Author Topic: ANNULMENTS  (Read 2098 times)

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Offline MyrnaM

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ANNULMENTS
« on: July 25, 2011, 07:22:24 PM »
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  • The subject of annulments came up on another thread, got me wondering if SSPX considers Vatican II annulments legal in the eyes of God.  Prior to Vatican II there were only a few reasons for an annulment, now its just pay the fine, it seems.

    For the most part unless the couple falls into the few reasons for a true annulment, CMRI does not recognize them from Vatican II.  

    Anyone have any insights?

    Offline s2srea

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    ANNULMENTS
    « Reply #1 on: July 25, 2011, 07:52:27 PM »
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  • I believe +Williamson, on an interview with the gentleman from theTrue Restoration Blog, stated that Traditionalist priests and bishops can not invoke "epikeia", in the case of annulments.

    "Epikeia" is what gives trad priests the right to celebrate mass with out the blessing of Rome. Here's a definition I found of it: The principle in ethics that a law can be broken to achieve a greater good.

    I'm sure others can expound on this.


    Offline Sigismund

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    ANNULMENTS
    « Reply #2 on: July 25, 2011, 08:20:18 PM »
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  • It seems to me that if the SSPX were to grant annulments, they would have to claim jurisdiction.  They don't do this as far as I know.  It would seem to me to be a clearly schismatic act if they did.
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

    Offline LordPhan

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    ANNULMENTS
    « Reply #3 on: July 25, 2011, 09:41:00 PM »
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  • Quote
    Why is it that the priests of the Society do not send faithful who have grounds of annulment to the local diocesan tribunal?

    Not infrequently the priests of the Society are contacted by faithful who have been previously married, but whose marriage failed. They will sometimes present convincing evidence of the nullity of their previous marriage, such as the refusal of children on the part of one or both parties. They are there placed in a difficult predicament:

    On the one hand the Society does not have jurisdiction to establish tribunals that could give a certain judgment in such a case;

    On the other hand, the diocesan tribunals do not grant certitude either, for even when there are solid potential grounds to truly question the validity of the marriage, they will always resort to the easy grounds of "lack of due discretion," provided for in the 1983 Code of Canon Law, canon 1095, §2.

    Consequently, if a traditional priest were to send his faithful to a diocesan tribunal, he would effectively condemn them to uncertainty, to never knowing for sure their marriage status. However, the whole purpose of an annulment tribunal is to establish moral certitude, on the basis of which a person can act. A tribunal that refuses to do this does not perform its duty and is worthless. The modernist tribunals almost always consider exclusively psychological reasons, such as lack of maturity, that make the marriage imprudent. They call this "lack of due discretion." However, this in no way proves that the marriage did not happen, and that the vows were without any object, as when one of the couple refuses true consent. Consequently, the decision of the modernist tribunals gives no certitude at all, and certainly does not give the person the ability to act as if he or she were not married and to enter into another marriage. This is why the Society of St. Pius X refuses to marry people who have decrees of nullity from modernist tribunals.

    The faithful who have an upright intention, who are seeking true certitude, and who would never dream of entering sacrilegiously into a subsequent doubtful marriage, consequently come to the Society asking us to resolve their doubt. Our priests know full well that it is not because there seems to be some good grounds that the marriage can be considered as null and void. It takes a tribunal to make such a declaration, after due consideration, following all the norms of canon law. The salvation of souls requires that the Society have such tribunals, and consequently the Church supplies jurisdiction for such judgments, as it does for marriages themselves.

    Sometimes it is objected that the Society should study the case first, and then send it to a diocesan tribunal. The problem is that simply studying the case will not obtain the required moral certitude. It is only a canonical judgment, following the norms of marriage tribunals that can do this. We can only study it by erecting tribunals to treat these cases. Any other way of studying them would be misleading, unjust and would perpetrate the uncertainty.

    Another reason why Society priests refuse to refer their faithful to the Novus Ordo tribunals is to avoid confusion and scandal for the weak. How can the faithful be expected to accept our firm rulings, protecting the sanctity and indissolubility of marriage, if we were to send our faithful to tribunals who do not at all, in practice, accept them? Human nature is such that they will listen only to the answer they want to hear. It is only years later, after entering into a second, and possibly invalid second marriage, that they will have to grapple with their compromised conscience. It would be a total contradiction of all that we are doing to restore all things in Christ and to save souls, if we were to do this. The continued worsening of the crisis in the Church has made it more necessary than ever before for us to be very firm on this point.  [Answered by Fr. Peter R. Scott]

    Offline Lighthouse

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    ANNULMENTS
    « Reply #4 on: July 25, 2011, 09:53:13 PM »
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  • So, am I to infer from the above that the Society does set up such tribunals, and does issue annulments to those that seek them?


    Offline LordPhan

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    « Reply #5 on: July 25, 2011, 09:55:45 PM »
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  • Quote from: Lighthouse
    So, am I to infer from the above that the Society does set up such tribunals, and does issue annulments to those that seek them?


    I don't know I being single all my life would have had no reason to ask, and I infer nothing in my post I just posted a question and answer from the angelus that related to the question posed in this thread.

    If you want a real answer I suggest you goto www.sspx.org click on chapels find a priory near you and phone them :)

    Offline Lighthouse

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    ANNULMENTS
    « Reply #6 on: July 25, 2011, 10:17:10 PM »
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  • Quote from: LordPhan
    Quote from: Lighthouse
    So, am I to infer from the above that the Society does set up such tribunals, and does issue annulments to those that seek them?


    I don't know I being single all my life would have had no reason to ask, and I infer nothing in my post I just posted a question and answer from the angelus that related to the question posed in this thread.

    If you want a real answer I suggest you goto www.sspx.org click on chapels find a priory near you and phone them :)


    Well, I would do just that, but the local SSPX church folded its tents, and wandered off into the desert, 25 miles or so south of here. They don't seem to have set up a new website, or announced their existence to the rest of the world, so I assume they wish to be left in peace.

    Don't forget that we infer, you imply.  Hope this helps.

     :kick-can:

    Offline Pyrrhos

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    ANNULMENTS
    « Reply #7 on: July 26, 2011, 04:07:42 PM »
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  • Well, I thought it is very much known that the SSPX (at least used to!) sets up "marriage tribunals". They might claim that they are passing "moral judgments", not actual annulments.

    From a theological or juridicial aspect, this is of course extremely difficult matter, may one be SSPX or sede.
    If you are a theologian, you truly pray, and if you truly pray, you are a theologian. - Evagrius Ponticus


    Offline Sigismund

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    « Reply #8 on: July 26, 2011, 05:58:47 PM »
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  • If they do set up "tribunals"  I don't see how they are not in schism.  This is not a matter that can be covered by some argument for supplied jurisdiction in an emergency.  This seems to be to be an attempt at exercising ordinary jurisdiction, something SSPX clergy absolutely cannot do.
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

    Offline Telesphorus

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    ANNULMENTS
    « Reply #9 on: September 22, 2011, 05:12:50 PM »
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  • The SSPX doesn't "disturb" people who've had diocesan annulment and who have subsequently remarried.  So there are probably many bigamists attending trad masses.

    Offline stevusmagnus

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    ANNULMENTS
    « Reply #10 on: September 22, 2011, 05:17:40 PM »
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  • http://www.sspx.org/miscellaneous/canonical/Canonical_Commission/questions_re_canonical_commission.htm

    Quote
    How can the Society’s Canonical Commission grant valid annulments, and if it were to try to do so, would not this be a schismatic act?

    Clearly marriage is not just an individual matter or sacrament. It is a social act instituted for the good of society and for the good of the Church. That is why the Church has the right to legislate and why marriages need to be public facts. This is also why an annulment can only be granted by a tribunal with jurisdiction from the Church, in order that the subsequent marriage be a public, juridical and unquestionable fact.

    It would seem to follow from this that our tribunals could not grant annulments, for they do not have jurisdiction, and that the public juridical nature of the subsequent marriage could be questioned. What are we to do then? It is manifestly clear that we cannot refer the faithful to Novus Ordo tribunals, for they will almost always be given a decision in favor of an annulment, and that generally on the basis of Canon 1095, 3 which is thoroughly personalist and liberal and states that whoever is not able to understand and assume all the obligations of marriage (and how many young people are really able to do that when they are married?), cannot enter into a valid marriage. The marriage is valid if the couple mature together and the marriage succeeds. If not, it is invalid.

    The problem is that the vast majority of people who receive such a judgment are unwilling to hear anything to the contrary. Once told by the Novus Ordo that they are not married, they are unwilling to accept our judgment or analysis of the case. Consequently, they enter into a putative marriage, which is really an adulterous union. To send the faithful to the modernist tribunals is to participate in this sacrilege.

    What are we to do then? Nothing at all? Refuse them the Sacrament of Matrimony, which they have not yet received? Tell them that they have no choice but to live in sin, regardless of how good a case for an annulment they might have? The zeal for the salvation of souls forbids such a hard-hearted attitude to those who have already suffered a great deal and who desire the consolation of their religion.

    The answer is contained in the principle given by Archbishop Lefebvre at the beginning of the Ordonnances:

    Inasmuch as the present Roman authorities are imbued with ecumenism and modernism, and as their decisions and the new laws are in their ensemble influenced by these false principles, we must provide authorities to supply for these defects, which authorities will adhere to Catholic principles of Catholic Tradition and of Catholic law. This is the only way to remain faithful to Our Lord Jesus Christ... (January 15, 1991).

    Marriage tribunals are one of these institutions that we are obliged to erect for the salvation of souls, given the failure of the modernist hierarchy to fill these needs of souls. The marriage tribunal, as its principal objective, has to establish, with moral certitude, that two persons are free to marry. If we have the right to perform marriages (and hence the supplied jurisdiction), then it follows that we have right to determine with certitude who is free to marry. On occasion, this will necessitate the study of the validity of a previous marriage, due either to defect of canonical form, or defect of intention, or some other prerequisite for a valid marriage.

    If it can be established, with moral certitude, that any Catholic tribunal would accept, from a study of the documents, that a marriage is and always was null and void, then a person is morally free to remarry. It is true that he is not juridically free in the most technical sense, being declared as such by a tribunal having jurisdiction. But since it is morally impossible to have recourse to the Novus Ordo tribunals, it is likewise morally impossible to obtain such a juridical freedom. Hence our duty to intervene, for the salvation of souls. The Society’s marriage annulment tribunal is thus supplied with jurisdiction in each particular case, both to make a statement of moral certitude for the good of souls (i.e., there never was a marriage in the first place), and to give a decree stating this fact.

    Although this decree might lack the technical force of law, because of the fact that the Society’s tribunals do not have a regular canonical erection, it will nevertheless be a statement having authority amongst traditional Catholics, and one which would have authority amongst all Catholics, should the crisis in the Church come to an end. Furthermore, it will guarantee the validity of any subsequent marriages. For this validity does not depend upon the legal status of the decree. The reason for this is that a prior marriage is only a diriment impediment to marriage, when it is truly valid. A second marriage, entered into before the certitude of nullity of the first marriage has been established by authoritative judgment, is illicit but not invalid, presuming that it is later established that the first marriage was indeed null and void (cf. canons 1069, °2 & 1987 of the 1917 Code and canons 1085, °2 & 1684, °1 of the 1983 Code). It follows from this that, a second marriage is certainly valid when the certitude of nullity IS established by an authoritative judgment, even though such a judgment might lack the due legal form. Furthermore, given the present circumstances in the Church, a subsequent marriage is not only valid. It is also licit.


     

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