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Author Topic: Relations between TIA and TFP  (Read 1456 times)

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Re: Relations between TIA and TFP
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2019, 08:33:13 PM »
I loved many of the Catholic legends and stories that are told on the TIA website. They are very inspirational. I must have read so many of them when I was a new convert. Food for the soul. I hope they are good people. Like that the Cross was made of a dogwood tree.

https://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/h034rpLegendDogwood.htm

Re: Relations between TIA and TFP
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2019, 09:42:56 PM »
We are well aware of the story told by TIA of their claimed separation from TFP. We have read the docuмents presented by Atila to support this claim.
https://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/Internet_Files/F142_Defense_Eng.pdf

Problem One:
Why did Atila fight so hard to remain attached to TFP?
Plinio Correa de Oliveira’s group, TFP, was condemned by the Catholic Church in Brazil and Venezuala.
       "In its 23rd General Assembly, April 10 to 19, 1985, the Bishops approved in plenary session a notice regarding the TFP. It therefore has all the official character of an Assembly of the Bishops of Brazil in Conference, and not simply a press release. The notice reads as follows: "Its esoteric character, religious fanaticism, the cult given to the personality of its founder and head, the abusive use of the name of Most Holy Mary, according to circulated information, cannot in any way merit the approval of the Church. "We lament the difficulties flowing from a civil society which presents itself as a Catholic religious entity, without a tie to the legitimate pastors.
        "This being the case, the Bishops of Brazil exhort Catholics not to enroll in the TFP, and not to collaborate with it.
        "The above stated was signed by +Dom Raymundo Damasceno Asas, Secretary-General of the Conference on National Bishops of Brazil on April 23, 1997."
        Immaculate Heart Messenger, ed. Father Robert J. Fox. January - March 1998 edition p. 29.
  
       In 1984 the local T.F.P. branch was outlawed in Venezuela, accused by a special parliamentary commission of being a "cult ... which warps the minds of young people, turns its members into fanatics and brainwashes them".
        Osservatore Romano, July 7, 1985, p. 12, n. 408, weekly Spanish edition quoted in Tradizione Famiglia Proprietà: Associazione cattolica o sètta millenarista?, Rimini 1996, frontispiece
        http://www.unitypublishing.com/Apparitions/TFP-AmericaNeedsFatima.htm

   Plinio Correa de Oliveira’s group, TFP, was condemned by the civil authorities in Brazil. This was reported by investigator Thomas Case in Fidelity, the monthly organ of the highly conservative Ultra-Montanists in its May 1989 issue.
https://ephesians511blog.com/2013/09/28/america-needs-fatima-a-cult-using-the-fatima-name/
          
        TFP had been repeatedly accused by the Brazilian authorities of “inducement to flight, reckless transfer, and concealment of minors”–and this despite TFP’s own slavish devotion to the military regime.
        Young men were alleged to have been deceitfully recruited by TFP, to be trained in their academies as “warrior monks” for the cause.
        According to the Brazilian government, TFP sought to obtain legal guardianship over the minor children of parents dedicated to TFP and then turned their sons against both them and the mainstream church, regarded by TFP loyalists as an institutional fraud.


Problem Two:
Why did TIA wait over 20 years to post the purported letter from TFP?  It was supposedly written in 1997, but not made available to the public until after 2017.

TIA’s story is:
“In January 2017, TIA hosted an Event (sic) celebrating the publishing in English of the 11-volume Collection Eli. Eli Lamma Sabacthani? by Atila Sinke Guimarães. . .”

At that event, those present raised questions regarding “the expulsion of Atila from the TFP” and “insisted that a translation of it to English should be available to the public.”  

In response to those questions, Marian Horvat began to translate the supposed docuмent from Portuguese to English.

Problem Three:
For a letter purportedly from a hostile presient of the TFP organization from which Atila is, supposedly being cut off, it is surprisingly full of praise for Atila:

This is from:
“The Letter of the President of the TFP to Atila Sinke Guimarães, November 20, 1997
. . .  Very dear Mr. Atila, because of your elevation of sights, your gifts of intelligence, your energy and, above all, the many graces that Our Lady has poured over you, you have a great role to carry out in the  Counter-Revolution  and  in  the  TFP. . . I take leave with inalterable esteem.”

Thats. Just. Odd.

All I could think of when reading this is how close this describes the relationship between fr. Pfeiffer, pablo and their followers.


Re: Relations between TIA and TFP
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2019, 02:17:39 PM »
I loved many of the Catholic legends and stories that are told on the TIA website. They are very inspirational. I must have read so many of them when I was a new convert. Food for the soul. I hope they are good people. Like that the Cross was made of a dogwood tree.

Are you saying that you are willing to overlook the heresy of Atila (in saying God Almighty Creator of the Universe is less important than Plinio) because you like reading the sweetness mixed in with the poison?

What is your response to this statement of Atila on his own TIA website?

The great Moses with his burning bush on the top of Sinai does not make me jealous. For if he were there with God for 40 days, I have been with Dr. Plinio for 33 years. And in this relationship I see,  perhaps,  more of the divine presence than he before the sacred bush. And I guard the hope that I still may win the dispute with this  Prophet when I shall pass from this exile to the Fatherland.

Re: Relations between TIA and TFP
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2019, 06:03:48 PM »
Are you saying that you are willing to overlook the heresy of Atila (in saying God Almighty Creator of the Universe is less important than Plinio) because you like reading the sweetness mixed in with the poison?

What is your response to this statement of Atila on his own TIA website?

The great Moses with his burning bush on the top of Sinai does not make me jealous. For if he were there with God for 40 days, I have been with Dr. Plinio for 33 years. And in this relationship I see,  perhaps,  more of the divine presence than he before the sacred bush. And I guard the hope that I still may win the dispute with this  Prophet when I shall pass from this exile to the Fatherland.
What? No response?