"This alone is reason enough to applaud this movie.  Hollywood is so lacking in strong, chaste, real men.  In most movies such a character would be considered less than manly for not trying to bag the woman himself."

I would say that is a definite point in the movie's favour.  But, again, the real question is how does the movie treat the other sin(s) present?

For instance, what point does the movie make re: fornication?  What point does the movie make re: a woman "choosing" not to murder?

"Do you like anything?"

Argumentam ad hominem, Miss Fluffy.

But, since you asked, I like you.  You seem kind of nice.

Now, what does this have to do with the merits or demerits of this particular film?

"And why is that I see only women arguing this so vociferously? Not a coincidence."

(Holy smokes...  I could watch this guy all day.)

I'm tapping out.  Battle hand-over, Mike.

Quote from: gilbertgea

But, since you asked, I like you.  You seem kind of nice.

Well, that was unexpected. :faint:  
Thanks, I like you too Gilbert.

Quote from: gilbertgea

Now, what does this have to do with the merits or demerits of this particular film?

Well, it does sound like the woman in the film is a weak character.  But sounds true to life as well.  How many weak catholic women are out there who haven't been protected by their fathers, and make unimaginable decisions in defiance of God.  I'm sure that in real life there are plenty of Catholic women out there excommunicating themselves in such a fashion.  In life there are people who have fallen hard, and there are those messengers who try to bring them back out of the darkness.  If they're lucky.  It sounds like this film reflects that.  Of course, I'll have to watch it myself if I'm going to make an accurate critique.  Perhaps next week.

Ok, good points. But what does not having good fathers have to do with making a Catholic movie of a woman who decides at the last moment not to kill her child?

Sin is in the intent and the will. If I decide to kill someone, but I elect not to because of societal reasons it's not moral or laudable, and yes still sinful. Our Lord says lusting over someone or holding hatred is the same as adultery and murder without doing it.

While the story is true to life and has message which is very questionable it should be raised up to some mythological status of greatness.

Here's the plot:
She CHOOSES to fornicate
She chooses to go on a late night walk with this guy on a beach which is gravely sinful occasion
In the end she doesn't kill someone

That's not a Catholic movie at all.

Here's the plot:
She CHOOSES to fornicate
She chooses to go on a late night walk with this guy on a beach which is gravely sinful occasion
In the end she doesn't kill someone

That's not a Catholic movie at all.

You're only mentioning one character in the film.  There are other characters as well.  Isn't being Catholic all about helping God gather His lost sheep?

Hopefully the first person to see the movie will report back here with a good, objective Catholic critique of the film.

I know it seems like some of us are being "picky" but we're just trying to tell it like it is.

Now it's refreshing these days to see a movie with ANY KIND of moral plot, because so many movies/TV shows are utter garbage when illuminated with the candle of the Faith.

I just want to remind us of our true birthright -- we shouldn't be content with scraps, or "bones" they throw us Catholics. They did the same thing in the early days of Hollywood with movies like "Going My Way", "The Bells of St. Mary's", etc. wherein are portrayed "50's priests" who were basically the reason we have the Novus Ordo Mass today.

The Catholics were a great force back then, with the Legion of Decency, etc. and Hollywood had to keep the Catholics "happy". If it weren't for the Catholics giving Hollywood "the nod", they wouldn't have been NEARLY as lucrative or successful. But they bought our loyalty with a few apparently-Catholic (but with subtle problems) movies. So even the BONES they threw us helped pursue their goals.

But say there was NOTHING wrong with them -- the fact remains that Catholics went out and bought TVs, bought the products advertised there, etc. or Hollywood would still be a few warehouses in California. The moguls of Hollywood weren't stupid -- they bided their time, and were patient. Now Catholics are being corrupted by the Tube about as bad as anyone else.

Matthew

No, I mentioned how the guy goes for a walk with her on a beach at night, which is a gravely sinful act.
 

You throw around words like "gravely sinful" so gratuitously.  If one is not placed in an occasion of sin by spending time alone with a member of the opposite sex, then it is not sinful.  A beach is a public place, and hardly an occasion for most regular people.  Perhaps perverts might be tempted to jump into the bushes behind the dunes, but most regular people would not be put in a near occasion on the beach.  Do you have some strange belief that given any opportunity, men and women left alone together will jump into eachother's pants?  How did you get to know your wife?

Quote from: MichaelSolimanto

No, I mentioned how the guy goes for a walk with her on a beach at night, which is a gravely sinful act.
 

You throw around words like "gravely sinful" so gratuitously.  If one is not placed in an occasion of sin by spending time alone with a member of the opposite sex, then it is not sinful.  A beach is a public place, and hardly an occasion for most regular people.  Perhaps perverts might be tempted to jump into the bushes behind the dunes, but most regular people would not be put in a near occasion on the beach.  Do you have some strange belief that given any opportunity, men and women left alone together will jump into eachother's pants?  How did you get to know your wife?

Gratuitously: Given or granted without return or recompense; unearned. I have not done that. You may argue the point, but it was not gratuitous. You should learn moral theology before you start arguing with someone otherwise you don't know what you are talking about, and you don't know what you are talking about. I don't mean that in a cold and callous way, just objectively.

It was taught, from the beginning of God creating a covenant with Abraham, that there shall be chaperoning of women and men until married, and if not they shall be in public. Being alone on a beach is neither. Being alone with a woman can be allowed as a proximate occasion of sin if it is necessary (gynecologist, father with daughter, etc.) but if it is not necessary it is always sinful.

As St. Paul teaches us that if any man thinks they can stand, take heed lest they fall. It's a reminder that our chastity is based on God, not on our own efforts. When you tempt God and think you can stand watch out, because after you fall you will see the wisdom in such Divine Revelation.

Oh, and Trinity, I was talking about walking alone with a man on the beach, not walking on the beach. I think even someone like yourself could understand that.