Author Topic: Traditional Catholics in the late 60s and early 70s (Read 4609 times)

JustaServant · « **on:** March 11, 2012, 11:25:54 AM »

What were the reactions toward traditional Catholics who opposed the changes in the immediate period following Vatican 2?

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #1 on:** March 11, 2012, 11:58:12 AM »

Rejection, mostly. Reading about Arcbishop LeFebvre will give you a good example.

Jitpring · « **Reply #2 on:** March 11, 2012, 12:24:29 PM »

Treated as lepers.

Wessex · « **Reply #3 on:** March 11, 2012, 12:52:44 PM »

There were some priests who refused to adopt the new liturgy. The process of moving them from their churches and rectories was often a slow one and received much publicity from the secular press portraying an 'authority against the little guy' scenario. There was a priest in eastern England who attracted a large following before Abp. Lefebvre expanded his mission but not many would follow his example. Some, mostly older ones at that time, were pushed aside by the enthusiasm for the changes, bearing them silently.

wallflower · « **Reply #4 on:** March 11, 2012, 12:57:15 PM »

I was not born yet, I'm sure there are others who could give you a much better idea, both personally and generally, but I can say anecdotally that my parents were derided by the priest from the pulpit in the 80's. He never said their names but he would speak down on those who would "stunt the modern progression of the Church" by sticking to archaic traditions such as communion on the tongue, only taking the Body not the Blood, hats/veils at Mass, not allowing their daughters to be altar girls etc...

In a small town of course eeeeverybody knew who he was talking about. My parents were the only ones in our community to buck the changes so to speak. And they weren't even fighters. They weren't in the priest's face, they weren't carrying on any kind of crusade, they were barely verbal about it. They were much too confused at the time to do any of that. They were simply unchanging in their example and that in itself caused a passive-aggressive ruckus. We didn't participate in bringing the gifts up or reading from the pulpit. I remember going to Sunday school once or twice but my parents nixed that rather quickly and we were kept in Mass unlike all the other kids.

Parishioners, who were mainly comprised of extended family and longtime friends took on the priest's attitude and eventually my parents were so uncomfortable that they left. I remember being aware and uncomfortable even as a child. I guess that was a good thing because all it did was reinforce to my parents that something was very wrong. At first they thought it was that specific priest.

We wandered for about a year in terms of where to attend Mass until an elderly friend introduced my parents to the SSPX. From there we learned the doctrine and politics behind it all which really opened our eyes. Before then my parents had that sense but had very simple Faiths and upbringings, they would never have put all the doctrinal/political side of things together on their own.

Things are better with extended family now. A couple have seen the fruit over the last few decades (my whole generation has lost the Faith completely) and believe my parents actually made a good decision, others still don't like what we stand for but have at least accepted that's who we are and treat us like family again. Funny thing is, the one who appreciates my parents the most is the one SIL who is United, not Catholic.

But yes, long story that Jitpring summed up in a nutshell.

Stubborn · « **Reply #5 on:** March 11, 2012, 03:10:19 PM »

The things that stand out from my earliest memories were the 6 or 8 close family friends. 2 priests and 5 or 6 seminarians who had been a year or longer in seminary for the priesthood. The priests went from strict to brainwashed modernists seemingly over night in my memory and all 5 or 6 seminarians left the seminary - this was roughly between 1967 and 1969. By then, the changes were already introduced and the mechanics of the revolution firmly in place and operating as planned. It was more than just the Mass they destroyed and nobody really suspected or knew any thing about what was happening.

There was no internet or even live news far as I remember so there was no way of knowing that the same thing that happened to our priest and seminary friends was happening all over the world - pretty much staged out in waves of sorts.

I won't elaborate on the close relatives that went full out and head long with the changes while my folks tried to remain true to the faith as much as was possible in those confusing times. Needless to say, thanks to the changes, in only a short span of time, we found ourselves without any relatives or close friends.

By 1968 or 1969 after traveling the the state looking for the Mass and not being able to locate one anywhere for months, my folks happened across Fr. Bonfil - he was the priest who handed off the baton to Fr. Ward, the SSPX's first priest in the USA. Anyway, before Fr. Ward, we assisted at Masses in basements, banquet halls, living rooms, hotels etc wherever the true Mass happened to be at the time - the list goes on - all the while keeping a low profile so as not to be discovered by the Bishops or priests of the NO. Whenever news got out that some group here or there was celebrating a traditional Mass, *without fail*, the worst condemners were the NO Church Authorities via the things they said about us radical disobedient dissenters in the popular media. Half jokingly they used to say we were in the catacombs to avoid persecution from "our own".

I remember my mom trying to locate a priest here and a priest there who she had found out was kicked out of their rectory, sometimes for as little as questioning the NO, others were kicked right out into the cold for refusing to say the new mass at all - there's your new springtime for you - freaking lies then and now. Mind you, at that time, my mom was really trying to only find out WTH was happening. She knew the changes were wrong, she didn't really find out just how wrong and how bad till maybe 1970 or 71.

I remember the first time CITH was committed - mainly I recall gasps coming from the pews and the look of horror on many peoples faces when the priest handed the host to someone standing in line while he was smiling telling the person it was ok, egging on the person to take the host, and he did. IMO, all who were there at that mass knew that was a sacrilegious act, yet the revolution was still only gaining steam.

I remember my mom pleading with a priest to say the nuptial Mass for my sister's wedding at one of the diocesan cathedrals - the priest did it but because of the Bishop's temporary absence, he did it without the Bishop's permission or consent (accidentally on purpose imo) ....................the priest wept during that mass, because, as he said, "at the beauty he'd completely forgotten" ...............a few weeks later he was gone, "re-assigned" with no warning or explanation - and far as I remember, no one ever did find out where he was sent.

I remember many gross injustices that befell many good priests at the hands of their NO superiors. Many slanderous and lying accusations were leveled against good priests - that's all it ever took to get rid of them it seems. To be faithful to the true faith and Mass back in the late 60s early 70s meant you remained "underground" and as much as possible, out of the public's eye - otherwise you could expect to suffer the wrath, not the support, of the NO authorities. In my mind, the NO will always remain anti-tradition and anti-Catholic because of what I saw them do to pious people and otherwise good priests and nuns.

I do find it odd that there is very little as far as videos or even news accounts on the web - seems there should be much more written history about those injustices as well as what it actually took to for the NO authorities to destroy the faith of millions along with the Mass and perpetrate the NO all over the world.

Anyway, what I posted are a few experiences as I remember them from that period.

JustaServant · « **Reply #6 on:** March 11, 2012, 04:11:26 PM »

Thanks.
If anyone else has any memories, please share.

Jitpring · « **Reply #7 on:** March 11, 2012, 05:34:41 PM »

Quote from: Stubborn

...

I do find it odd that there is very little as far as videos or even news accounts on the web - seems there should be much more written history about those injustices as well as what it actually took to for the NO authorities to destroy the faith of millions along with the Mass and perpetrate the NO all over the world.

Thanks for sharing this firsthand account of the horror. Yes, these stories must be told! Yours is the WWIII generation. Like the WWII generation, your stories need to be secured for the record before you disappear. We must never forget this horror!

JustaServant · « **Reply #8 on:** March 11, 2012, 07:57:55 PM »

Quote from: Stubborn

I do find it odd that there is very little as far as videos or even news accounts on the web - seems there should be much more written history about those injustices as well as what it actually took to for the NO authorities to destroy the faith of millions along with the Mass and perpetrate the NO all over the world.

I am, in a small way trying to docuмent those stories. As they must be passed onto the next generation.
Please continue.

Sede Catholic · « **Reply #9 on:** March 12, 2012, 04:13:47 AM »

Quote from: JustaServant

What were the reactions toward traditional Catholics who opposed the changes in the immediate period following Vatican 2?

Persecution of the Clergy.
Persecution of the Laity

Lies and villification.

Just like today.

Maizar · « **Reply #10 on:** March 12, 2012, 06:10:56 AM »

The Catholic Church in Eastern Europe went through a very different history. Prior to the collapse of the Soviet Union, as far as I am aware, the Mass was in Latin and the rite unchanged.

After the collapse, many of the bishops in Eastern Europe were in favor of Tradition. From The Angelus Online back in 2002:

Quote

We have been approached by a little congregation of Sisters, founded in 1998 by Cardinal Vincentas Sladkevicius of Vilnius, former Archbishop Emeritus of Kaunas. Before he died on May 28, 2000, he left orders with the Sisters: "When the Society of Saint Pius X comes, you must join them. They will restore the Church in Lithuania." May God with His grace enable us to live up to the Archbishop's expectations! Cardinal Sladkevicius said that the Society will be principal to the revival of the Catholic Church in Lithuania. Wow! I hope he is a prophet! Thank you, Cardinal: we will pray for your beautiful soul.

Quote

I always thought that Lithuania had the best chance of the nations of Eastern Europe for Tradition. It is a very special country, as you already know. I personally visited it many times about 10-12 years ago. The Catholics are very pious and devoted to Mary in Lithuania and that is why they don't want this modernism. I heard from a Carmelite nun in Lithuania that the nuntius tried to suppress devotion to Mary. The people pleaded to the Pope. So now, Rome is still suppressing, but is doing it more slowly.

This country was the most Catholic country in the Soviet Union and made it their mission to remain Catholic under its rule. It seemed Rome didn't appreciate such fidelity. And now we say, "Why did we fight all these years under Communism for the Catholic Church? Now the Church has changed and doesn't want us this way anymore?!"

On introduction of the Novus Ordo rite, mass attendances plummeted throughout the region, but in Lithuania many bishops and priests still secretly said the true Mass, and when the SSPX arrived they were welcomed with open arms (by the faithful, not the masonic stooges since appointed as bishops by New Rome).

Wessex · « **Reply #11 on:** March 12, 2012, 07:28:50 AM »

Going from communism to modernism has left the top officials in place, so traditionalists will not see much difference. The Society may indeed fill a void but in a very discreet way as it has done elsewhere over the years. But it has left some people very disappointed and suspicious of its future intentions.

bernadette · « **Reply #12 on:** March 12, 2012, 10:36:28 AM »

The further we get from the 1960's, the stronger the conciliar church becomes. I don't remember any dissenters in our parish, it seemed everyone went along willingly with the new springtime, the modernism. But absolutely, nearly all of the children (my generation) of the families who went along, lost the faith and left the church. We went from Catholic to Protestant almost over night. There were so few marriages by the time I reached my late teens that it was scary.

Now, the NO is so Protestantized and the younger generations so indoctrinated in the conciliar faith, I can't see how it can ever turn back. Every NO church and parish here in the US, has an elementary school attached, and run by the modernists. And believe you me, there is no lack of funding and participation in this Diocese, despite the scandals etc..the NO is thriving regardless of what anyone believes...and from the viewpoint of the NO participants...the traditionalists and what they say are no more than weak pleas from the darkest recesses of the church.
One woman in a veil and receiving on the tongue at the NO will not convince anyone of anything....an exercise in futility!

ora pro me · « **Reply #13 on:** March 12, 2012, 03:09:33 PM »

Quote from: JustaServant

What were the reactions toward traditional Catholics who opposed the changes in the immediate period following Vatican 2?

There have been some other threads that discussed this. Emerentiana shared her story and there were others who also shared theirs. I wrote a post or two on those threads.

In a nutshell, those of us who left our V2 parishes in search of Latin Masses either went to a Byzantine Mass or found a Roman Catholic priest who said Mass in someone's home, a hotel room, or some other rented room. We literally felt that we had gone underground as back in the days of the catecombs. Our former fellow parishioners whom we had known for years back in our neighborhood parishes either avoided us or tried to talk us out of being "schismatics" and pleaded with us to "come back to the church". They feared for our salvation and we feared for theirs.

We often had to be very secretive about where we went to a Latin Mass because a priest would have reason to fear for his own welfare if he were caught by the local diocesan authorities for saying a Latin Mass. The local bishop would have his priests report to him if they knew anyone who was saying the Latin Mass. It was outlawed at that time by the V2 bishops.

My family went to a Latin Mass said by an old priest who had already retired and he told us in no uncertain terms to not tell anyone where he lived. If someone was interested in attending his Mass, he would meet with them first. He had good reason to worry about spies because of what I just related in the above paragraph.

CathMomof7 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 13, 2012, 07:14:54 AM »

Quote from: ora pro me

Quote from: JustaServant
What were the reactions toward traditional Catholics who opposed the changes in the immediate period following Vatican 2?

There have been some other threads that discussed this. Emerentiana shared her story and there were others who also shared theirs. I wrote a post or two on those threads.

In a nutshell, those of us who left our V2 parishes in search of Latin Masses either went to a Byzantine Mass or found a Roman Catholic priest who said Mass in someone's home, a hotel room, or some other rented room. We literally felt that we had gone underground as back in the days of the catecombs. Our former fellow parishioners whom we had known for years back in our neighborhood parishes either avoided us or tried to talk us out of being "schismatics" and pleaded with us to "come back to the church". They feared for our salvation and we feared for theirs.

We often had to be very secretive about where we went to a Latin Mass because a priest would have reason to fear for his own welfare if he were caught by the local diocesan authorities for saying a Latin Mass. The local bishop would have his priests report to him if they knew anyone who was saying the Latin Mass. It was outlawed at that time by the V2 bishops.

My family went to a Latin Mass said by an old priest who had already retired and he told us in no uncertain terms to not tell anyone where he lived. If someone was interested in attending his Mass, he would meet with them first. He had good reason to worry about spies because of what I just related in the above paragraph.

This is still happening today.

On Ash Wednesday, our SSPX chapel did not have Mass due to lack of a priest. A woman in our chapel, with whom I have become friends, called me on the phone and asked if our family was interested in attending Mass on that day.

She gave us directions which we followed through a town about 30 or 40 miles from our home. We drove through this town and outside it for about 7 or 8 miles, down a few country roads, in the middle of no-where and parked in front of someone's home. We walked down another driveway and into the basement, which was converted into a chapel. Part of the basement was filled with supplies and gun-cabinets.

The priest was about 50 years old. It was a beautiful Mass, but I could tell from his Latin and mannerisms that this was not his "native" language. I learned later that he is the brother of my friend and had been a NO priest for a number of years.

We talked to him for awhile. He is now an independent priest, offering Masses in the chapel he built in his basement.

I learned from my friend that about 5 or so years before he was removed from his parish, he had found a priest to teach him the Tridentine Mass. He was removed from the diocese because he was witnessed converting a Buddhist on his deathbed, administering the man's Baptism and hearing his confession.

Since his faculties were removed by the diocese, he has remained underground. He has a Mass daily. That evening his chapel was full with familiar faces from my SSPX chapel.

When we left, my husband laughed and joked---"We have at last been accepted and believed to be Catholics of good will and not spies."

I suspect my husband is right. We have been attending Mass every Sunday at our SSPX chapel for almost 2 years.

I remember reading stories like this about Mass in the 60s and 70s. It opened my eyes. Now I have experienced it myself. It changes one's perspective indeed.