Author Topic: To what extent do we obey authority? (Read 1435 times)

InfiniteFaith · « **on:** August 13, 2013, 05:46:36 PM »

I ran across some versus in Scripture...

http://www.openbible.info/topics/obeying_authority

On one hand it seems to say that we should obey all authorities that have been appointed over us. On the other hand it says the we should obey God and not men. I'm not sure what to think. Who should we obey and when? If a priest commands me to get in my car and go up to 7 eleven and buy him some ice cream am I morally obligated to obey his command?

Also, we know that one day the Antichrist will come. He will rule over the entire earth. Logically, I would think we should not obey him and that he was not appointed by God. Yet scripture seems to indicate that all rulers/authorities are appointed by God.

InfiniteFaith · « **Reply #1 on:** August 14, 2013, 01:10:33 AM »

Sorry. I think I figured it out. We are supposed to obey governing authorities up until the point where the governing authority's demands conflict with the will of God. In which case, we must choose to obey God over the governing authority.

poche · « **Reply #2 on:** August 14, 2013, 10:56:46 PM »

We obedience to all legitimate authority in as much as we are not ordered by them to disobey the law of God.

InfiniteFaith · « **Reply #3 on:** August 14, 2013, 11:31:22 PM »

Quote from: poche

We obedience to all legitimate authority in as much as we are not ordered by them to disobey the law of God.

So if your priest told you to go up to the store to buy him a snickers bar you are morally obligated to do so?

poche · « **Reply #4 on:** August 15, 2013, 12:49:26 AM »

Quote from: InfiniteFaith

Quote from: poche
We obedience to all legitimate authority in as much as we are not ordered by them to disobey the law of God.

So if your priest told you to go up to the store to buy him a snickers bar you are morally obligated to do so?

Do you owe him that level of obedience?

InfiniteFaith · « **Reply #5 on:** August 15, 2013, 12:56:56 AM »

Quote from: poche

Quote from: InfiniteFaith
Quote from: poche
We obedience to all legitimate authority in as much as we are not ordered by them to disobey the law of God.

So if your priest told you to go up to the store to buy him a snickers bar you are morally obligated to do so?

Do you owe him that level of obedience?

I'm not really sure. Probably not, but I'm just trying to get to the bottom of what levels of authority we are supposed to obey. I imagine we should obey laws established by our government. The Catholic Church has some authority over Catholics. One example would be that it can (key word being "can") coerce people back into the Church if they are trying to leave.

Lighthouse · « **Reply #6 on:** August 15, 2013, 12:57:03 AM »

Quote

I ran across some versus in Scripture...

Uh-huh, that's what Martin Luther said. The teaching authority is the Church. Catholics that start with reading Scripture need to be very, very cautious.

InfiniteFaith · « **Reply #7 on:** August 15, 2013, 12:57:56 AM »

Quote from: Lighthouse

Quote
I ran across some versus in Scripture...

Uh-huh, that's what Martin Luther said. The teaching authority is the Church. Catholics that start with reading Scripture need to be very, very cautious.

Agreed.

poche · « **Reply #8 on:** August 15, 2013, 01:24:21 AM »

Quote from: Lighthouse

Quote
I ran across some versus in Scripture...

Uh-huh, that's what Martin Luther said. The teaching authority is the Church. Catholics that start with reading Scripture need to be very, very cautious.

When I use scripture, I use it to demonstrate the truth of the Catholic Church.

poche · « **Reply #9 on:** August 15, 2013, 02:48:47 AM »

Quote from: Lighthouse

Quote
I ran across some versus in Scripture...

Uh-huh, that's what Martin Luther said. The teaching authority is the Church. Catholics that start with reading Scripture need to be very, very cautious.

I use the scripture to explain the truth of teh Catholic Faith.

DonnaMarie · « **Reply #10 on:** September 25, 2013, 03:28:12 PM »

Having been abused and scared by authority I have a big problem with it.
ANY authority, not just priests.

DM

InfiniteFaith · « **Reply #11 on:** September 25, 2013, 03:54:54 PM »

Quote from: DonnaMarie

Having been abused and scared by authority I have a big problem with it.
ANY authority, not just priests.

DM

Yeah I feel your pain. Perhaps this would warrant disobedience to authority.

Matthew · « **Reply #12 on:** September 25, 2013, 03:55:38 PM »

All authority comes from God.

When authority begins to be used against God's cause (to foster sin, error, heresy, etc.) then it MUST be opposed, under pain of sin.

There is an obedience that is gravely sinful.

When a Catholic priest went along with Vatican II, assuming he had ANY qualms of conscience doing so, he sinned mortally by forbidding parishioners to kneel for communion, allowing altar girls to serve in the sanctuary, etc. Any cooperation he had in the destruction of the Church and the Faith of his congregation he will have to answer to God for -- even if he was "just following orders". That won't get you off the hook at the Judgement Seat.

If your father or mother told you to commit a sin, you cannot obey.

If the government ordered you to only have 2 children (and then to contracept/abort after that), you would have to rebel.

That doesn't mean we must become vigilantes and commit various crimes (murder, arson) in the cause of "justice". We must allow protestant churches to stand un-burnt for the sake of the common good, especially since protestants make up such a large part of the population in America. But ideally, in a Catholic country, heresy would be kept in check and opposed by the government itself.

InfiniteFaith · « **Reply #13 on:** September 25, 2013, 04:02:28 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

All authority comes from God.

When authority begins to be used against God's cause (to foster sin, error, heresy, etc.) then it MUST be opposed, under pain of sin.

There is an obedience that is gravely sinful.

When a Catholic priest went along with Vatican II, assuming he had ANY qualms of conscience doing so, he sinned mortally by forbidding parishioners to kneel for communion, allowing altar girls to serve in the sanctuary, etc. Any cooperation he had in the destruction of the Church and the Faith of his congregation he will have to answer to God for -- even if he was "just following orders". That won't get you off the hook at the Judgement Seat.

If your father or mother told you to commit a sin, you cannot obey.

If the government ordered you to only have 2 children (and then to contracept/abort after that), you would have to rebel.

That doesn't mean we must become vigilantes and commit various crimes (murder, arson) in the cause of "justice". We must allow protestant churches to stand un-burnt for the sake of the common good, especially since protestants make up such a large part of the population in America. But ideally, in a Catholic country, heresy would be kept in check and opposed by the government itself.

Well said. I believe that cινιℓ ωαr and revolution can be promoted by God as long as it is done correctly.

DonnaMarie · « **Reply #14 on:** September 25, 2013, 04:15:15 PM »

I have no idea what Matthew just said. Sorry.

DM