Author Topic: Traditionalist Catholic Law? (Read 1796 times)

ProtectorofOrder · « **on:** May 23, 2014, 04:19:21 AM »

Notice how the Muslims are trying to create their own Sharia Law court and legal system to try to dominate western world politics in an attempt to create a Muslim Religious Law rule by attempting to prove that it's superior?

What about if the Church were to rekindle the Catholic legal system and bring it back with some adaptions and improvements and prove that it is far superior to the secular legal system? Maybe if we can do this with a kind of our counterpart of Sharia law we could restore the rightful rule of the Church in the western world once again? Many people today would believe in an eye for an eye punishment for murderers for example, the secular "justice" system isn't very effective at dealing with evil today.

poche · « **Reply #1 on:** May 23, 2014, 04:41:55 AM »

In the Gospel of St John there was a point where the people want to carry Jesus off to make him king and he rejects them. The purpose of the Church is not to be a trmporal power.

ProtectorofOrder · « **Reply #2 on:** May 23, 2014, 04:56:28 AM »

Quote from: poche

In the Gospel of St John there was a point where the people want to carry Jesus off to make him king and he rejects them. The purpose of the Church is not to be a trmporal power.

But didn't they rule society long ago?

TKGS · « **Reply #3 on:** May 23, 2014, 06:27:52 AM »

Quote from: ProtectorofOrder

Quote from: poche
In the Gospel of St John there was a point where the people want to carry Jesus off to make him king and he rejects them. The purpose of the Church is not to be a temporal power.

But didn't they rule society long ago?

Not in the way you are thinking and not in the way the Muslims rule their conquered territories today.

The Church and State are supposed to work together. This is true. A Christian State would subject it's laws to the moral principles taught by the Church. But the Church would not rule nor command in all aspects of government as do the Islamic clerics in Muslim countries.

shin · « **Reply #4 on:** May 23, 2014, 09:47:33 AM »

Christendom has fallen but her laws are still in the history books, there is such a great ignorance of the beautiful past.

The revisionist histories and propaganda of the world powers today do their best to keep it hidden and considered dark instead of bright.

The world forgets the days of bishops ruling lands and the Papal States, and if they remember they disparage them.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #5 on:** May 23, 2014, 09:57:33 AM »

Quote from: poche

The purpose of the Church is not to be a temporal power.

Don't buy into the Masonic separation of Church and state propaganda. Every state should be ruled under a Traditional Catholic legal system.

But of course, in your worship of the V2 papal claimants you've undoubtedly been conditioned on this matter.

ProtectorofOrder · « **Reply #6 on:** May 23, 2014, 08:15:18 PM »

I wish Christendom would rule again with the State and the Church uniting again. They would be so much more effective at dealing with crime and evil than today's system.

Today's system is heading towards a major economic crisis and alot of immorality is happening. It may also ultimately lead to chaos. We need Christendom back and convince people that it is superior to the secular system. Doing so would also prevent Islam's Shariah Law from taking over if done before they get there.

poche · « **Reply #7 on:** May 23, 2014, 11:18:04 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

Quote from: poche
The purpose of the Church is not to be a temporal power.

Don't buy into the Masonic separation of Church and state propaganda. Every state should be ruled under a Traditional Catholic legal system.

But of course, in your worship of the V2 papal claimants you've undoubtedly been conditioned on this matter.

It is not masonic. It is what Jesus said.

Anthony Benedict · « **Reply #8 on:** May 24, 2014, 03:03:46 PM »

I would suggest that, given the REALITY of our current age, in the long run, it really won't make a dime's worth of difference who controls the state, or kingdom, or protectorate, or what have you.

There were successes and disasters in various forms, since Apostolic times. But those are long gone, kaput, fini - both good and bad.

Wherever the Church was upright, pious and convincing, enough of the population managed to at least respect that and people, generally speaking, were better off, in many cases politically, as well as spiritually and morally.
But man is still man and free will is a cast iron *****. Period.

Anyone counting on a long succession of wise, holy popes, devout bishops and respectful civilians, no matter what form of governance obtains in any particular instance, is setting himself up for massive disappointment. It would take generations to clean out the Augean stables of Vatican politics (much of it held over from centuries before) even if a Catholic pope, a real Saint, were to take the reins in his hand tomorrow.

But if even that assessment is too pessimistic, the other half of the problem is governance in a time of metastasizing nuclear weapons' and delivery systems' technology, law by executive fiat usurping the constitutional republic, massive economic instability and balkanization.

The whirlwind has already picked everyone and everything up and where we shall finally crash land is anyone's guess.

shin · « **Reply #9 on:** May 24, 2014, 03:30:04 PM »

'That the State must be separated from the Church is a thesis absolutely false, a most pernicious error. Based, as it is, on the principle that the State must not recognize any religious cult, it is in the first place guilty of a great injustice to God; for the Creator of man is also the Founder of human societies, and preserves their existence as He preserves our own. We owe Him, therefore, not only a private cult, but a public and social worship to honor Him.

Besides, this thesis is an obvious negation of the supernatural order. It limits the action of the State to the pursuit of public prosperity during this life only, which is but the proximate object of political societies; and it occupies itself in no fashion (on the plea that this is foreign to it) with their ultimate object which is man's eternal happiness after this short life shall have run its course. But as the present order of things is temporary and subordinated to the conquest of man's supreme and absolute welfare, it follows that the civil power must not only place no obstacle in the way of this conquest, but must aid us in effecting it.

The same thesis also upsets the order providentially established by God in the world, which demands a harmonious agreement between the two societies. Both of them, the civil and the religious society, although each exercises in its own sphere its authority over them. It follows necessarily that there are many things belonging to them in common in which both societies must have relations with one another. Remove the agreement between Church and State, and the result will be that from these common matters will spring the seeds of disputes which will become acute on both sides; it will become more difficult to see where the truth lies, and great confusion is certain to arise.

Finally, this thesis inflicts great injury on society itself, for it cannot either prosper or last long when due place is not left for religion, which is the supreme rule and the sovereign mistress in all questions touching the rights and the duties of men. Hence the Roman Pontiffs have never ceased, as circuмstances required, to refute and condemn the doctrine of the separation of Church and State.'

Pope St. Pius X, 'Vehementor Nos'

Anthony Benedict · « **Reply #10 on:** May 25, 2014, 05:11:10 PM »

Shin, thank you for your post, which words of our beloved Holy Father I endorse fully, quite naturally.

Insofar as my own post may seem cynical, by contrast, it was meant to point out the futility in our present day of discussions predicated upon a "Catholic State" when every last one of them has disappeared, too often by Vatican direction.

In other words, unlike 100 years ago when St. Pius X composed 'Vehementor Nos', both Church and State are incapable - at this moment, anyway - of even beginning to re-establish order, propriety and supernaturally-oriented absolutes while the respective institutions remain in the hands of Revolutionaries.

That is not to say grassroots efforts are worthless. Not at all. However, in the practical sense, convincing the powers that be, whether in Rome, London, DC or Paris that the nations they represent ought to be governed as Catholic States isn't going to produce any immediate results.