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Author Topic: The Far East  (Read 10845 times)

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The Far East
« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2012, 09:39:38 AM »
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No offense, but given everything I've said on this forum, I think that this statement of yours just sounds like paranoid silliness.


Well, I'd rather be inclined to paranoid silliness than pompous silliness. Do you think of the Index or the Holy Office as being somehow "paranoid seriousness"?  Holy Mother Church has always been solicitous of her children wandering away from salvation, so certain guidelines were established.


Obviously I believe in the wisdom of the Holy Office and the Sacred Index and believe in censorship.  I will take it one step further, though; the Church and Catholic powers were also right to restrict public assemblies, to punish protestors, to burn books, monitor university faculties, to imprison political dissidents, to execute Communists and Freemasons as traitors, to restrict the public status of non-believers, and to maintain secret police forces.  I don't see how any of that has to do with this thread, however.

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I've admitted that perhaps I just don't understand where you are coming from.


I think this is a good start.

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I'm not trying to be argumentative. But I've never heard any one claim on an internet forum that it would be necessary to follow their whole body of work on the forum to get an idea what they are talking about.


Listen, you seem to be assuming something about my positions or mindset such that you think it is pertinent to ask me whether or not I believe in the principle of censorship and its practice by the Church.  I have no idea where your thought process could have begun, based on anything I have written, that would lead you to ask such things.  Thus, it seems to me that you are making rash judgments based on a poor comprehension of these very few posts of mine in this thread alone.  I am advising you to know more about my or anybody's posting history before making such assumptions.  Nothing I have written, I believe, justifies treating me as if I were heterodox.  You seem to have an unfounded suspicion about my orthodoxy, however, despite nothing in this thread suggesting heterodoxy.

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I threw in Merton because he seemed to be the predominant example of what too great an enthusiasm for the Far East might lead one. But, perhaps, you are not familiar with his tragic life story and fall from grace.


Nah, I know about Thomas Merton.  This thread is about the Far East, you know.  If your only familiarity with my posts is on this thread, perhaps you would be justified in believing that I have "too great an enthusiasm for the Far East," whatever that means.  Then again... the thread is about the Far East.

As for my own position, be assured that I believe in the unique alliance of the Church with Roman, Hellenic, and Semitic culture.  My interest in the Far East is dealt with in the first post of this thread by Vladimir.  I believe in the embrace of natural goods within other cultures as much as possible, Romanisation where necessary.  This is because I believe that Catholics should work towards the conversion of the entire world and for the integral Kingship of Christ, such that we can rejoice in "a world that is tranquil and reclining in the embrace of the most profound calm, and for the blessings of peace that was won with great effort" (Edict of Maximum Prices, Theodosius II, 301 AD).

The Far East
« Reply #26 on: December 06, 2012, 09:57:10 AM »
Two things that will be dealt with in two separate posts.  First, this thought of mine from the "White Power" thread is pertinent to this Far East thread, specifically the underlined portions :

"Furthermore, Indo-European Japhethites clearly have the authority to protect and preserve their own nations and races from being erased or dissolved, and this for the same reason that any race does.  In fact, I think this is eminently desirable and good.  Our Lord clearly chose the Roman Empire for a reason, given the amount of structure and cultural inheritance that the Church Militant has used as the flesh for the Faith.  Catholic culture is also Roman culture, as only a basic familiarity ancient Roman history, culture, and institutions makes painfully obvious.  The Church is uniquely Roman in its culture and organisational structure as well as the language by which it articulates its mind and has taught the nations.  It is Hellenic, of course, too, and in a special way due to most of the Gospels and Epistles being originally written and preached the most in this language and according to the thought and genius of the Greeks.  

The appropriation of these cultures is unique and can never be replicated in the same way, except perhaps for the premium cultural incarnation of the mind of God in a covenant, that of the ancient Semites descending from the son of Noe through Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, then becoming the Hebrews in Egypt and eventually the Israelites before becoming Judaeans.  Obviously this culture and legacy is at the core of the Faith, as we see in the Mass, the priesthood (of Melchizedech), the symbolism of the church building, and in the entire context from which the life of Our Lord derives its meaning.  In any case, the Roman heritage of the Church -- which consists chiefly in the Church's whole-hearted and irrevocable use of Roman customs and language for even the most sacred rites -- is different than all others.  Apparently, in God's eyes, the Romans were the best and greatest people for the accomplishment of the Church's mission.  That seems self-evident to me.

Yes, the Church has vested herself with cultural elements from other peoples, exceptionally the Celts and Germanics, but these elements, I would argue, are not at the core of Christianity in the way that the Roman, Greek, and Old Testament cultures are.  That is not to say that they are not real contributions and that they should be done away with, of course, but I don't see how they are appreciably different than the Church's use of Confucius might be, nor how the use of Aristotle for an ethics based on teleology and realism is substantially different than, say, a future use of Confucius as a basis for fleshing out the way of keeping virtuous relationships.  I think that many people take the experience of Germanic and Celtic cultures in the modern period (the last five hundred years) and, for lack of any readily apparent alternative, exalt them to an idolatrous level out of reaction to real damage being done to the social order.  I fault them for this, but I can understand it and have sympathised with it myself in the past. "


Perhaps somebody could comment on that line of thinking, suggest it is on the right track or is flawed ?  Maybe it's stupid.  Think about it.  I would be especially interested in Vladimir's input on this thread.  I have not really studied Confucius, but I like most of what I have read (with obvious exceptions, of course).


The Far East
« Reply #27 on: December 06, 2012, 10:02:19 AM »
Second question :

Are the Mongolic, Sinic, Tungusic, and Japonic peoples, as well as those who resemble them in appearance, descendants of Japheth, Sem, of Ham ?  If they are the former, how so and does that mean that they are destined to sit in the tents of Sem, to become part of Christendom ?  If they are the latter, how so and does that mean that they are cursed ?  If they are Semites, why do you think so and what does it mean ?

The Far East
« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2012, 03:42:32 PM »
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Listen, you seem to be assuming something about my positions or mindset such that you think it is pertinent to ask me whether or not I believe in the principle of censorship and its practice by the Church.  I have no idea where your thought process could have begun, based on anything I have written, that would lead you to ask such things.  Thus, it seems to me that you are making rash judgments based on a poor comprehension of these very few posts of mine in this thread alone.  I am advising you to know more about my or anybody's posting history before making such assumptions.  Nothing I have written, I believe, justifies treating me as if I were heterodox.  You seem to have an unfounded suspicion about my orthodoxy, however, despite nothing in this thread suggesting heterodoxy.


I don't believe I have "treated you as if [you] were heterodox". (I have wheels and chains downstairs in the dungeons that I use for that.  :furtive:)

Questions are always fair play in a venue like this. Your hair trigger move from question to accusation surprises me.

In any case, we are mostly in agreement about items, so I suggest we not overdo rattling our cages.  I have no knowledge of Japhethites so please feel free to continue your presentation without bother from me.

The Far East
« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2012, 06:54:30 PM »
Episode II, 24:28.

Look how clear his eyes are.