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Author Topic: Trad Catholic "Ecuмenism"  (Read 989 times)

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Offline Dawn

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Trad Catholic "Ecuмenism"
« on: July 11, 2007, 12:11:20 PM »
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  • For as long as I have known that there was a difference between the Novus Ordo Church and the Real Catholic Church there has been fighting between Trads. I think that as long as we are not united we can never expect anything to change in the Vatican II Church because they have no fear of us. We are are own worse enemies. Now, take for instance the wonderful editorials written by Mrs. Kathleen Plumb in the Four Marks. That I believe is what point she is making. As long as we have to spend all of our energies deciding who to side with, SSPV, CMR, Bishop Thuc, (RIP), Bishop Kelly on and on and on we will never have others take us serious. We act like we do not know who the leader is, and we do. It is Jesus Christ, Second Person of the Blessed Trinity. He started one beautiful and the only True Church that ran fairly well until 1962. So, there is the enemy, the "Robber Barons" of Vatican two and not each other.


    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    « Reply #1 on: July 11, 2007, 12:17:48 PM »
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  • This is true, but also to be expected, Dawn.  

    Without the visible representative of the invisible Head to provide the unity and strength we all need, we are like young children left without a sitter when their parents go on a trip.  We do our best to settle things as we believe mom and dad would, but it is just not the same.  Some degree of disorder and disagreement is to be expected, even if it is, objectively, unacceptable, sad, and sometimes even scandalous.

    Recall the Apostles after the Crucifixion.  They were scattered and cowardly, and only those who were with the BVM were standing with any kind of resolve (although even they did not begin to comprehend what just happened, or believe/hope in what was about to happen, as seen in their lack of Faith in the face of Magdalen's testimony).
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."


    Offline Dawn

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    « Reply #2 on: July 11, 2007, 12:24:24 PM »
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  • Hello friend. You were who I was thinking of as I read this article by Mrs. Plumb. Can you explain some of what  this bickering is with Bishop Kelly and the CMRI and SSPV. Each of those groups has a leader, and as long as there is no Catholic Pope, can they not unite so that we are strong. And that would be the perfect banner, Hail Mary, Pray for us.

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    « Reply #3 on: July 11, 2007, 12:25:16 PM »
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  • Quote from: Dawn
    I think that as long as we are not united we can never expect anything to change in the Vatican II Church because they have no fear of us...we will never have others take us serious.


    The V2 sect is a lost cause, imo, and the object at this stage is to save as many as possible from their quickly-disintegrating boat.

    The V2 Church is not the Catholic Church.  Therefore, I do not care if they "fear us", or if anything changes within it, although I do desire others to leave it - Extra ecclesiam catholicam, nulla salus.

    As for being taken seriously, those who love the truth hear His Voice.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    « Reply #4 on: July 11, 2007, 12:30:25 PM »
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  • Quote from: Dawn
    Can you explain some of what  this bickering is with Bishop Kelly and the CMRI and SSPV. Each of those groups has a leader, and as long as there is no Catholic Pope, can they not unite so that we are strong.


    I do not know much about what has transpired between the CMRI and the SSPV, but there is certainly good reason to hope that as the hour grows darker - and it is presently doing so, and palpably at that - many disputes rooted in personality issues will be set aside.  They never should have arisen, but such is the way of men, even in the best of times.

    The medicine we all need has been there all along: "Pray the Rosary".  How many times does the Mother of God need to say, "Take this medicine" before we listen?
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."


    Offline Dawn

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    « Reply #5 on: July 11, 2007, 12:30:49 PM »
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  • Yes, they are a lost cause. But, to be able to convince others as I think we should try. And, you already answered that as well. Let him who has ears hear and most people have Novus Ordo manure in their ears. Thanks

    Offline dust-7

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    « Reply #6 on: July 12, 2007, 02:26:17 AM »
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  • Quote from: Dawn
    For as long as I have known that there was a difference between the Novus Ordo Church and the Real Catholic Church there has been fighting between Trads.


    That has to be expected. It's not because there's no head. It's because what separates us from Protestants and those confessing not even the belief in God is what separates those trying to be faithful to Catholicism. For instance, when Kelly criticizes the Thuc line, it's on the basis that Thuc couldn't be taken seriously. But when he criticizes the SSPX, it's because he rightly criticizes the Roman Protestant, for the same things. The SSPX confess the revised 'canon law', for example. So if it is objectionable, then those who confess it might be subject to criticism, SSPX or no. When he criticizes the Feenyites, it's not because Catholicism looks different in their hands. It's because The Church, prior to Vatican II, found the group to be wrong, and wrong-headed.

    But there are differences as there ought to be.

    I think the problem is that there is this allowance that, given the proper encouragement, some in the Roman Protestant institutions might throw it off and confess Catholicism. If that might be accomplished, then Catholics might NOT lose Notre Dame, or St. Peters, to any further demolition or destruction. The same for the Vatican library, to the extent it hasn't already been destroyed. The same for the artwork, and the rest that was created and bequeathed to The Church. All of Vatican City.

    Others might say, you have to give due credit to the usurpers. They've suceeded. It's their stuff now. And they can't take it with them. Instead, the field isn't about protecting treasures and inheritance. It's about saving souls, even if done in upper rooms, and back rooms, on the cliffs or in the catacombs, even in the face of centuries of Catholic contributions to society and the accuмulation of Church wealth. THEY'VE got it now, not Catholics.

    If seen in that way, as a Church that essentially needs to be physically rebuilt almost from scratch, where the great treasures, just as they were seized by Protestants historically, have again been taken away and probably for good, there will still remain legitimate disputes among those who have been shut out of those formerly Catholic institutions. Again, the Feenyites predate what was done even under Bugnini, never mind the subsequent Vatican II and his later works. And they were said to be excluded, for good reason. That would have to stand.

    And if one challenges the Roman Protestant, but finds compromise among Catholics with them, then that compromise must be criticized simply because one rightly condemns Roman Protestantism. It must be consistent.

    It's difficult to know what the future is for The Church. God has provided for many young families. And they make the effort to attend Catholic parishes and support them. But they are relatively few. The Roman Protestant 'community houses' still pack them in, just as the other Protestant 'communities' are able to count on large memberships. Catholics are a relatively small remnant. But that doesn't necessarily mean that numbers must take a priority when there are legitimate differences between those attempting to be faithful to Catholicism. Perhaps one can 'get dirty' in the world of politics. Many 'moral values' voters simply won't do that, to the chagrin of the 'professional pol'. But in religion, when it comes to the one, true Church founded by God, no less, one is either for or against. Voting 'dirty' isn't an options. And so there WILL be these disagreements, because there ought to be.


    Offline Trinity

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    « Reply #7 on: July 12, 2007, 10:16:25 AM »
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  • I don't understand, Dust.  Why ought there to be?  There was a time when "Rome has spoken" settled things and we all accepted it, on faith, if nothing else.  We had peace then, and surety.  We had a Shepherd.  I wonder if that is why heaven seems so quiet these days.  No Vicar.
    +RIP
    Please pray for the repose of her soul.


    Offline Clodovicus

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    « Reply #8 on: July 12, 2007, 11:58:39 AM »
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  • Quote from: Dawn
    For as long as I have known that there was a difference between the Novus Ordo Church and the Real Catholic Church there has been fighting between Trads. I think that as long as we are not united we can never expect anything to change in the Vatican II Church because they have no fear of us. We are are own worse enemies. Now, take for instance the wonderful editorials written by Mrs. Kathleen Plumb in the Four Marks. That I believe is what point she is making. As long as we have to spend all of our energies deciding who to side with, SSPV, CMR, Bishop Thuc, (RIP), Bishop Kelly on and on and on we will never have others take us serious. We act like we do not know who the leader is, and we do. It is Jesus Christ, Second Person of the Blessed Trinity. He started one beautiful and the only True Church that ran fairly well until 1962. So, there is the enemy, the "Robber Barons" of Vatican two and not each other.


    This is the leading problem, and is what my blog is deticated to: the unity of Traditional Catholicism. It would be a true ecuмenism for anyone voicing for unity within the traditional movement, but sadly any such voice would indeed be a voice crying in the wilderness, unheard because most of  the people and clerics in these are interested only in their own iterests and not the good of the Church, though they may say otherwise.
    They quarrel amongst themselves like Protestants, and just as unified. Were they really seeking the good of the faithful they should do all that they can to resolve the issues that exist in the Church rather than hurling anathemas at each other. We need something like what the Council of Florence was, a call for unity.

    Offline Trinity

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    « Reply #9 on: July 12, 2007, 12:04:46 PM »
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  • Maybe....that is what is happening here.  Too bad Stephanos was sacrificed before it happened.  I believe he would have been beneficial to this.
    +RIP
    Please pray for the repose of her soul.

    Offline Clodovicus

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    « Reply #10 on: July 12, 2007, 12:06:18 PM »
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  • Quote from: Trinity
    Maybe....that is what is happening here.  Too bad Stephanos was sacrificed before it happened.  I believe he would have been beneficial to this.


    Indeed, we took a heavy loss when we lost him.