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Author Topic: The Converso Comeback - Hispanic crypto-Jєωs  (Read 1208 times)

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Offline rum

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The Converso Comeback - Hispanic crypto-Jєωs
« on: April 02, 2020, 05:32:17 AM »
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  • I wonder how many of these hispanics with crypto pedigree know the h0Ɩ0cαųst didn't happen. Those who don't have crypto ancestry are less likely to want to conform to Jєωιѕн power, and are more comfortable exploring anti-Jєωιѕн analysis.

    The neo-Conservative Linda Chavez is a product of marrano ancestry, as was revealed on the PBS program Finding Your Roots. Not at all shocking.

    I suspect the former Fisheaters regular, and now SuscipeDomine regular, VetusOrdo is a product of marrano ancestry. This Iberian has always avoided this forum, for good reason. He's so phony. Everything about him is phony. His Catholicism, his Islam, his Protestantism. He gives off the whiff of the Jєω dilettante.

    So many hispanics who are products of marranos. I have little doubt that most of the hispanics (and non-whites) you see in the media have a strong Jєωιѕн link, if they're not overtly Jєωιѕн.


    Quote
    The Converso Comeback

    Hispanic crypto-Jєωs use social media and DNA testing to reconnect with their heritage

    by Suzanne Selengut

    https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/the-converso-comeback

    When retired civil servant Carl Montoya arrives for prayers at Mikveh Israel ѕуηαgσgυє in Philadelphia, he has a routine. He expertly wraps tefillin, dons his Sephardic prayer shawl, and greets his many friends in the pews. The Hebrew prayers can be tricky for him, but he is slowly mastering them all, together with the rest of Jєωιѕн ritual life. As a convert to Conservative Judaism and an active member of an Orthodox ѕуηαgσgυє, Montoya has definitely broken from his past as a Catholic with deep roots in New Mexico’s historic Hispanic community. But what makes his story truly remarkable is not just that he is a Jєω by choice, but that he is a Jєω by birth.

    Like many of the around 100 million other descendants of crypto-Jєωs of Spanish-Portuguese heritage globally, Montoya became curious about family lore. He learned his ancestors were Bnei Anusim—a Hebrew term for conversos, those forced to convert to Christianity during the Spanish Inquisition—who fled from the Iberian Peninsula to what is now New Mexico. Montoya shares his heritage with many others in the American Southwest, Central and South America, Spain, and Portugal. In Spain alone, one in 20 Iberian men have DNA markers identifying them as having a Jєωιѕн background, while some 15 percent of Hispanic men in the Southwest have those markers.

    Almost 200 years after the last victim of the Inquisition was murdered in 1826, the true picture of what happened during that deadly period of Jєωιѕн history is only now emerging, thanks to the growing popularity of social media and online DNA testing services. Curious individuals can now pay a small fee to learn crucial genetic information, then head to Facebook forums such as Tracing the Tribe, where they can meet others searching for clues to the past.

    Once they have determined their links to 15th-century Spanish Jєωry, the next step is different for every individual. Some convert to one of the traditional branches of Judaism, while others identify as Jєωιѕн without feeling the need to be ratified by a rabbinic court. Still others remain members of another faith or no faith while finding new inspiration to study Judaism, or visit Israel.

    Decades after her conversion to Orthodox Judaism, Genie Milgrom, a Cuban-born author, successfully traced an unbroken maternal lineage 15 generations back, to the Jєωιѕн community in Spain in the 1500s. She says that technological advances are only one part of the push to examine the past. The last 20 years have also brought with them a cultural shift that has allowed people to explore their authentic selves, she says. “We’re a lot freer to talk about our own deep feelings,” said Milgrom in a telephone interview. But as with the h0Ɩ0cαųst, the tragic nature of the Spanish Inquisition, which began in 1478 and included the torture and public murder of Jєωs and other “non-believers,” made grappling with the pain almost impossible. Some experts feel its full magnitude has been repressed by the global Jєωιѕн community.

    Ashley Perry, former adviser to Israel’s minister of foreign affairs, heads Reconectar, a group that assists Bnei Anusim who wish to reconnect to Judaism. Perry says that many spiritual leaders of the Jєωιѕн community today are largely unaware of the “Gestapo-like existence” that led conversos to profess Christianity while risking their lives to maintain a secret Jєωιѕн life.

    Centuries later, in the remote hills of New Mexico, their cultural isolation continues. According to Schelly Talalay Dardashti, an expert on Jєωιѕн genealogy and the U.S. genealogy adviser for MyHeritage.com, “The old converso families don’t talk about it. As we say in New Mexico, the motto is: ‘Deny until you die.’” Even today, those who return make the journey alone, and many encounter disapproving family members. Montoya, who enjoys a good relationship with his family, acknowledges that elder family members have been reluctant to share: “You have to keep in mind the social patterns in the Southwest, and the discrimination even today. ‘I think they’re thinking, ‘Hey, we already have to deal with the Hispanic thing; why do we want to add this Jєωιѕн thing?’”

    “We don’t schlep our families with us,” said Milgrom. “You walk away from the Catholicism in your family, and you come to this place alone.” Most of the current Bnei Anusim are indeed on their own, motivated by a few strange family traditions coupled with a sense of feeling Jєωιѕн, says Milgrom. Montoya was middle-aged before he began asking elder family members about their memories. Those returned slowly, as if being dredged from the past. When he asked his mother about the practice of covering mirrors when mourning a death, she said the family had not observed that Jєωιѕн custom. “Then I asked my aunt, and she says: ‘Oh yeah, when your grandmother died, we covered the mirrors.’”

    Montoya later learned that his parents observed the practice of lighting candles each year at the anniversary of the death of their parents and that when sweeping the floor, they gathered the dirt in the center of the room, never near the door—a practice prevalent among Bnei Anusim. “The idea is that you didn’t want to disrespect the mezuzah on the doorpost, even though there was no mezuzah,” he explained. Perry has encountered countless variations of these customs: “I met a woman whose mother and grandmother would always slap her hand when she pointed at the night sky,” he said. Jєωs traditionally mark the end of Shabbat by the appearance of three stars. Being seen to observe Shabbat would have been a crime punishable by death, he explained.

    For Montoya and Milgrom, rediscovery of Jєωιѕн family lore either led to, or followed, intense Jєωιѕн study and conversion, but the path for Mendel Leandro, a student at Vassar College who was born in Medellin, Colombia, has been different. At birth, Leandro was given both a Spanish name and, unusually, a Yiddish one. When his parents were expecting him, his father overheard a Jєωιѕн family calling their son Mendel and decided to call his own son that name, as he felt a connection to the Jєωιѕн people. Given that unique name, it was not such a surprise when at 14, Leandro was told that his father’s side of the family had Jєωιѕн heritage.

    He took a DNA test and found a remote Jєωιѕн ancestor, and his paternal grandmother’s test revealed more Jєωιѕн relatives. That fit community lore, because many individuals from his grandmother’s village in Colombia had returned to Judaism. Leandro’s grandmother is reluctant to answer questions about her roots, though she did recall that her father would always wear a hat, a custom frequently associated with being Jєωιѕн.

    While he has not pursued formal return, Leandro’s discovery has led him to become active in Jєωιѕн life at Vassar. He says the experience has changed his views on Israel, leading him to support the Jєωιѕн state alongside a just peace that honors Palestinians and their history. “By halachic law, I am not a Jєω, because I get my ancestry from my father’s side,” he said. “But I believe it is part of my duty to honor the memory of my ancestors in some way.”

    At Vassar, others sometimes question his Jєωιѕн bona fides. “Although it’s a predominantly white, αѕнкenαzι space, and therefore I am not the best fit as a Sephardi-identifying Latino, I still enjoy each Shabbat and am so grateful for the pluralistic values, which foster a welcoming environment to Jєωs of all persuasions,” Leandro said.

    Leandro is part of a new wave of young people pushing for exploration of the past. “The younger generation first adopted the technology,” said Dardashti. Taking a DNA test is often one of the first steps taken, and it can “open a door” to further research, she added. But a door to what? “If you take someone’s epithelial cheek cells and put them under a microscope, you’re not going to see little Jєωιѕн stars,” she cautioned. Still, she says, if you have a statistically significant number of matches to people of Jєωιѕн origin, you can make the assumption of Jєωιѕн ancestry.

    The most popular choice for DNA testing is an autosomal test, which goes back about eight generations and is administered by companies such as MyHeritage, 23andMe, and Ancestry. These tests offer a percentage estimate for ethnicity, although the categories vary from company to company. DNA becomes less defined with the passage of generations, so it is difficult to detect Jєωιѕн heritage from a distant grandparent who contributes just a small proportion of DNA. Plus, DNA can skip generations, according to Milgrom, and some of these tests can be confusing, convincing people with significant Jєωιѕн heritage that they have none, and vice versa.

    Beyond autosomal testing, Family Tree DNA, the most popular DNA service for those seeking Jєωιѕн roots, offers Y-DNA testing, in which a male can test for his haplogroup, and mtDNA testing, passed along the matrilineal line to both men and women. If family lore or DNA tells a convincing story, the next step is checking records from the period before, during, and after the Inquisition. Existing notarial and church records often include the names of individuals both before and after their official conversions to Christianity. However, Milgrom explains, records often age poorly and “are like wet tissue paper,” and employing a researcher with the necessary skills to decode them is expensive.

    Advocates of the Bnei Anusim are tackling these problems from several vantage points. Milgrom’s forthcoming project, funded by an anonymous donor, will offer free digitized Inquisition records, to become available later this year, while Dardashti is working to making other records equally accessible.

    Reconnectar, in Israel, is working with the Israeli government and rabbinate to help individuals return to Judaism, and on creating support networks for those in the exploration phase. A matching service, reminiscent of an online dating site, will help connect Bnei Anusim to Jєωιѕн friends who practice in ways that interest them, with an emphasis on involving those from similar Sephardic backgrounds.

    However, Orthodox and many Conservative bodies require the equivalent of a conversion process, even though many individuals already feel they are Jєωιѕн—and some of them might even qualify as such from a halachic perspective. Albert Gabbai, an Orthodox rabbi who leads the historic Mikveh Israel ѕуηαgσgυє in Philadelphia, has assisted people of crypto-Jєωιѕн heritage. “Sometimes, we don’t call it a conversion,” Gabbai said. “We call it a returning.”

    Although some find the process too rigorous or arbitrary, Gabbai defends it as an effort to preserve the authenticity of Jєωιѕн practice. “Once sincerity has been established, such a person comes under the wings of the Divine Presence,” said Gabbai. If so, there are several million waiting for those proverbial wings. Perry, of Reconectar, said that working with such people is “the challenge of the Jєωιѕн people in the 21st century,” because, he said, “there is nothing else that even comes close to the potential of tens of millions of people who want to reconnect to the Jєωιѕн people.”

    ***

    Like this article? Sign up for our Daily Digest to get Tablet Magazine’s new content in your inbox each morning.

    Suzanne Selengut writes feature stories about global Jєωιѕн issues and the arts. She is based in New York City.
    Some would have people believe that I'm a deceiver because I've used various handles on different Catholic forums. They only know this because I've always offered such information, unprompted. Various troll accounts on FE. Ben on SuscipeDomine. Patches on ABLF 1.0 and TeDeum. GuitarPlucker, Busillis, HatchC, and Rum on Cathinfo.


    Offline poche

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    Re: The Converso Comeback - Hispanic crypto-Jєωs
    « Reply #1 on: April 03, 2020, 05:43:07 AM »
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  • I would suggest that if any Catholic should find that they had Jєωιѕн ancestors that they should thank God for the gift of the Catholic Faith and to pray for their ancestors that if there are any of them in Purgatory they receive an earlier departure than they would otherwise have had.  


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: The Converso Comeback - Hispanic crypto-Jєωs
    « Reply #2 on: April 03, 2020, 06:35:34 AM »
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  • So many hispanics who are products of marranos. I have little doubt that most of the hispanics (and non-whites) you see in the media have a strong Jєωιѕн link, if they're not overtly Jєωιѕн.
    What's it matter when at least 90% of Catholics around the world are just baptized at birth seculars? Less than 4% of French go to mass on Sundays and the rest of Western Europe is under 8%. And even if they go to mass, it is the Novus Ordo.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline VO2 Max

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    Re: The Converso Comeback - Hispanic crypto-Jєωs
    « Reply #3 on: April 03, 2020, 07:04:05 AM »
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  • I would suggest that if any Catholic should find that they had Jєωιѕн ancestors that they should thank God for the gift of the Catholic Faith and to pray for their ancestors that if there are any of them in Purgatory they receive an earlier departure than they would otherwise have had. 

    You're obviously not a Catholic. Why are you on this forum? No Jєω is in purgatory because no Jєω can be saved. That's infallibly defined Catholic dogma.

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: The Converso Comeback - Hispanic crypto-Jєωs
    « Reply #4 on: April 03, 2020, 07:36:51 AM »
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  • Wasn’t Jesus a Jєω?
    May God bless you and keep you


    Offline VO2 Max

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    Re: The Converso Comeback - Hispanic crypto-Jєωs
    « Reply #5 on: April 03, 2020, 07:44:19 AM »
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  • Quote from: Viva Cristo Rey on Fri Apr 03 2020 07:36:51 GMT-0500 (Central Standard Time)
    Wasn’t Jesus a Jєω?

    You've been on this forum for how long...and you use the dilapidated Jєω card "Wasn't Jesus was a Jєω?"

    You're either insidious or completely ignorant if you can't see the ontological difference between Jesus Christ and those who rejected and conspired to crucify Him.

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: The Converso Comeback - Hispanic crypto-Jєωs
    « Reply #6 on: April 03, 2020, 07:45:53 AM »
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  • Wasn’t Jesus a Jєω?
    This is typical of the modern confusion around Jєωs and Judaism.  No, Our Lord was not a Jєω in the sense under discussion.

    Our Lord followed Old Testament Judaism, a genuine religion from God, although incomplete.  Our Lord was the entire point of OT Judaism, its consummation.  After His death and resurrection, His Church became the genuine religion through which God reveals Himself to the world.

    What is now called Judaism, is a man-made religion based on the тαℓмυd, not the Old Testament.  The Judaism of the conversos was this тαℓмυdic Judaism.

    Offline poche

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    Re: The Converso Comeback - Hispanic crypto-Jєωs
    « Reply #7 on: April 03, 2020, 11:22:05 PM »
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  • You're obviously not a Catholic. Why are you on this forum? No Jєω is in purgatory because no Jєω can be saved. That's infallibly defined Catholic dogma.
    Unless you have a special revelation from God you really don't know that. Some Jєωs are invincibly ignorant of the Gospel. There could be some who died with a desire of becoming Catholic and who would have had they if given the opportunity. One day you could be sitting in Purgatory saying to yourself, "Oh if only someone would pray for me."


    Offline poche

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    Re: The Converso Comeback - Hispanic crypto-Jєωs
    « Reply #8 on: April 03, 2020, 11:24:32 PM »
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  • This is typical of the modern confusion around Jєωs and Judaism.  No, Our Lord was not a Jєω in the sense under discussion.

    Our Lord followed Old Testament Judaism, a genuine religion from God, although incomplete.  Our Lord was the entire point of OT Judaism, its consummation.  After His death and resurrection, His Church became the genuine religion through which God reveals Himself to the world.

    What is now called Judaism, is a man-made religion based on the тαℓмυd, not the Old Testament.  The Judaism of the conversos was this тαℓмυdic Judaism.
    Actually the Judaism of the conversos can also be like that of St Teresa of Avila, the grandaughter of a converted Jєω.

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: The Converso Comeback - Hispanic crypto-Jєωs
    « Reply #9 on: April 04, 2020, 06:08:34 AM »
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  • Actually the Judaism of the conversos can also be like that of St Teresa of Avila, the grandaughter of a converted Jєω.
    No.  St. Teresa was not a Jєω of any kind.  Catholics are not Jєωs, no matter what their ancestry.  Her grandfather was convicted of returning to Jєωιѕн practice after baptism.  He was a heretic, guilty of the heresy of Judaizing.  Before baptism he was a тαℓмυdic Jєω, not the same religion as the Judaism of Our Lord.  

    Offline VO2 Max

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    Re: The Converso Comeback - Hispanic crypto-Jєωs
    « Reply #10 on: April 04, 2020, 07:55:08 AM »
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  • Unless you have a special revelation from God you really don't know that. Some Jєωs are invincibly ignorant of the Gospel. There could be some who died with a desire of becoming Catholic and who would have had they if given the opportunity. One day you could be sitting in Purgatory saying to yourself, "Oh if only someone would pray for me."

    You talk like a serpent. Pope Eugene IV and the Council of Florence infallibly defined no Jєω has salvation. Desire is needed for water baptism to be valid, whether by the adult receiving water Baptism or the Godparent of the infant being water Baptized, and that is defined by the Council of Trent, not merely the Catechism. This desire is the only desire that exists which is necessary for valid water Baptisms, which is the only Baptism that exists. The original text and English translation, Canons and Decrees of the Council of Trent, by Fr. H. J. Schroeder, O.P. is the actual Council of Trent's written decrees and records. It explains:

    "Baptism of desire" takes effect at the pouring of the water - at the sacrament itself.


    Priest:  "N., do you wish to be baptized?"

    N.:  "I do"

    (or the Godparents for an infant)

    - the catechumen has to indicate the will or wish to be baptized, then the sacrament's form and matter follow.


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: The Converso Comeback - Hispanic crypto-Jєωs
    « Reply #11 on: April 04, 2020, 09:36:12 AM »
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  • What's it matter when at least 90% of Catholics around the world are just baptized at birth seculars? Less than 4% of French go to mass on Sundays and the rest of Western Europe is under 8%. And even if they go to mass, it is the Novus Ordo.
    Let me add something Theodore Roosevelt said when he paid a visit to South America at the turn of the 20th century:

    "While these countries remain Catholic," he said, "we will not be able to dominate them."

    The same applies to the over 1 billion baptized "Catholics" in the world today. As long as they remain seculars, they will continue to be dominated by the world (by the Jєωs, Masons, NWO, Communists, Vatican II religion...…... )
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Meg

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    Re: The Converso Comeback - Hispanic crypto-Jєωs
    « Reply #12 on: April 04, 2020, 12:54:11 PM »
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  • Let me add something Theodore Roosevelt said when he paid a visit to South America at the turn of the 20th century:

    "While these countries remain Catholic," he said, "we will not be able to dominate them."

    The same applies to the over 1 billion baptized "Catholics" in the world today. As long as they remain seculars, they will continue to be dominated by the world (by the Jєωs, Masons, NWO, Communists, Vatican II religion...…... )

    Agreed. The Freemasons here in the U.S. helped to foment revolution after revolution in Mexico after separation from Spain around the year 1800. Before 1800, Mexico had a higher standard of living than the U.S., for the average citizen. But after independence, it all changed. The Freemasons in particular didn't want a strong county to border the U.S. There were freemasons in Mexico too that helped with the revolutions, which weakened Mexico. Freemasons hate Catholicism. No doubt that there were Jєωs working on all sides to try to control them. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline poche

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    Re: The Converso Comeback - Hispanic crypto-Jєωs
    « Reply #13 on: April 05, 2020, 02:05:45 AM »
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  • No.  St. Teresa was not a Jєω of any kind.  Catholics are not Jєωs, no matter what their ancestry.  Her grandfather was convicted of returning to Jєωιѕн practice after baptism.  He was a heretic, guilty of the heresy of Judaizing.  Before baptism he was a тαℓмυdic Jєω, not the same religion as the Judaism of Our Lord.  
    I agree. Catholics are not Jєωs at all. However there are some people who socially do not accept that conversion. There was a practice of discrimination against the conversos even though they had converted. There are people who post on this forum who act in a similar manner, as if to say that Jєωs who convert to the Catholic Faith are really not sincere. 
    It is very likely that St Teresa's grandfather wasn't properly catechized when he was baptized. The purpose of the Inquisition was really to help those people who had converted to understand what it means to be Catholic. Their purpose was that he be a better Catholic, not to treat him as a criminal.      

    Offline poche

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    Re: The Converso Comeback - Hispanic crypto-Jєωs
    « Reply #14 on: April 05, 2020, 02:08:02 AM »
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  • You talk like a serpent. Pope Eugene IV and the Council of Florence infallibly defined no Jєω has salvation. Desire is needed for water baptism to be valid, whether by the adult receiving water Baptism or the Godparent of the infant being water Baptized, and that is defined by the Council of Trent, not merely the Catechism. This desire is the only desire that exists which is necessary for valid water Baptisms, which is the only Baptism that exists. The original text and English translation, Canons and Decrees of the Council of Trent, by Fr. H. J. Schroeder, O.P. is the actual Council of Trent's written decrees and records. It explains:

    "Baptism of desire" takes effect at the pouring of the water - at the sacrament itself.


    Priest:  "N., do you wish to be baptized?"

    N.:  "I do"

    (or the Godparents for an infant)

    - the catechumen has to indicate the will or wish to be baptized, then the sacrament's form and matter follow.
    From the Baltimore Catechism;
    Q. 510. Is it ever possible for one to be saved who does not know the Catholic Church to be the true Church?
    A. It is possible for one to be saved who does not know the Catholic Church to be the true Church, provided that person:
    1.(1) Has been validly baptized;
    2.(2) Firmly believes the religion he professes and practices to be the true religion, and
    3.(3) Dies without the guilt of mortal sin on his soul.

    Q. 511. Why do we say it is only possible for a person to be saved who does not know the CatholicChurch to be the true Church?
    A. We say it is only possible for a person to be saved who does not know the Catholic Church to be the true Church, because the necessary conditions are not often found, especially that of dying in a state of grace without making use of the Sacrament of Penance.

    https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resources/catechism/baltimore-catechism/lesson-11-on-the-church