Author Topic: The Proper Response to Ad-Hominem Attacks (Read 1866 times)

Last Tradhican · « **on:** June 02, 2016, 09:12:42 AM »

A person that is truly knowledgeable on a subject, can never be offended by the arguments of others who are comparatively speaking"amateurs" on that subject.

Fools rush in where wise men fear to go. A wise man does not get offended by the insults and arguments of a child, a fool.

The proper response to an ad-hominem attack is no response at all, and especially no retaliatory ad-hominem.

I see here adult men and even priests engaging in self defense ad-hominem attacks and diploma waving, this is not good sign, it tells me the so-called "expert" is being fazed by an amateur. It tells me that the "expert" does not altogether believe what he is teaching.

Let's learn from our mistakes.

( One more item as an aside for the men of CI:

Let the ladies debate among themselves, and if there is no other lady to respond to them, just correct them and move on. Women have no place teaching men, and knowledgeable men, if they were truly knowledgeable, would not debate with women. )

Mark 79 · « **Reply #1 on:** June 02, 2016, 09:24:23 AM »

Quote from: Last Tradhican

…The proper response to an ad-hominem attack is no response at all, and especially no retaliatory ad-hominem. …

A proper response is to attack the argument. "No response at all" is not appropriate when defending the truths of the Faith.

I think this is a decent summary of the frequently seen debate deceits and errors of logic:

http://www.csun.edu/%7Edgw61315/fallacies.html#The%20list%20of%20logical%20fallacies

Mark 79 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 02, 2016, 09:36:37 AM »

I very much enjoyed this video of the late Dr. Tony Martin. In it he discusses more than just errors of logic, but such typically Jєωιѕн debate tactics such as outright lying, character assassination, and intimidation:

From http://judaism.is/torah-encourages-lies.html :

The late Dr. Martin’s experience is instructive. In this video he chronicles with good humor the types of deceit and bully tactics that he experienced as a historian revealing the sordid and concealed history of Jєωιѕн slave traders. He experienced what is experienced by everyone who confronts Jєωιѕн myths and deceits:

• misdirection, attempting to conceal that malefactors and criminals are Jєωs (“Portuguese” slavers, “Russian” mafia, Young “Turks,” etc.),
• reliance on lies,
• distraction from facts by name-calling, invidious nicknames,
• attempts to destroy opponents’ livelihood and professional reputation,
• dirty tricks,
• presumptuousness,
• side-stepping actual issues, introducing “red herrings” and “straw men,”
• use of gentile quislings, “Uncle Toms,” shabbos goyim,
• leveraging connections with persons of influence, landlords, employers, creditors, etc.,
• parroting Jєωιѕн talking points across the broad expanse of Jєωιѕн-owned media,
• unseemly histrionics,
• insinuating self-destructive advice through pretended friends,
• hate mail, threats, actual violence

His advice?

• stick to the truthful facts
• ignore the ad hominem attacks, but use the attacks as opportunities to spread the truth
• develop independent media
• develop support systems
• take the battle to the enemy, don’t fold

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #3 on:** June 02, 2016, 09:44:10 AM »

Quote from: Mark 79

Quote from: Last Tradhican
…The proper response to an ad-hominem attack is no response at all, and especially no retaliatory ad-hominem. …

A proper response is to attack the argument. "No response at all" is not appropriate when defending the truths of the Faith.

I think this is a decent summary of the frequently seen debate deceits and errors of logic:

http://www.csun.edu/%7Edgw61315/fallacies.html#The%20list%20of%20logical%20fallacies

The subject is "The Proper Response to an Ad-Hominem Attack", an ad-hominem attack has no argument, it is just an attack upon the character of the expert, therefore, it receives no response.

Of course, "No response at all" is not appropriate when defending the truths of the Faith, however, we are not talking here about defending the truths of the Faith, but of defending oneself from ad-hominem attacks.

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #4 on:** June 02, 2016, 09:51:55 AM »

Quote from: Mark 79

I very much enjoyed this video of the late Dr. Tony Martin. In it he discusses more than just errors of logic, but such typically Jєωιѕн debate tactics such as outright lying, character assassination, and intimidation:

I will read and watch everything tonight, thanks for the links. Dr. Martin appears to be (I know nothing about him, I'm only going by what you say) an example of a man who truly knows his subject, and lives and acts towards others as their superior, never flustered by the arguments of his lessors (on the subject).

(on the subject): I've known many experts that could not walk and chew gum at the same time, however, on their subject, they were genius.

OHCA · « **Reply #5 on:** June 02, 2016, 11:33:56 AM »

"Ad-hominem" is bunch of bs. What is frequently denounced as "ad-hominem" frequently serves to point out lack of expertise, bias, etc. Some people just aren't worth even hearing, and efforts to demonstrate that are frequently denounced as "ad-hominem." So I don't shy away from leveling pertinent valid "ad-hominem" attacks.

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #6 on:** June 02, 2016, 01:36:08 PM »

Quote from: OHCA

"Ad-hominem" is bunch of bs. What is frequently denounced as "ad-hominem" frequently serves to point out lack of expertise, bias, etc. Some people just aren't worth even hearing, and efforts to demonstrate that are frequently denounced as "ad-hominem." So I don't shy away from leveling pertinent valid "ad-hominem" attacks.

Ad-hominem arguments are a defined term, it exists, to say that it is bs is akin to saying that the ocean is not wet.

If a person "isn't worth listening to", it can easily be shown by proving it.

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #7 on:** June 02, 2016, 03:26:22 PM »

Do I need to remind everyone here that ad-hominem attacks are not the Catholic way? Detraction against someones character is a mortal sin.

Mark 79 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 02, 2016, 03:37:32 PM »

Quote from: OHCA

"Ad-hominem" is bunch of bs. What is frequently denounced as "ad-hominem" frequently serves to point out lack of expertise, bias, etc. Some people just aren't worth even hearing, and efforts to demonstrate that are frequently denounced as "ad-hominem." So I don't shy away from leveling pertinent valid "ad-hominem" attacks.

My experience is the exact opposite, that the one name-calling is the one without expertise and without evidence.

I have spent a fair amount of time studying Judaism and the history that Judaism has inspired. More often than not, when I present verifiable quotes or evidence my opponents will simply declare that I am "an antisemite," "a nαzι," or some body part. That is ad hominem. When dealing with the tribe, ad hominem is the rule, not the exception.

Incredulous · « **Reply #9 on:** June 02, 2016, 05:28:43 PM »

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #10 on:** June 07, 2016, 02:04:06 PM »

There are some people here on CI that consider these discussions as a kind of competition sport where if they lose, they are labeled idiots. I feel sorry for them.

CI is about putting together our heads, our knowledge, our research, to multiply the speed of the acquisition of knowledge and truth. It is not about fighting with everyone as if they were our enemies trying to make us look bad.

I actually look forward to having people make me look puerile (as long as it is done politely), because it shows that I am learning.

cassini · « **Reply #11 on:** July 13, 2016, 04:55:46 AM »

Quote from: Last Tradhican

A person that is truly knowledgeable on a subject, can never be offended by the arguments of others who are comparatively speaking"amateurs" on that subject.

Fools rush in where wise men fear to go. A wise man does not get offended by the insults and arguments of a child, a fool.

The proper response to an ad-hominem attack is no response at all, and especially no retaliatory ad-hominem.

I see here adult men and even priests engaging in self defense ad-hominem attacks and diploma waving, this is not good sign, it tells me the so-called "expert" is being fazed by an amateur. It tells me that the "expert" does not altogether believe what he is teaching.

Let's learn from our mistakes.

Most interesting thread (except where I for one fear to thread - women matters).

As the recipient of the ultimate ad hominem ploy, being barred from two Catholic forums and endless posts telling me I know nothing about biblical exegesis and hermeneutics, science, history, infallibility and whatever other subject that pops up, I would like to give my two-cents worth.

20 years now I have studied the Galileo affair, and there is very little I do not know about the subject (except perhaps what Galileo eat for breakfast.). Yet when I approach the subject of geocentism on Catholic forums in particular, the ad hominems come from all directions. Rather than argue the facts, the ad hominer tells all you must be an idiot to believe this or that.

Catholic forums should not be one on one arguments. I always have in mind others who are reading them. Thus, rather than exchange ad hominems I answer by way of facts. Now while these get another dose of ad hominems I hope readers are making up their own minds who is contributing most to the subject matter.

Without proper debate a subject will go nowhere and inevitably one stops posting. What I find most frustrating is the lack of response from others in an ad hominem exchange. All it needs is for others to say, 'hang on a minute, I think what the man has to say makes perfect sense.' Alas, it is usually other ad hominemers who join in rather than those who may find the victim's arguments worthy. Thus the ad hominemers win, the subject is closed and nobody is any better off in knowledge.