Author Topic: Traditional Catholic American Indians (Native Americans) (Read 3291 times)

OldMerry · « **on:** August 11, 2015, 12:03:15 AM »

Does anyone know if there are any Native Americans (American Indians) who are traditional Catholic? By this I mean, any descendants of the converts of St. Isaac Jogues, or of Fr. de Smet, etc. There is such a comeback now of Native American culture - the paganism and false worship - that it is never mentioned that any of them who were Catholic are keeping their traditional Catholic faith.

poche · « **Reply #1 on:** August 11, 2015, 05:07:47 AM »

Here is some information on the national shrine of St Kateri Tekakwitha, the lily of the Mohawks.

http://katerishrine.com/

OldMerry · « **Reply #2 on:** August 11, 2015, 08:46:47 AM »

Thank you, Poche. But I actually was meaning modern Indians - if, say, there are any 2015 traditional Catholic Indians, groups or chapels.

BTNYC · « **Reply #3 on:** August 11, 2015, 09:03:00 AM »

Quote from: poche

Here is some information on the national shrine of St Kateri Tekakwitha, the lily of the Mohawks.

http://katerishrine.com/

Is the Traditional Latin Mass offered at the shrine's chapel, Poche? The website says nothing about it.

Here's a video showing the interior of the chapel. It doesn't look particularly Traditional to me, what with the undignified wooden table altar, wooden tabernacle (or "Box for communion" as the devout and learned videographer puts it) placed off to the side, and pagan, New-Age "dream catchers" placed conspicuously in the nave.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/embed/Qytc9XKoDdk[/youtube]

If they really wanted to honor Kateri Tekakwitha, why didn't they do so by building a chapel that looks like the kind of Catholic chapels she would have been to in her life (which, you can be sure, were not festooned with "dream catchers"), or offer the Immemorial Mass which would have been the only Mass she'd ever known?

Why? Because this whole thing has far less to do with honoring Kateri Tekakwitha than it does with using her name as an excuse to promote abominations like pagan syncretism and religious indifferentism (and the Novus Ordo itself, of course).

So were you acting ignorantly, or deceptively, by posting this in response to a question specifically about Traditional Catholic American Indian groups, Poche?

CathMomof7 · « **Reply #4 on:** August 11, 2015, 01:21:34 PM »

In 1959, the Shrine at Auriesville had 3 Masses a day. I found an old coloring book at a garage sale around here for my children. I can't find the book right now, but we read it together. Apparently it was a spectacular place.

Today, it is a pilgrimage site, but traditional groups are not allowed to say Masses there unless they have pre-approval and only outside in certain areas. The SSPX from here makes a pilgrimage there every year.

Last year, at St. Kateri's shrine, the Native Americans made a big bru-ha-ha about her canonization. Most were overjoyed, but the festivities were a mixture of Native American pagan rituals and NO ecuмenism---nothing that would have pleased St. Kateri.

songbird · « **Reply #5 on:** August 11, 2015, 06:29:39 PM »

Miami Indians were Catholic. French Canadian Indians, catholic. The Miamis chief was buried at Mt Calvary cemetery about the turn of the 1900's. No longer. But maybe in Canada.

Tyler · « **Reply #6 on:** August 11, 2015, 07:44:06 PM »

I am of Lakota Sioux descent, but I am a convert (2012) and have very few connections to my tribe. My great-grandfather was kidnapped off his reservation by Yankee soldiers around the turn of the century and was raised in a Presbyterian household.

poche · « **Reply #7 on:** August 13, 2015, 11:43:30 PM »

Is the Traditional Latin Mass offered at the shrine's chapel, Poche? The website says nothing about it.

According to Summorum Pontificem if a group of atholics requests the celebration of the Traditional Latin Mass then it has to be provided to them. If a request is made in an appropriate manner I don't see why not.

http://w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/letters/2007/docuмents/hf_ben-xvi_let_20070707_lettera-vescovi.html

poche · « **Reply #8 on:** August 13, 2015, 11:51:03 PM »

Here's a video showing the interior of the chapel. It doesn't look particularly Traditional to me, what with the undignified wooden table altar, wooden tabernacle (or "Box for communion" as the devout and learned videographer puts it) placed off to the side, and pagan, New-Age "dream catchers" placed conspicuously in the nave.

In the 17h century, many of the churches and chapels of the missionaries were log cabins and the tabernacles were made of wood.

BTNYC · « **Reply #9 on:** August 14, 2015, 07:38:44 AM »

Quote from: poche

Here's a video showing the interior of the chapel. It doesn't look particularly Traditional to me, what with the undignified wooden table altar, wooden tabernacle (or "Box for communion" as the devout and learned videographer puts it) placed off to the side, and pagan, New-Age "dream catchers" placed conspicuously in the nave.

In the 17h century, many of the churches and chapels of the missionaries were log cabins and the tabernacles were made of wood.

And festooned with dream catchers?

PerEvangelicaDicta · « **Reply #10 on:** August 14, 2015, 08:21:13 AM »

Dreamcatchers?! They are a neo-pagan occult symbol, plain and simple.

Quote

the festivities were a mixture of Native American pagan rituals and NO ecuмenism---nothing that would have pleased St. Kateri.

I like how you phrased that, CathMomof7.

Tyler, what brought you to the Faith, particularly tradition? And pardon my dense head, but I don't know what this means "raised in a ####ian household."
Do you mind spelling it out?

BTNYC · « **Reply #11 on:** August 14, 2015, 08:28:03 AM »

Quote from: poche

Is the Traditional Latin Mass offered at the shrine's chapel, Poche? The website says nothing about it.

According to Summorum Pontificem if a group of atholics requests the celebration of the Traditional Latin Mass then it has to be provided to them. If a request is made in an appropriate manner I don't see why not.

http://w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/letters/2007/docuмents/hf_ben-xvi_let_20070707_lettera-vescovi.html

You can always depend upon Poche to toe the party line, eve when - especially when - reality is at odds with it.

I've seen - and, in my more naïve days, taken part in - several group attempts to have the TLM provided at NO parishes - including my mother's parish (where I received all my first Sacraments). Each time these were answered with polite form letters telling us, in essence, to bugger off.

I was also a witness to what occurred at the Church of Our Saviour in NYC, where Fr. Rutler had perhaps the best-attended TLM in the city. Then, when Cardinal Dolan ousted him, and appointed a successor more amenable to the current Bergoglian atmosphere, one of the first orders of business was to put an end to the TLM at Our Saviour, despite (or more accurately, because of) the fact that there was a very large, very stable group there attending the Mass.

So, please, Poche... Save the "According to Summorum Pontificuм" BS for someone who hasn't seen the wheels of the Conciliar Machine in action.

BTNYC · « **Reply #12 on:** August 14, 2015, 08:35:05 AM »

Quote from: PerEvangelicaDicta

Dreamcatchers?! They are a neo-pagan occult symbol, plain and simple.

True - that's perhaps the most insulting part. Dream Catchers, while pagan, are not even authentically Red Indian pagan instruments. They might as well be hanging Tangerine Dream albums and yoga mats on the walls.

Quote from: PerEvangelicaDicta

Tyler, what brought you to the Faith, particularly tradition? And pardon my dense head, but I don't know what this means "raised in a ####ian household."
Do you mind spelling it out?

He probably meant P r e s b y t e r i a n. For reasons I can't explain, I've seen CI censor that word before.

PerEvangelicaDicta · « **Reply #13 on:** August 14, 2015, 09:06:29 AM »

I first learned about dreamcatchers when I studied Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ. Occult through and through.

As to your experience re: Church of Our Savior, that situation still brings me to tears.

(Thank you for explaining the censored word!)

BTNYC · « **Reply #14 on:** August 14, 2015, 12:42:17 PM »

Quote from: PerEvangelicaDicta

As to your experience re: Church of Our Savior, that situation still brings me to tears.

Apparently Robert Robbins, the current pastor, in addition to being a manifest Modernist, is also a genuine Iconoclast. He's been systematically stripping that once beautiful church of all of its Icons until now little more than the bare walls remain in the Sanctuary. Pope Gregory III's Condemnations and Anathemas ring down the centuries and convict this heretic, whether he knows it or not.

Fr. Rutler brought that parish out of debt and turned it into - if we must speak in such terms - one of the most financially sound parishes in the Archdiocese. One should not be surprised at all to discover that, since Robbins took over, Our Saviour is once again losing money. Cardinal Dolan may be many things, but a bad businessman is not one of them. What he's done to (and allowed to be done to) the Church of Our Saviour can have only one possible explanation: Namely, that he wants not the thriving parish that was under Fr. Rutler (and which the TLM was overwhelmingly responsible for); he wants the emptying, failed, financially insolvent den of Modernism that Robbins is currently turning it into, which would provide him with the excuse he's looking for to shut the parish down and sell that valuable Park Avenue real estate to the highest bidder.