The article seemed primarily concerned with building numbers at the TLM without concern about the source, whereas your post is focused more on converting non-Catholics.

The reality is that most new TLM attendees are already (or once were) Catholic. Certainly there are exceptions, but I think most Trads are inclined to focus their efforts on N.O. Catholics. Reaching out to the world at large is great too, but don't discredit the work of those educating fellow Catholics who have been led astray by the Novus Ordo.

The article seemed primarily concerned with building numbers at the TLM without concern about the source, whereas your post is focused more on converting non-Catholics.

The reality is that most new TLM attendees are already (or once were) Catholic. Certainly there are exceptions, but I think most Trads are inclined to focus their efforts on N.O. Catholics. Reaching out to the world at large is great too, but don't discredit the work of those educating fellow Catholics who have been led astray by the Novus Ordo.

True.  The priest does seem focused on numbers, as you make me think about this.  

And yes, Trads do seem focused on evangelizing the people who already have a modicuм of knowledge of the Faith.  

I wonder, how would we evangelize people who are entirely non-Catholic?  

I don't disagree that we should evangelize.  But the article is a self-serving conciliarist propaganda ploy setting them up to say, "Well--we gave the TLM a shot.  But the demand just wasn't there," as they proceed put tradition back in the broom closet.  Getting the numbers to prevent that is as realistic as the school he referenced raising another $1M.  What a disgrace that the true Mass is relegated to a numbers/popularity game.


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I DO NOT have the esteemed editor of the HirschieFiles on ignore--life is too short to pass up such amusement.

Evangelization in this climate is nearly impossible ... barring the grace of God alone.

Why?

"You're not Catholic?  Well, what distinguishes Catholicism from the Protestants is the Catholic Magisterium and the papacy. [apologetics establishing why this is important] ... But, oh, by the way, you must ignore the Magisterium and the pope, refuse submission to him, and become a TRADITIONAL Catholic."

Good luck with that.  Our apologetics is undermined from the getgo.

This is very true.  The papacy is what kept me Catholic in my youth as I began to unwind the farce of conciliardom and was, in fact, the centerpoint of many evangelization discussions I've had with prots over the years.  It's hard enough sorting through the chaos of this crisis as one from hundreds of years of Catholic ancestry.  Imagine explaining it to a prot and making it make sense to him.


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I DO NOT have the esteemed editor of the HirschieFiles on ignore--life is too short to pass up such amusement.

Evangelization in this climate is nearly impossible ... barring the grace of God alone.

Why?

"You're not Catholic?  Well, what distinguishes Catholicism from the Protestants is the Catholic Magisterium and the papacy. [apologetics establishing why this is important] ... But, oh, by the way, you must ignore the Magisterium and the pope, refuse submission to him, and become a TRADITIONAL Catholic."

Good luck with that.  Our apologetics is undermined from the getgo.

This, this, this. I am a former Protestant and have many Protestant friends whom I try to evangelize, I also try to reach Protestants through the internet. The current post-Conciliar mess is the biggest obstacle in evangelization - even though I am very closely interested in Catholic apologetics and I am fairly confident about my knowledge how to present the Biblical and historical evidence for the Eucharist, Marian dogmas, Papacy, Catholic doctrine of justification, Purgatory etc., the topic of current liberalism in the Church usually comes up in the conversations sooner or later. There are knowledgeable Protestants who realize what is going on in Vatican right now, and who are aware at least of the abomination of Assisi meetings, kissing of the Quran by John Paul II and religious indifferentism which the Conciliar Church embraces. As you say, explaining that they need to submit to the Papacy but ignore the current Magisterium and become Traditionalists is extremely hard. We need to pray for conversions more than ever.  

CAF promotes religious indifferentism due to error having equal rights to that of truth. But that's how it has to be, I think, with the format of allowing non-Catholics to have their own religious beliefs which are to be respected on the forum. The progressive Catholics get to have an equal say, too. Everyone's subjective views are to be treated with charity, even if they are very wrong. I received an infraction for writing a post that said...."Either a Catholic is with Jesus, or with Cardinal Kasper. There is no in-between." (regarding the recent synod).

I don't think that CAF or Mark Shea show an accurate picture of Catholicism. Those who convert through their efforts aren't being given a true picture of the Catholic faith. On the other hand, I have to wonder about how many non-Catholics these days are interested in the true Catholic faith....the one where we have to believe in everything that the Church teaches, because it's not an easy faith to believe or to live in a secular culture.

However, I do see new people attend the FSSP Mass, and I'm too shy to reach out to them before going into Mass. And no one else does either. I do care about the Novus Ordo Caths who make their way to the TLM, but if we don't show that we care by at least saying hello and welcoming them, they may only attend a few times, and then not come back.

Quote from: Ladislaus

Evangelization in this climate is nearly impossible ... barring the grace of God alone.

Why?

"You're not Catholic?  Well, what distinguishes Catholicism from the Protestants is the Catholic Magisterium and the papacy. [apologetics establishing why this is important] ... But, oh, by the way, you must ignore the Magisterium and the pope, refuse submission to him, and become a TRADITIONAL Catholic."

Good luck with that.  Our apologetics is undermined from the getgo.

This is the issue.

Evangelisation comes from the pope.

Frank the Fraud on Evangelization:  "Proselytizing is solemn nonsense."