sermons in a row telling us "do not criticize the Pope." Romans 1:13 was also quoted. I am stunned. What? St. Thomas Aquinas? Athanacious? Any thoughts?

There is a reason for the message not to criticize the Pope.

In days like these, when the Pope is doing things and saying
things that make an embarrassment out of being Catholic,
criticizing the pope ends up taking on a life of its own. You
find you have more and more in common with Protestants.

Or, in the other extreme (which has two divisions) you find
you have more and more in common with sedevacantists.

One division is the home-aloner approach, that you can't
find anyone anymore who's Catholic by your estimation,
so you just stay home and forget about Mass.

And the other division is the cultish trend you find in sede
groups where their cutting themselves off from the head
of the Church doesn't leave them with any life from the
vine, and their faith withers. The answer to all problems
is the pope is not the pope and the bishops are not the
bishops, and actually, most of the priests are not priests.

We are now living in the great chastisement. Those with
eyes to see, let them see: and those with ears to hear, let
them hear. But those who will not see and will not hear:
let them be anathema.

.

soulguard · « **Reply #5 on:** October 27, 2013, 06:13:32 AM »

All of the popes since Vatican 2 have absolutely been heretics, and they are just getting more outrageous as time goes on. They are material heretics, but whether they are formal heretics like luther who said "the church is wrong" is debatable. Francis has probably said "the church is wrong" with some of his statements, and so he is a formal heretic, and so he falls ipso facto from the office of the pope and out of the church. The cardinals just don't have the balls to challenge him, or they don't want to because they're also heretics who like the fact he is destroying whats left of the Catholic faith.

StCeciliasGirl · « **Reply #6 on:** October 27, 2013, 10:37:03 AM »

Quote from: Neil Obstat

.

You are right to be concerned.
Hearken to the voice you hear.........

Quote from: Cera
At my chapel, we have had two sermons in a row telling us "do not criticize the Pope." Romans 1:13 was also quoted. I am stunned. What? St. Thomas Aquinas? Athanacious? Any thoughts?

There is a reason for the message not to criticize the Pope.

In days like these, when the Pope is doing things and saying
things that make an embarrassment out of being Catholic,
criticizing the pope ends up taking on a life of its own. You
find you have more and more in common with Protestants.

Or, in the other extreme (which has two divisions) you find
you have more and more in common with sedevacantists.

One division is the home-aloner approach, that you can't
find anyone anymore who's Catholic by your estimation,
so you just stay home and forget about Mass.

And the other division is the cultish trend you find in sede
groups where their cutting themselves off from the head
of the Church doesn't leave them with any life from the
vine, and their faith withers. The answer to all problems
is the pope is not the pope and the bishops are not the
bishops, and actually, most of the priests are not priests.

We are now living in the great chastisement. Those with
eyes to see, let them see: and those with ears to hear, let
them hear. But those who will not see and will not hear:
let them be anathema.

I agree with this great chastisement part (because it's hard for anyone to find Mass and not have that little question mark hanging over our heads, unlike pre-Vatican II Mass, I assume). For all the people who do stay home from Mass because their locals are just that bad (flaming Sodomite "priests" who are by canon law no longer priests), or those of us in an SV chapel always looking for the next priest, or those of us stuck "in between" (FSSP, maybe Anglican Indults, or Neo-SSPX — unable to speak out against heresies), we're pretty much ALL trying to worship God, hear some chant, and maybe get available Sacraments.

(I would still exit a chapel that said not to criticize Bergoglio or, for Heaven's sake, quoted Bergoglio. There are MUCH better things to talk about in a sermon. 1900 years worth of nicer things.)

But when would you think this chastisement might end? The chastisement spoken of in apparitions usually ends with a relatively short period of peace, then has another, more final end a short time later. We're 50yrs in, older than most of us posting.

In that time, nations have disappeared: Yugoslavia stands out, Czechoslovakia, East Germany, the U.S.S.R., Tibet, Sikkem (near Tibet, very old!), South Vietnam, and arguably the top part of Japan was wiped out, and the west part of Sudan. Plus the U.S. and Israel want to turn Iran into a parking lot.

I think some special graces are being supplied, because we already have to act like we're in the chastisement (not be part of the world; shut our windows; have our own blessed candles to burn; sing holy songs). See the thread about not turning on your TV.

Only, I don't see an end to this "3 days" in sight.

Mabel · « **Reply #7 on:** October 27, 2013, 11:06:54 AM »

What is troubling about this is that by saying "Don't criticize" they are saying "don't think about what he is saying." We should always think about what the pope and our bishops are saying to us. Unfortunately, in our times, with this chastisement there are wolves in our midst, and we must think with a critical mind. If we were not to do so, we would fail to hold fast to our Faith and traditions. Some are less capable than others, and I don't mean that as an insult.

This mess isn't for the heads of one group to sort out for their underlings. Each one must weigh the facts of the case, understand the principles, and act according to the level of understanding of the crisis that God has allowed. A very simple person might not be able to see through Francis, but they might still hold and cherish the Catholic Faith just as much as someone that understands the situation well and has taken a position on the matter. I have to wonder if God allows such differences in order that people remain where they can best save their souls.

I firmly believe that God will have mercy on all of us with good will, during these times. In the meantime, we need to pick up our rosaries and fight our common enemy instead of one another.

TKGS · « **Reply #8 on:** October 27, 2013, 11:44:56 AM »

Quote from: jhfromsf68

Is this at an SSPX chapel? If so, what was said?

I, too, would like to know at what chapel this was said and precisely what was said. Can you please illuminate us?

Ladislaus · « **Reply #9 on:** October 27, 2013, 01:38:29 PM »

If this is an SSPX priest, then he needs to make haste back to the Novus Ordo, for the very existence of the SSPX IS a criticism of the pope.

Ambrose · « **Reply #10 on:** October 27, 2013, 01:54:50 PM »

Neil Obstat wrote:

Quote

One division is the home-aloner approach, that you can't
find anyone anymore who's Catholic by your estimation,
so you just stay home and forget about Mass.

And the other division is the cultish trend you find in sede
groups where their cutting themselves off from the head
of the Church doesn't leave them with any life from the
vine, and their faith withers. The answer to all problems
is the pope is not the pope and the bishops are not the
bishops, and actually, most of the priests are not priests.

Do you enjoy misrepresenting and generalizing these positions, or are you just ignorant?

StCeciliasGirl · « **Reply #11 on:** October 29, 2013, 12:45:09 PM »

I just saw the Anglicans, the Anglicans with FEMALE PRIESTS and SODOMITE UNIONS, those Anglicans, discussing how Bergoglio has sprouted horns because of this article: Bergoglio calls ideological Christians a SERIOUS ILLNESS within the church.

When King Henry VIII's own can legitimately look DOWN on a creature, and want it dead, and inherently ask themselves "what have WE wrought" (I'm quoting, but my emphasis)...

I think it's safe to call Wormwood now: it was clearly Vatican II. It's hard to imagine that God would have flung V2 at the earth, but clearly it poisoned the waters and helped birth the beast.

Ah well. We had a good run. Here's the article that upset the Anglicans:

Quote

Pope Francis describes ‘ideological Christians’ as a ‘serious illness’ within the Church

By Eric W. Dolan
Monday, October 21, 2013 9:21 EDT

Speaking at daily Mass last Thursday, Pope Francis warned Christians against turning their faith into a rigid ideology.

“The faith passes, so to speak, through a distiller and becomes ideology,” he said, according to Radio Vatican. “And ideology does not beckon [people]. In ideologies there is not Jesus: in his tenderness, his love, his meekness. And ideologies are rigid, always. Of every sign: rigid.

“And when a Christian becomes a disciple of the ideology, he has lost the faith: he is no longer a disciple of Jesus, he is a disciple of this attitude of thought… For this reason Jesus said to them: ‘You have taken away the key of knowledge.’ The knowledge of Jesus is transformed into an ideological and also moralistic knowledge, because these close the door with many requirements.”

“The faith becomes ideology and ideology frightens, ideology chases away the people, distances, distances the people and distances of the Church of the people,” Francis added. “But it is a serious illness, this of ideological Christians. It is an illness, but it is not new, eh?”

He said Christian ideology was the result of a lack of true prayer.

Watch video, courtesy of Rome Reports, below:

I'm not linking the video, but the article is linked if anyone cares to go watch it.

When THE ANGLICANS, who aren't even actively SEEKING union with Bergoglio, are concerned and "criticize" (I put that lightly) Bergoglio, what kind of priest calling himself Catholic can tell his laity NOT to?

Incredulous · « **Reply #12 on:** October 29, 2013, 01:16:11 PM »

Quote from: Cera

At my chapel, we have had two sermons in a row telling us "do not criticize the Pope." Romans 1:13 was also quoted. I am stunned. What? St. Thomas Aquinas? Athanacious? Any thoughts?

In all tender understanding and gentleness, give your priest a beach ball.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #13 on:** October 30, 2013, 11:52:21 PM »

Quote from: Ambrose

Neil Obstat wrote:

Quote
One division is the home-aloner approach, that you can't
find anyone anymore who's Catholic by your estimation,
so you just stay home and forget about Mass.

And the other division is the cultish trend you find in sede
groups where their cutting themselves off from the head
of the Church doesn't leave them with any life from the
vine, and their faith withers. The answer to all problems
is the pope is not the pope and the bishops are not the
bishops, and actually, most of the priests are not priests.

Do you enjoy misrepresenting and generalizing these positions, or are you just ignorant?

Excuse me for my ignorance. You must proffer another
option, then, what? I left one out? Is it perchance the
one where the sedes who await the election of a "real"
pope are going to be electing their own one of these
days? Please inform me.

I could have brought up the dogmatic sedes who profess
that there will never be another pope and we are going
to see the Church dying just in time for the Second Coming
which will be right on cue for them since they know it all.
(Regardless of what Scripture says, of course.) But I didn't
want to be rubbing it in too much.

But since you've bothered to ask.................

.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #14 on:** October 31, 2013, 12:07:44 AM »

Quote from: Incredulous

Quote from: Cera
At my chapel, we have had two sermons in a row telling us "do not criticize the Pope." Romans 1:13 was also quoted. I am stunned. What? St. Thomas Aquinas? Athanacious? Any thoughts?

In all tender understanding and gentleness, give your priest a beach ball.

Does it have to be yellow and green with a red, white and
blue end circle on it? If it's not, would that be a heresy?

But seriously, what did Our Lord say? Pick up your cross,
and come, follow me?

Did he say that you should complain about your cross?

Did he say that you should hurl insults back at those who
jeer at you from the side of the Via Dolorosa?

Did he say you should criticize the judgments of Pontius
Pilate or the Sanhedrin?

Did he say you should flinch when they spit in your face?

Did he say you should squirm and try to avoid the Crown
of Thorns which He endured to atone for the intellectual
sins of men, like the intellectual sin of sedevacantism?

Did he say you should pull your arms away when they try
to drive 8-inch long nails through your main nerve in your
wrists?

Did he say you should bend your knees and pull your feet
up when they try to nail your feet to the crooked block
that's under them?

.