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Author Topic: The problem with straight marriage  (Read 1168 times)

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Offline Iuvenalis

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The problem with straight marriage
« on: March 25, 2013, 08:32:34 PM »
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  • Not surprising to any of us who've looked at this before, but the point about the under-30's I hadn't considered:

     http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/25/opinion/frum-real-marriage-issue/index.html


    Offline MaterDominici

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    The problem with straight marriage
    « Reply #1 on: March 25, 2013, 08:44:30 PM »
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  • This was an interesting quote.

    Quote
    "I think the greatest, most astonishing fact that I am aware of in social science right now is that women have been able to hear the labor market screaming out 'You need more education' and have been able to respond to that, and men have not. And it's very, very scary for economists because people should be responding to price signals. And men are not. It's a fact in need of an explanation."

    As men (on average) finish less education, as male wages (on average) decline, men become less attractive as marital partners. As Harvard's Christopher Jencks -- a left-leaning academic, it should be stressed -- said in that same New York Times piece: "Single-parent families tend to emerge in places where the men already are a mess."


    "I think that Catholicism, that's as sane as people can get."  - Jordan Peterson


    Offline Telesphorus

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    The problem with straight marriage
    « Reply #2 on: March 25, 2013, 08:52:47 PM »
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  • David Frum is a Jєωιѕн neocon.

    The "labor market" is required to hire a certain proportion of women.

    They will be trying to impose this even on technical fields in the near future.






    Offline Iuvenalis

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    The problem with straight marriage
    « Reply #3 on: March 25, 2013, 08:54:28 PM »
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  • Re: Paragraph 1 Speaking of 'price signals,' how about the cost of an education today? To say nothing of its lousy return on the investment (and debt) as people with 'a degree' struggle to find work.

    Re: Paragraph 2 The complete omission of the influence of feminist propaganda in this struck me while I was reading it before I posted it. This paragraph makes it sound like women are hyperrational in their husband-selection, or that a well-earning man is desirable. In reality, it is shameful for a woman to be supported by a husband, or to become a SAHM, heaven forbid she do so *with* a degree. The feminist propaganda says "Get an education, who needs a man" but has subtly morphed into "get an education *so that* you don't need a man"

    Offline Iuvenalis

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    The problem with straight marriage
    « Reply #4 on: March 25, 2013, 08:58:41 PM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    David Frum is a Jєωιѕн neocon.

    The "labor market" is required to hire a certain proportion of women.

    They will be trying to impose this even on technical fields in the near future.







    Ah Tele, we already do. I see it at work.

    And my post above re:P1 and P2 were in response to MaterDominici's quoted paragraphs.


    Offline MaterDominici

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    The problem with straight marriage
    « Reply #5 on: March 25, 2013, 09:11:24 PM »
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  • Quote
    As men (on average) finish less education, as male wages (on average) decline, men become less attractive as marital partners.


    That's laughable.
    In my experience, the man's income has next to nothing to do with his chances of being married.
    Sure, there are women who will chase after BIG money, but when it comes to average, above average, or below average (or even none at all) incomes, I don't see the poor guys as being certain to finish last.
    "I think that Catholicism, that's as sane as people can get."  - Jordan Peterson

    Offline Iuvenalis

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    The problem with straight marriage
    « Reply #6 on: March 25, 2013, 09:27:32 PM »
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  • Quote from: MaterDominici
    Quote
    As men (on average) finish less education, as male wages (on average) decline, men become less attractive as marital partners.


    That's laughable.
    In my experience, the man's income has next to nothing to do with his chances of being married.
    Sure, there are women who will chase after BIG money, but when it comes to average, above average, or below average (or even none at all) incomes, I don't see the poor guys as being certain to finish last.


    Indeed, if these women were so hyperrational they wouldn't be getting divorces either. People who stay with just one spouse do far better in the long run financially.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    The problem with straight marriage
    « Reply #7 on: March 30, 2013, 01:52:44 AM »
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  • Quote from: MaterDominici
    This was an interesting quote.

    Quote
    "I think the greatest, most astonishing fact that I am aware of in social science right now is that women have been able to hear the labor market screaming out 'You need more education' and have been able to respond to that, and men have not. And it's very, very scary for economists because people should be responding to price signals. And men are not. It's a fact in need of an explanation."

    As men (on average) finish less education, as male wages (on average) decline, men become less attractive as marital partners. As Harvard's Christopher Jencks -- a left-leaning academic, it should be stressed -- said in that same New York Times piece: "Single-parent families tend to emerge in places where the men already are a mess."




    Dalrock highlighted and responded to the same quote you did:

    http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2013/03/29/why-arent-men-responding-to-economic-signals/


    Offline MaterDominici

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    The problem with straight marriage
    « Reply #8 on: March 30, 2013, 03:06:54 PM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Dalrock highlighted and responded to the same quote you did:

    http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2013/03/29/why-arent-men-responding-to-economic-signals/


    Good read, but that sure is a depressing blog.  :smile:

    He puts forth the thought that things will get bad enough to encourage a shift back towards a family-centered society. I hope that's right as this world is much too messed up to think that things could possibily be even worse for the next generation.
    "I think that Catholicism, that's as sane as people can get."  - Jordan Peterson

    Offline Telesphorus

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    The problem with straight marriage
    « Reply #9 on: March 30, 2013, 03:15:02 PM »
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  • Quote from: MaterDominici
    Good read, but that sure is a depressing blog.  :smile:


    Yeah, it really is sometimes.  It's probably best to avoid the comments, which can be crass and even more discouraging.

    Quote
    He puts forth the thought that things will get bad enough to encourage a shift back towards a family-centered society. I hope that's right as this world is much too messed up to think that things could possibily be even worse for the next generation.


    Things can get much, much worse.  Think of the Germans in 1944 being bombed.  They hadn't seen anything yet.

    And I think they will get much worse, because even the parts of society that are supposed to be most conservative are thoroughly imbued with feminist presuppositions, attitudes, their children, especially their daughters, are immersed in modern culture, without the tools and the guidance to resist it.

    Trads would rather feud with each other over the chapel pecking order than resist the world.

    Offline MaterDominici

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    The problem with straight marriage
    « Reply #10 on: March 30, 2013, 03:20:21 PM »
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  • I followed the link to this book:
    Enjoy the Decline

    The premise as explained in the book description is interesting, but according to the first review, he excludes marriage and family as a possibility and isn't opposed to tossing morality out the window.

    I'll have to hold out for the Catholic version.
    "I think that Catholicism, that's as sane as people can get."  - Jordan Peterson


    Offline Telesphorus

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    The problem with straight marriage
    « Reply #11 on: March 30, 2013, 03:21:18 PM »
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  • Yes, things will likely become much worse:

    (WARNING the comment section should probably be avoided)

    http://www.the-spearhead.com/2013/03/29/antifeminism-might-become-illegal-in-the-nordic-countries/

    Offline Zeitun

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    The problem with straight marriage
    « Reply #12 on: March 30, 2013, 03:25:45 PM »
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  • Requiring or seeking a husband with large income potential with the justification of "needing to provide for a large family" shows lack of faith in God's Providence to provide what is needed.  As does having health insurance.  All you need is a good priest.  

    Why not marry a poor man and seek an income from Our Lord?  He won't disappoint.