Author Topic: The Program for the Upcoming Canonization Service (Read 6232 times)

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #15 on:** April 27, 2014, 09:59:17 AM »

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I was entirely wrong about the Gloria, for example. The Libretto has the Chant neums and Gregorian notation for the "assembly" to sing but the words only for the "schola." The actual music the schola sang is all new, polyphonic/adult cantor/child solo, etc., all mixed up. There is no continuity according to Chant tradition, so the music has no melodic line and is chock full of irrational breaks in the musical line, except for when the assembly sings.

It is a completely confused mix of the old tradition and the nonsense/new.

Welcome to the hybrid model. Anything goes. The Chant is only there as a museum exhibit and as bait to lure in the trads.

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Thorn · « **Reply #16 on:** April 27, 2014, 02:50:50 PM »

I didn't watch this mockery, but did see a picture of the crowds & noticed how gloomy & overcast the sky was. We are indeed witnessing the Passion of the Church!! The people have erected a god in their own image. His few but faithful followers are deeply saddened. Christ can not be seen now but we know that He is still here. Rejoice & be glad!! We live in momentous times. He will not be mocked forever!

holysoulsacademy · « **Reply #17 on:** April 27, 2014, 05:22:31 PM »

Quote from: Neil Obstat

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They ended the Veni creator spiritus at the end of verse 6 and did not sing verse 7.

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Because it invokes the Trinity.

poche · « **Reply #18 on:** April 28, 2014, 12:05:00 AM »

They showed the canonization mass live on Uivision last night. It started around 4:00am EST. There were no commercials.
Most of it was in Latin. They read the Gospel twice. Once in Latin and then in Greek.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #19 on:** April 28, 2014, 04:42:02 PM »

Quote from: holysoulsacademy

Quote from: Neil Obstat
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They ended the Veni creator spiritus at the end of verse 6 and did not sing verse 7.

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Because it invokes the Trinity.

(7. Deo Patri sit gloria, et Filio qui a mortuis, surrexit ac Paraclito, in saeculorum saecula. Amen.)

That may be true, but the Father, Son and Holy Spirit (not "Holy Ghost" -- but "thou who art called the Paraclete," "Qui diceris Paraclitus" - verse #2 of Veni creator) are mentioned in other places. I could not find any mention of "the Trinity" however (I also double checked by searching the Libretto for "trinity" and it came up "Phrase not found"). Maybe they're afraid of offending Mohammedans.

Likewise, verse 7 puts all three divine Persons in the same sentence, instead of being scattered amongst two or more sentences as is the usual case in this Libretto that I could find.

The most conspicuous exception is verse #6 of this same Veni creator:

6. Through thee may we the Father know,
through thee th’eternal Son,
and thee the Spirit of them both,
thrice-blessed three in One.

L’assemblea:
6. Per te sciamus da Patrem
Noscamus atque Filium
Te[que] utriusque Spiritum
Credamus omni tempore.

[The Libretto has another typo where they say "te utrisuque" instead of "teque utriusque." This grammatical error seems to ambiguously imply that the Holy Ghost is not the Spirit of both the Father and the Son -- reminiscent of the long-disputed Filioque clause in the Nicene Creed, but which is found, okay, on pp. 100-101 of this Libretto.]

Another friend pointed out to me that 7 is the number of perfection, and as a sacred number implies the perfection of God (7 sacraments, 7 days of the week, 7 gifts of the Holy Ghost, 7 ages of the Church, 7 loaves and fishes, 7th heaven, the book with 7 seals Apocalypse cap. v.).

But 6 is the number of imperfection, the number of man, and thrice 6 is man's imitation of God, 666.

Which reminds me, 5 decades of the Rosary is commonly called "a Rosary," even though it is one-third of a complete 15-decade Rosary, or point three three three.

But when you add the 5 'luminous' decades, you get a total possible of 20 mysteries, and then one third of that would be "six point six six" mysteries.

In this way, John Paul the 'Great' patron of child molesters is seen as the promoter of the 6.66 mystery Rosary.

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Neil Obstat · « **Reply #20 on:** April 28, 2014, 04:54:21 PM »

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Anyone who wants to argue that John Paul the 'Great' patron of child molesters is not the promoter of the 6.66 mystery Rosary because one third of twenty is 6.67, not 6.66, my answer is that it is actually LESS than 6.66, because it is literally 6.666666..., or,

six point six six
six six six
six six six
six six six
six six six
six six six
six six six

etc.

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Charlemagne · « **Reply #21 on:** April 28, 2014, 05:13:19 PM »

Quote from: Neil Obstat

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Anyone who wants to argue that John Paul the 'Great' patron of child molesters is not the promoter of the 6.66 mystery Rosary because one third of twenty is 6.67, not 6.66, my answer is that it is actually LESS than 6.66, because it is literally 6.666666..., or,

six point six six
six six six
six six six
six six six
six six six
six six six
six six six

etc.

.

This is Paul VI’s signature upside down. Honestly, who makes a “P” like this?

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #22 on:** April 28, 2014, 06:25:05 PM »

Quote from: Charlemagne

Quote from: Neil Obstat
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Anyone who wants to argue that John Paul the 'Great' patron of child molesters is not the promoter of the 6.66 mystery Rosary because one third of twenty is 6.67, not 6.66, my answer is that it is actually LESS than 6.66, because it is literally 6.666666..., or,

six point six six
six six six
six six six
six six six
six six six
six six six
six six six

etc.

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This is Paul VI’s signature upside down. Honestly, who makes a “P” like this?

You mean this was Paul VI? VI? VI?

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parentsfortruth · « **Reply #23 on:** April 28, 2014, 06:37:13 PM »

Interesting they never mentioned he was Papal Nuncio to Istanbul in their biography of John XXIII... It said he was "Apostolic Delegate to Turkey and Greece," but no mention of his tenure as "Papal Nuncio" to Istanbul.

Wow...

Listen to this exchange.

He (Roncalli-- John XXIII) expanded and internationalized the college of cardinals, called the first diocesan synod of Rome in history, revised the code of canon law, and called the Second Vatican Council to revitalize the church. This council was the major achievement of his life [and undertook] to renew the life of the church and its teachings, with the ultimate goal of the reunification of Christianity.

[The council marked the beginning of a new spirit of openness On the part of Rome toward Christians not of the papal obedience. The story is told that, when it was announced that Protestant leaders would be invited to the council as observers, the conservative Cardinal Ottaviani was horrified. He said:

"But Your Holiness, Protestants are heretics!"

"Do not say, 'heretics,' my son. Say, 'separated
Brethren.'"

"They are in league with the devil!"

"Do not say, 'devil,' my son. Say, 'separated angel.'"]

I WONDER WHAT SAINT WOULD EVER SAY THAT! Oh that's right! NOT A CATHOLIC "SAINT!" A "SATANIC" SAINT!

Hmm, I wonder what he would say now?

"Do not say "in hell," my son. Say "auto exclusion!"

Oh wait, that was what John Paul II said.

Now they can say it together! They can play word games together in their "auto exclusion!"

Luker · « **Reply #24 on:** April 28, 2014, 08:29:03 PM »

Quote from: parentsfortruth

the conservative Cardinal Ottaviani was horrified. He said:

"But Your Holiness, Protestants are heretics!"

"Do not say, 'heretics,' my son. Say, 'separated
Brethren.'"

"They are in league with the devil!"

"Do not say, 'devil,' my son. Say, 'separated angel.'"]

separated angel... lol wat!?!?!

Do you have a source for this conversation ParentsforTruth?

parentsfortruth · « **Reply #25 on:** April 28, 2014, 08:29:04 PM »

Quote from: Neil Obstat

Quote from: Charlemagne
Quote from: Neil Obstat
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Anyone who wants to argue that John Paul the 'Great' patron of child molesters is not the promoter of the 6.66 mystery Rosary because one third of twenty is 6.67, not 6.66, my answer is that it is actually LESS than 6.66, because it is literally 6.666666..., or,

six point six six
six six six
six six six
six six six
six six six
six six six
six six six

etc.

.

This is Paul VI’s signature upside down. Honestly, who makes a “P” like this?

You mean this was Paul VI? VI? VI?

.

No, see it would have been Paul 6666. Notice the VI and the 6 6 6.

poche · « **Reply #26 on:** April 28, 2014, 11:01:52 PM »

Quote from: parentsfortruth

Interesting they never mentioned he was Papal Nuncio to Istanbul in their biography of John XXIII... It said he was "Apostolic Delegate to Turkey and Greece," but no mention of his tenure as "Papal Nuncio" to Istanbul.

Wow...

Listen to this exchange.

He (Roncalli-- John XXIII) expanded and internationalized the college of cardinals, called the first diocesan synod of Rome in history, revised the code of canon law, and called the Second Vatican Council to revitalize the church. This council was the major achievement of his life [and undertook] to renew the life of the church and its teachings, with the ultimate goal of the reunification of Christianity.

[The council marked the beginning of a new spirit of openness On the part of Rome toward Christians not of the papal obedience. The story is told that, when it was announced that Protestant leaders would be invited to the council as observers, the conservative Cardinal Ottaviani was horrified. He said:

"But Your Holiness, Protestants are heretics!"

"Do not say, 'heretics,' my son. Say, 'separated
Brethren.'"

"They are in league with the devil!"

"Do not say, 'devil,' my son. Say, 'separated angel.'"]

I WONDER WHAT SAINT WOULD EVER SAY THAT! Oh that's right! NOT A CATHOLIC "SAINT!" A "SATANIC" SAINT!

Hmm, I wonder what he would say now?

"Do not say "in hell," my son. Say "auto exclusion!"

Oh wait, that was what John Paul II said.

Now they can say it together! They can play word games together in their "auto exclusion!"

The term "seperated brethren" is a tool of evangelization. The idea is to create an ambiance that is not hostile. The fruit of this is when Protestants return to the Catholic Faith.

parentsfortruth · « **Reply #27 on:** April 29, 2014, 09:23:54 AM »

Oh, but you would call Lucifer a "separated angel," poche?

:stare:

Miseremini · « **Reply #28 on:** April 29, 2014, 11:43:32 AM »

Quote from: Neil Obstat

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Anyone who wants to argue that John Paul the 'Great' patron of child molesters is not the promoter of the 6.66 mystery Rosary because one third of twenty is 6.67, not 6.66, my answer is that it is actually LESS than 6.66, because it is literally 6.666666..., or,

six point six six
six six six
six six six
six six six
six six six
six six six
six six six

etc.

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Neil I'm having a dense moment today. I understand that the luminous mysteries added account for the "20" but I don't understand the "1/3". Aren't they 1/4 of his new rosary? Regardless not Our Lady's rosary.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #29 on:** May 01, 2014, 04:42:26 AM »

Quote from: Miseremini

Quote from: Neil Obstat
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Anyone who wants to argue that John Paul the 'Great' patron of child molesters is not the promoter of the 6.66 mystery Rosary because one third of twenty is 6.67, not 6.66, my answer is that it is actually LESS than 6.67, because it is literally 6.666666..., or,

six point
six six six
six six six
six six six
six six six
six six six
six six six

etc.

.

Neil I'm having a dense moment today. I understand that the luminous mysteries added account for the "20" but I don't understand the "1/3". Aren't they 1/4 of this new rosary? Regardless not Our Lady's rosary.

It's okay. When I first heard this I had to rewind and hear it again. Maybe I didn't say it very well.. how about this:

The luminous mysteries added, account for the "20" -- there are 20 mysteries that way.

But I don't understand the "1/3" -- the 1/3 is APPLIED TO the 20, not derived from it.

Aren't they 1/4 of this new rosary? -- Yes, 5 decades are 1/4 of 20 decades. But thinking about that isn't the thinking that I'm referring to.

Think of it this way:
TRADITIONALLY, we say, "There are 15 Mysteries in the Rosary and one-third of them is 5 mysteries, which we like to call 'a Rosary' even though it's only ONE THIRD of a complete 15-decade Rosary."

So we speak, therefore, traditionally thusly: "When we say 'a Rosary' we usually mean one third of a complete Rosary."

Now, along comes the Newfangled Newrosary with an additional 5 decades, and so if we want to ask traditionally about that, we would ask,

Question:
"One third of a Complete Newfangled Newrosary is how many decades?"

(The Newfangled Newrosary is 20 decades and when you divide that by three you get 6.66 decades.)

Answer:
"One third of a Complete Newfangled Newrosary is 6.66 decades."

The point is not that when you pray the 'luminous mysteries' you have to find a way of saying only 6.66 decades. That's not reasonable. It would amount to some fraction of the 13 prayers, like 8-2/3 of them. You'd be somewhere in the second half of the 8th Hail Mary. What about the concluding prayers? Etc. &c, etc. It's just a joke. And explaining all the nuances like this means it won't be funny. Here is how to present it:

You say:
Hi, Mike. We're going to pray the Rosary today.

Mike:
Oh! That's great! I like to pray the 'luminous mysteries'! Is that what you're doing?

You:
Actually, it's Paschal Time, so we'll pray the Glorious Mysteries.

Mike:
Why not the 'luminous mysteries'?

You:
Well, have you thought about it this way? When we pray all 15 decades, that's called a Complete Rosary, and the shorter version is one third, so the number of your decades is 5, correct?

Mike:
Yeah, one third of those is the number 5. So what's your point?

You:
Okay, so a regular "ROSARY" is one third of a complete Rosary, but if you're saying there are 20 decades in a complete Rosary, when you pray one-third of those, the number of your decades is 6.66.

Mike:
Oh. 6.66, huh? I don't know if that's such a good idea anymore. Okay then, it's the Glorious Mysteries.

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