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Author Topic: THE PASSION SEQUEL  (Read 3935 times)

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Offline Miseremini

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Re: THE PASSION SEQUEL
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2018, 02:58:05 PM »
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    • FINALLY some sanity from PAX VOBIS! ! !

    If Almighty God could use Judas to bring about the redemption of mankind why couldn't
    He use Mel Gibson or any other sinner to rattle the consciences of His wayward children  
    with graphic visual aids?

    I hope God's judgement is more merciful on some of the posters here than they have been 
    on the producers of this film.
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    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: THE PASSION SEQUEL
    « Reply #16 on: February 01, 2018, 03:36:20 PM »
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    • I love when the anti-judgers post specifically to judge others.  The irony is delicious.

    To be clear, I was not judging Mel's soul.  I was judging whether he's the best person to produce a traditional Catholic film when non-Catholics will look at his own life and actions as pure hypocrisy.

    Granted, it will probably be a fabulous movie and I will probably see it because I thought The Passion of Christ was unbelievable.  My husband and I have made it an annual tradition to watch it on Good Friday or Holy Saturday. 
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    Offline wallflower

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    Re: THE PASSION SEQUEL
    « Reply #17 on: February 01, 2018, 04:53:22 PM »
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    • Would you trust Pope Francis to write a truly holy book?

    If not, why not?

    Would you consider yourself judgmental for it?

    If your argument is that God can pull good out of evil, then you are actually agreeing with the premise, so I am not sure why there is an argument. Art is an expression of the soul and we cannot give what we do not have. I have difficulty believing that an unrepentant public enemy of God (especially one who knows better) is going to be tapping into some secret spring of sanctifying grace to infuse into the movie. If God chooses to use it for good anyway then that is a different story. But don't forget that just because we are moved in sentiment doesn't necessarily mean we are truly stronger in Faith. Many of the people watching these movies don't know the difference and I think that gets played on a bit.


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    Offline Meg

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    Re: THE PASSION SEQUEL
    « Reply #18 on: February 01, 2018, 04:54:16 PM »
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    • I'm looking forward to the Mel Gibson's new film. If it's anything near as good as The Passion, it will be worth seeing.

    I think that Mel Gibson suffers from bi-polar or something similar. But that doesn't mean that he can't produce a film that reflects the truth of Our Lord's Resurrection. 

    Mel Gibson suffered a great deal at the hands not only Hollywood Jews, but Jews in general with the Passion film. I recall that the former ADL director Abe Foxman was sure that the release of the film, "The Passion," would cause anti-Semitic events to occur. Except that they didn't occur. Not at all. 

    Gibson's mental health suffered, and his marriage. He basically lost his family as a result of the circuмstances of that film being made and released. Not that he is without blame, but still. 

    One of my concerns about the new film is that the writer Randall Wallace is going to be involved. Randall Wallace was the screenwriter, if I'm not mistaken, for Gibson's film, "Braveheart." Randall Wallace took a lot of liberties with the life of William Wallace, and added quite a few things which didn't actually occur in the life of William Wallace. So hopefully the same thing won't happen with the new film. 

    Glad that Jim Caviezel will be in the new film. It would be difficult to imagine another actor in his place. 
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: THE PASSION SEQUEL
    « Reply #19 on: February 01, 2018, 05:42:21 PM »
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    • Quote
    I have difficulty believing that an unrepentant public enemy of God (especially one who knows better) is going to be tapping into some secret spring of sanctifying grace to infuse into the movie.
    Your expectations are way, way too extreme.  I just expect a movie with a catholic topic, made by a catholic director, who wants to portray the catholic mode of thinking on the topic.  Just like the passion was.  Anything else is gravy and not expected.  

    A movie is entertainment, not a sacramental.  Actual grace is always present in any situation, even a drug deal.  Sanctifying grace is only from the Church.  
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    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: THE PASSION SEQUEL
    « Reply #20 on: February 01, 2018, 07:23:13 PM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on February 01, 2018, 03:36:20 PM
    I love when the anti-judgers post specifically to judge others.  The irony is delicious.

    To be clear, I was not judging Mel's soul.  I was judging whether he's the best person to produce a traditional Catholic film when non-Catholics will look at his own life and actions as pure hypocrisy.

    Granted, it will probably be a fabulous movie and I will probably see it because I thought The Passion of Christ was unbelievable.  My husband and I have made it an annual tradition to watch it on Good Friday or Holy Saturday.


    I felt the same way about "The Passion of Christ" movie and own 4 or 5 copies of the DVD.

    In hindsight, I've wondered about some of the symbolism in his Passion movie.

    For example, why did Gibson show Our Lord crushing the head of the serpent in the opening scenes ?

    This is the heretical Protestant interpretation, that Our Lord crushes the head of the snake.

    The protestants intentionally rewrote Genesis 3:15 in their bibles, to remove Mother Mary's crushing the head of the serpent.

    Our Catholic Old Testament tells us, the Virgin has sole license to crush the head of the serpent.

    I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed:
    she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel. [Genesis 3:15]

    If the Hollywood rabbis could sneak this heresy in on 100 million Christians, they've advanced the devil's campaign.

    To cross check this, consider Gibson has shown nothing but bad fruit since he made the film in 2004 ?  
    He's become a laughing stock to the Faith.  If all the film set miracles occurred as we were told, Gibson should be in a monastery now, (not impregnating women other than his wife).

    Yes, Film has a powerful subconscious influence.

    I'm just cautioning that we should scrutinize everything that's being served-up to us, especially from Hollywood.
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    Offline Miseremini

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    Re: THE PASSION SEQUEL
    « Reply #21 on: February 01, 2018, 08:45:23 PM »
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    • Quote from: Incredulous on February 01, 2018, 07:23:13 PM



    why did Gibson show Our Lord crushing the head of the serpent in the opening scenes ?

    This is the heretical Protestant interpretation, that Our Lord crushes the head of the snake.

    The protestants intentionally rewrote Genesis 3:15 in their bibles, to remove Mother Mary's crushing the head of the serpent.

    Our Catholic Old Testament tells us, the Virgin has sole license to crush the head of the serpent.

    Checking in the Haydock bible 1884 in the footnotes for Genesis 3:15 it reads,
    "for it is by her seed, Jesus Christ that the woman crushes the serpent's head".
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    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: THE PASSION SEQUEL
    « Reply #22 on: February 01, 2018, 08:57:37 PM »
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    • i think that Gibson and Caviziel unfortunately have to appeal to the Evangelical and Pentecostal audience because the vast bulk of Novus Ordo-dom could give a hoot or care less about a legitimate "Jesus" movie.
     (The American Bishops, prompted by their zionist handlers asked to review the script from "The Passion" to check for affronts to certain 'sensitivities"  before it's release in 2004). Gibson doesn't trust these people.
     
    Maybe they( Gibson et al) are evangelizing the protestants with clearly authentic and moving Catholic films.
    Just a thought and certainly not defending Mel's craziness, but God has given him this platform to reach millions with traditional Catholic optics for some reason, and despite his failings and bad behavior, he still gravitates to the true Faith and is courageous enough to display it on grand scale and take the heat for it publicly.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: THE PASSION SEQUEL
    « Reply #23 on: February 01, 2018, 09:00:16 PM »
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    • My interpretation of that scene is that Christ had prayed for strength in the garden that He might fulfill Gods will.  Thus, as He was leaving the garden, He had conquered the temptations of Satan, thus He stepped on the snake.  

    Had nothing to do with Genesis. 
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: THE PASSION SEQUEL
    « Reply #24 on: February 01, 2018, 09:02:07 PM »
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    • Agree, Jose.  Many Protestant sects are way more catholic "in potential" than the novus ordo.  
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    Offline wallflower

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    Re: THE PASSION SEQUEL
    « Reply #25 on: February 01, 2018, 09:19:08 PM »
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    • I agree that it isn't a sacramental but I disagree that it's pure entertainment. It's not some secular show, taken lightly, as is, with no expectations or pretense. It isn't presented or received as just a movie or pure entertainment. There is a religious cult following of the movie; many people's Lent isn't complete without watching the movie; people break down into charismatic-style emotional episodes watching it; Jim's been touring around giving NO motivational talks ever since. I'm sorry, I just find its fruit uncomfortably sensational. If the source were more trustworthy I would be more willing to question if it's my understanding that is flawed because it frequently is. Why can I watch a silly secular movie but I am critical of these? It's a valid question. Maybe it's me. But the source isn't trustworthy either, so I am stuck with this opinion. And Mel only getting worse in recent years does not help. He's not top on the list of those I am turning to for enlightenment.
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    Offline Croix de Fer

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    Re: THE PASSION SEQUEL
    « Reply #26 on: February 01, 2018, 09:54:34 PM »
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    • The treacherous, manipulative Jews pressured Gibson to remove the scene of Matthew 27:25 from the first movie (The Passion) because they didn't want the fact that Jews are racially accursed to resonate with the viewer.
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    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: THE PASSION SEQUEL
    « Reply #27 on: February 01, 2018, 10:04:21 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on February 01, 2018, 09:00:16 PM
    My interpretation of that scene is that Christ had prayed for strength in the garden that He might fulfill Gods will.  Thus, as He was leaving the garden, He had conquered the temptations of Satan, thus He stepped on the snake.  

    Had nothing to do with Genesis.


    There's been a long Catholic-Prot debate about this, per below.

    But Gibson was sold to us as a "trad" and he went out of his way to show us wearing his scapular.

    He even did interviews to tell us the movie was inspired by the revelations of Anne Catherine Emmerich.

    So, I'm not buying this Malibu trad-man's "artistic license" with such important imagery.

    Genesis 3:15 is the called the Proto-Evangelium (or “First-Gospel”). In this passage, God promises to defeat Satan through the operation of “the woman” and “her seed.” Tradition identifies the “the woman” as the Blessed Virgin Mary and “the seed” as our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Historically, there has been a debate over how to translate this verse and render it from the Hebrew. The debate centers on whether God says “he” shall crush Satan’s head or whether “she” shall crush Satan’s head.
    Now, it doesn’t much matter since either reading is orthodox and true. Christ crushes the head of Satan absolutely, and Mary crushes the head of Satan by virtue of her role as the Mother of God and New Eve.
    For Catholics, the “she” reading is the traditional reading of the Latin Vulgate and it is important because it highlights the importance of “the woman” (i.e. Mary) in human salvation. In other words, the “she shall crush” reading supports the Catholic argument that Mary’s role as Mother of God makes her Mediatrix and her role as New Eve makes her Coredemptrix.
    The obvious solution to this problem is simply to look at the original Hebrew. But that is where the problem begins. The medieval Hebrew Masoretic manuscripts read “he shall crush.” (However, there are two Hebrew manuscripts that read “she shall crush.”) However, there is good reason to doubt the majority Hebrew reading of “he shall crush.”
    Our three best Jєωιѕн witnesses to Gen 3:15 interpret the passage as “she shall crush.” These are Philo Judaeus, Josephus the roman historian, and Moses Maimonides, the great medieval Jєωιѕн philosopher. Philo argues that the Hebrew parallel poetry of Gen 3:15 demands the reading of “she shall crush.” Josephus, also writing in Greek, describes the passage for us as reading “she shall crush.” Then last of all, Maimonides also states that Gen 3:15 teaches that the woman shall crush the head of the serpent.
    So then, these three great Jєωιѕн scholars testify to the traditional Catholic reading of the Latin Vulgate. Why are the Hebrew manuscripts that we have today different from these ancient Jєωιѕн witnesses. The answer is that the Masoretic manuscript tradition has been corrupted – something claimed by the both the Eastern and Western Fathers throughout the centuries.
    Even though I have previously used “he shall crush” in my first book and on this blog, I’m going to revert to the traditional reading of Gen 3:15 from herein out: “she shall crush your head.”
    “I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel” (Gen 3:15).
    O Mary conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: THE PASSION SEQUEL
    « Reply #28 on: February 02, 2018, 07:45:48 AM »
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    • Maybe Mel did pander to the protestants in that scene.  So what?  That's a 5 second 'protestant' scene in a 2 hour catholic movie.  We can't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: THE PASSION SEQUEL
    « Reply #29 on: February 02, 2018, 09:51:07 AM »
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    • Quote
    I agree that it isn't a sacramental but I disagree that it's pure entertainment. It's not some secular show, taken lightly, as is, with no expectations or pretense.
    It isn't presented or received as just a movie or pure entertainment.
    It's a movie.  It didn't come directly from the Vatican, but from Hollywood.  The only expectation is that it will be a catholic viewpoint, since it comes from a catholic director/writer.

    Quote
    There is a religious cult following of the movie; many people's Lent isn't complete without watching the movie; people break down into charismatic-style emotional episodes watching it;
    This is not Mel's problem or purpose.  This is a personal problem of those who allow themselves to act like idiots.

    Quote
     Jim's been touring around giving NO motivational talks ever since. I'm sorry, I just find its fruit uncomfortably sensational. If the source were more trustworthy I would be more willing to question if it's my understanding that is flawed because it frequently is.
    The source was the visions of Anne Catherine Emmerich.

    Quote
    Why can I watch a silly secular movie but I am critical of these? It's a valid question. Maybe it's me.
    Because you hope for perfection in an imperfect world.  You love your religion so you want a religious movie to be perfect and worthy of God, and that's understandable, but it will never happen 100%.  Accept that it's 90% good and enjoy it.

    Quote
    But the source isn't trustworthy either, so I am stuck with this opinion. And Mel only getting worse in recent years does not help. He's not top on the list of those I am turning to for enlightenment.
    It is THE BEST religious movie depicting Christ's sufferings for us EVER made.  It's not perfect, and Mel's not perfect, and you're not perfect and neither am I.  Enjoy it for the good that it provides.
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