In the anonymous subforum, Jaynek made the following outrageous assertions:

I do not believe that Charismatics are heretics.

The Charismatic Renewal movement within the Catholic Church has been recognized by the post-conciliar popes as an authentic work of the Holy Spirit.  That is my position.  

The second quote is especially dumbfounding, as it uses the phrase "post-Conciliar popes," a phrase that usually connotates a recognition that the popes since V2 have been, if not false claimants to the papacy, certainly men of questionable personal orthodoxy and manifestly untrustworthy due to complicity to one degree or another with the Modernist novelties and errors de facto promulgated by the "pastoral" Council (not the least of which being the abominable Novus Ordo).

But here is Jaynek using the phrase "post-Conciliar popes" as a sure and safe sign not only of the mere acceptability of the "Charismatic Renewal" movement, but that it is, in fact, "an authentic work of the Holy Spirit."

This Novus Ordite ultramontanism of the worst sort. It is just this kind of rationality-suppressing elevation of papal infallibility to the level of oracular divinity that would lead "Catholic" ignoramuses to accept any pap and nonsense conceivable as long as the "post-Conciliar popes" smile beneficenty upon it.

Well, Jayne, what about what the pre-Conciliar popes have to say? What about what pre-Conciliar saints and doctors and Councils have to say about things like this? What about forming one's conscience and intellect according to these traditional sources and applying that developed Sensus Catholicus to these novelties? That's what being a Traditional Catholic is all about isn't it? A well-Catechized child of 9 or 10 could easily see that the "Charismatic" movement, whatever else it may be, is not Catholic. Such a child doesn't need a parent, priest, or pope to tell him that any more than he needs a parent, priest, or pope to tell him that grass is green and the sky is blue. But here you are, a grandmother, ready to believe that the sky is green and grass is blue because "the post Conciliar popes say so."

I mean, do you recognize any problem at all with the post-Conciliar popes, Jayne? Or is Paul VI more or less as good in your eyes as Pius V? Do you even have any problem at all with the Council? Is the abominable Novus Ordo just fine in your eyes? According to the "post-Conciliar popes," Vatican II was "an authentic work of the Holy Spirit;" according to them, the Novus Ordo was a boon from Heaven itself, with wonderful spiritual fruits being reaped everywhere and all the time; according to them, we're in the "New Springtime" of the Catholic Church. So do you accept all of those assertions with the same irrational, fideistic zeal, despite the fact that they are manifestly, grossly, unquestionably,objectively untrue?

The "Catholic Charismatic" movement was founded in the very heart of the immediate years of post-Conciliar chaos. It is distinguished by two things: a "style" of prayer and liturgy that is unquestionably Protestant in nature; and a novel doctrine, totally alien to Catholic theology, about "Baptism of the Spirit," an objectively heretical warping of Catholic Sacramental theology, particularly with respect to the Sacraments of Baptism and Confirmation. At their prayer meetings and even their "Masses" (such as they are), the Charismatics engage in such totally non-Catholic behavior as speaking in tongues, collapsing on the floor and convulsing, leaping about spasmodically, blasphemously attributing such pointless, carnal, sensual actions to the Third Person of the Blessed Trinity.

Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, right Jayne? Well what "Law of Belief" are Catholics going to follow when they follow a "Law of Prayer" indistinguishable from that of Pentecostal Protestant heretics?

The Charismatic "Movement" found its Curial champion in Cardinal Leo Suenens, one of the rankest, vilest Modernist of the Conciliar Revolution, as well as a man credibly asserted to be a Freemason (codename "Lesu") and participant in perverted diabolical rites. We're talking about a man who once uttered this damnable, diabolical blasphemy:

Men and Christians .... have made an idol of God, a caricature of God. Before condemning Atheism, it serves to know what is the God that it wants to destroy.

Let us take a moment to examine some of the current images of God, which were very common a short time ago ....

That God which is found in the beginning as an architect and engineer in repose, like one who explains and covers the ignorance and incapacity of man is also the one that presently guarantees the established order, the status quo, who shields authority with divine right and protects the strong against revolutions, who requires patience from the poor, who impedes social reforms: He is the opium of the people.

We can analyze diverse caricatures of God. To mention just one: let us think of the caricature of the God as Providence who “providentially” allowed us to avoid some misfortune, but who permitted the same misfortune to happen to someone else. It is a type of second-rate providence ....

It is really understandable that this God should die so that the world lives, and also so that God lives.

(Leo-Josef Suenens, "Cristinaismo sem Deus," in Cristianismo sem Cristo?, Caxias: Edições Paulinas, 1970, pp. 63-66).

http://www.traditioninaction.org/ProgressivistDoc/A_039_SuenensGod.htm

This is the hierarchical guarantor of your "authentic work of the Holy Spirit," Jayne.

Have you eyes with which to see and ears with which to hear? Then see and hear what you call "an authentic work of the Holy Spirit":

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/embed/pk8VH5pHWXA[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/embed/SFG-8YDTcIc[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/embed/-k7Vz4UGieg[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/embed/LwQZoLEGXyE[/youtube]

The currently-reigning post Conciliar pope has helpfully gone on record so as to illustrate just to what end he believes this "authentic work of the Holy Spirit" is working:

"You shall bear witness to a spiritual ecuмenism with all those brothers and sisters of other churches and ecclesial communities who believe in Jesus as Lord and Savior."
"Remember: The Charismatic Renewal is ecuмenical in nature ... The Catholic renewal movement would be about what the Holy Spirit works in the other churches' (1 Mechelen 5.3)."
"This is great. I would also like to thank, because they are already organizing the great jubilee of 2017."
"And I expect you to celebrate all their charismatics in the world together with the Pope your big anniversary at Pentecost 2017 on St. Peter's Square! Thank you! "
http://eponymousflower.blogspot.com/2014/08/pope-francis-recommends-charismatics.html

Do you concur, Jayne?

Another of the post-Conciliar popes pointed out the other thrust of the movement, the use of it as a mobilization of the laity, when he described it as:

"a greater attention to the voice of the Spirit through the acceptance of charisms and the promotion of the laity." (Tertio Millennio Adveniente, 46)

Let's see what the last of the great sainted PRE-Conciliar popes had to say about this notion:

Hence, studying more closely the ideas of the Modernists, evolution is described as resulting from the conflict of two forces, one of them tending towards progress, the other towards conservation. The conserving force in the Church is tradition, and tradition is represented by religious authority, and this both by right and in fact; for by right it is in the very nature of authority to protect tradition, and, in fact, for authority, raised as it is above the contingencies of life, feels hardly, or not at all, the spurs of progress. The progressive force, on the contrary, which responds to the inner needs lies in the individual consciences and ferments there - especially in such of them as are in most intimate contact with life. Note here, Venerable Brethren, the appearance already of that most pernicious doctrine which would make of the laity a factor of progress in the Church.
- Pascendi Dominici Gregis, 27.

You say that Charismatics are not heretics, Jayne (full stop, no distinction between formal and material having been suggested or proffered by you). This ridiculous, scandalous assertion requires - nay, demands - an explanation. Before you give it, ruminate on your public scandals and errors before - the most egregious of which being your public assent on FE to the outrageously diabolical notion that elective surgical mutilation of a man's generative organs to approximate those of a woman's is possible and even licit due to "sub-Secretum Vatican Docuмents." Ruminate also on your subsequent promises to this forum that you would speak less in the future and listen and learn more, a promise which you have failed to adhere to by your publicly standing by your absurd and scandalous assertions given above. Ruminate finally on the words of St. Paul in Sacred Scripture:

Let women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted them to speak, but to be subject, as also the law saith. But if they would learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is a shame for a woman to speak in the church.

First Epistle of St. Paul to the Corinthians xiv:xxxiv-xxxv

Charismatics are big on being inspired by the Holy Spirit. I read on CAF that a person claiming to be a Charsmatic went to the TLM for the first time. People had tried to prevent her from going. She reported that she very much felt the presence of teh Holy Spirit at the TLM.  

Link (SSPX)

Summary

The Catholic Charismatic Movement is a blighted tree bearing poisonous fruit, sown by the Devil among Protestants and transplanted into the Church after Vatican II. The delirium of contemporary Churchmen has watered it, and the lack of an adequate Catholic formation among priests and laity has cleared and tilled the fertile soil in which it has grown. More people eat of its deadly fruit yearly, and the vulnerable young, so eager for the profound knowledge of God and the sense of the supernatural denied them by the Conciliar Church, are especially at risk. A generation of children is growing up thinking of Charismatics as perfectly normal (or even superior) Catholics.

This fruit is truly a seed of destruction and one of the most perilous fruits offered to man since the first fruit offered to the first Eve by the same serpent. May the new Eve, the Blessed Virgin Mary, to whom it has been given to crush the serpent’s head, intercede for the Church and free the world from the peril in which it now lies as a result of the Catholic Charismatic Movement!





Snip from; Who Shall Ascend?
Ch 19 Parting Words
B. You Bishops

....You [Bishops] have allowed your churches to be used as forums and meeting places for known Revolutionaries and Communist agitators. You have encouraged such insidious programs as the Cursillo, Renew, "marriage encounters," "sex education," and, the most blasphemous of all, "Pentecostalism," (also referred to as "the Charismatic Movement").

Concerning this last, any Catholic with a high school level religious education can recognize that this activity is based solely on emotion, feelings, impressions, and crowd delusion, and is against all true doctrine and devotion. But you know what they do not, that the Church issued numerous condemnations of this nadir of Protestantism over a century ago. Bad enough that you bishops have tolerated this foolishness, but a number of you have espoused it, and even participated in widely publicized gatherings, thus bringing immeasurable disgrace upon the Church, and embarrassing those of your people who have retained some degree of sanity. And one of you is the Bishop of Rome......






Link (CFN)
"Catholic" Charismatic Movement is not Catholic
"TO SPEAK IN TONGUES YOU HAD NEVER LEARNED WAS, AND IS, A RECOGNIZED SYMPTOM IN ALLEGED CASES OF DIABOLIC POSSESSION." (Msgr. Ronald Knox - Enthusiasm)

The SSPX article that Stubborn linked to had this paragraph:

Despite Charismatic attempts to make personal endorsements of high-ranking Church officials into official approbation by the Church, no such approbation exists. Popes Paul VI and John Paul II have received Charismatics many times in audience and spoken of them in their addresses on many occasions; in 1990, the Pontifical Council for the Laity recognized the Catholic Fraternity of Covenant Communities (an international Charismatic organization) as a private association of the laity;7  nonetheless, no official pronouncement has been made on the CCR. Charismatics, like all liberal Catholics, tend to ascribe "creeping infallibility" to unofficial papal pronouncements in their favor as much as they disregard authoritative condemnations of other liberal practices and beliefs.

This was written in 1998.  Is it still true that all the papal pronouncements about it have been unofficial and there is no official teaching? I would like more information about papal statements on this subject and their authority. Any suggestions as to where I can find this?

Reading this article was especially helpful for me to understand how shocking my statement was and why people are making such a big deal about it.  I now get why some have said it was ban-worthy.  I never understood this subject before.  Discussions I've seen on other trad forums about this just seemed to be pictures of how silly Charismatics look and posters laughing at them.  I have never before read a thorough explanation of the theological problems with it.  

Thank you all very much.

From a source not condoned by this forum, therefore I will not include the link which would potentially advertise the site, nonetheless, a great analysis in the following quote:

God allows the Devil to take people over in these Charismatic services because by partaking in them people are essentially saying that the sacraments of the Catholic Church, the seven instituted by Jesus Christ, are not sufficient. They are professing, therefore, that they need a new set of man-made rites – rites which are outside the sacramental system – in order to really receive “the spirit.” By participation in such “rites,” they are essentially participating in a new religion in order to gain access to “the spirit” outside the means specifically set up by Christ. As a consequence, these Charismatic “rites” become new “sacraments” of a false religion which give access to the evil, not the Holy, spirit.

Charismatics are big on being inspired by the Holy Spirit. I read on CAF that a person claiming to be a Charsmatic went to the TLM for the first time. People had tried to prevent her from going. She reported that she very much felt the presence of teh Holy Spirit at the TLM.  

Did she bust a move?  Get jiggy wid it?

[youtube]http://youtube.com/embed/p_31mMCUQ9c[/youtube]

A well-Catechized child of 9 or 10 could easily see that the "Charismatic" movement, whatever else it may be, is not Catholic. Such a child doesn't need a parent, priest, or pope to tell him that any more than he needs a parent, priest, or pope to tell him that grass is green and the sky is blue.

Back in our days of flirting with the NO, my family and I were attending the NOM one Sunday when the recessional song started up. It was awful, of course: drums, guitar, etc. Our two-year-old held his hands over his ears and started shaking his head from left to right. Yes, even a toddler recognizes the NO BS. We never returned. And the sad thing is, this wasn't even a meeting of "charismatics"; it was just Sunday "Mass."

EDITED: Content