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Offline DecemRationis

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The CE on the Athanasian Creed
« on: September 10, 2010, 08:29:15 AM »
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  • The Athanasian Creed:


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    Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith. Which Faith except everyone do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the Catholic Faith is this, that we worship one God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity. Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son and of the Holy Ghost is all One, the Glory Equal, the Majesty Co-Eternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father Uncreate, the Son Uncreate, and the Holy Ghost Uncreate. The Father Incomprehensible, theSon Incomprehensible, and the Holy Ghost Incomprehensible. The Father Eternal, the Son Eternal, and the Holy Ghost Eternal and yet they are not Three Eternals but One Eternal. As also there are not Three Uncreated, nor Three Incomprehensibles, but One Uncreated, and One Uncomprehensible. So likewise the Father is Almighty, the SonAlmighty, and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not Three Almighties but One Almighty.

    So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not Three Gods, but One God. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not Three Lords but One Lord. For, like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by Himself to be God and Lord, so are we forbidden by the Catholic Religion to say, there be Three Gods or Three Lords. The Father is made of none, neithercreated, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created, but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father, and of the Son neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.

    So there is One Father, not Three Fathers; one Son, not Three Sons; One Holy Ghost, not Three Holy Ghosts. And in thisTrinity none is afore or after Other, None is greater or less than Another, but the whole Three Persons are Co-eternal together, and Co-equal. So that in all things, as is aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to beworshipped. He therefore that will be saved, must thus think of the Trinity.

    Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting Salvation, that he also believe rightly the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess, that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man.

    God, of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the substance of His mother, born into the world. Perfect God and Perfect Man, of a reasonable Soul and human Flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His Manhood. Who, although He be God and Man, yet He is not two, but One Christ. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into Flesh, but by taking of the Manhood into God. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by Unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one Man, so God and Man is one Christ. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into Hell, rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into Heaven, He sitteth on the right hand of the Father, God Almighty, from whence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies, and shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting, and they that have done evil into everlasting fire. This is the Catholic Faith, which except a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.


    I want to reference the Catholic Encyclopedia article on the Creed, particularly in light of some recent threads where problems with the CE have been brought up. The CE notes about the Creed, among other things:

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    The "damnatory", or "minatory clauses", are the pronouncements contained in the symbol, of the penalties which follow the rejection of what is there proposed for our belief. It opens with one of them: "Whosoever will be saved, before all things it isnecessary that he hold the Catholic Faith". The same is expressed in the verses beginning: "Furthermore, it is necessary" etc., and "For the right Faith is" etc., and finally in the concluding verse: "This is the Catholic Faith, which except a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved". Just as the Creed states in a very plain and precise way what the Catholic Faith is concerning the important doctrines of the Trinity and the Incarnation, so it asserts with equal plainness and precision what will happen to those who do not faithfully and steadfastly believe in these revealed truths. They are but the credal equivalent of Our Lord's words: "He that believeth not shall be condemned", and apply, as is evident, only to the culpable and wilful rejection of Christ's words and teachings. The absolute necessity of accepting the revealed word of God, under the stern penalties here threatened, is so intolerable to a powerful class in the Anglican church, that frequent attempts have been made to eliminate the Creed from the public services of that Church. The Upper House of Convocation of Canterbury has already affirmed that these clauses, in their prima facie meaning, go beyond what is warranted by Holy Scripture. In view of the words of Our Lord quoted above, there should be nothing startling in the statement of our duty to believe what we know is the testimony and teaching of Christ, nor in the serious sin we commit in wilfully refusing to accept it, nor, finally, in the punishments that will be inflicted on those who culpably persist in their sin. It is just this last that the damnatory clauses proclaim. From a dogmatic standpoint, the merely historical question of the authorship of the Creed, or of the time it made its appearance, is of secondary consideration. The fact alone that it is approved by the Church as expressing its mind on the fundamental truths with which it deals, is all we need to know.


    I disagree with the CE that the 'damnatory" clauses, "as is evident" (as if saying makes it so), only apply to the culpable and willful rejection of Christ's words and teachings. And I submit that the Anglicans didn't read them the same way as the author(s) of the CE. The question I would have for the authors of the CE article: Did you really believe that the Anglicans had a problem with the damnation of one who culpably and willfully rejects Christ's words and teachings, or that an assertion that such a one was not saved was unscriptural?

    I say no, and that the Angilcans at least knew darn well what the 'damnatory' clauses of the creed meant: one must have this Catholic faith as a necessity to salvation; without this faith, one cannot be saved, no matter if the lack of this necessary faith is willful or culpable or not.

    DR

    The practice of the Church has always been the same, as is shown by the unanimous teaching of the Fathers, who were wont to hold as outside Catholic communion, and alien to the Church, whoever would recede in the least degree from any point of doctrine proposed by her authoritative Magisterium . . . Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum

    Offline Matto

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    The CE on the Athanasian Creed
    « Reply #1 on: September 10, 2010, 09:10:24 AM »
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  • Quote from: DecemRationis
    one must have this Catholic faith as a necessity to salvation; without this faith, one cannot be saved, no matter if the lack of this necessary faith is willful or culpable or not.


    I agree with this completely, DR.
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    Offline Belloc

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    The CE on the Athanasian Creed
    « Reply #2 on: September 10, 2010, 09:11:50 AM »
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  • Most people today beleive what the believe as it is what they have been taught for yrs, often since birth and they go no further.Most Prots are indifferent, in that "all are saved no matter what religion they practice" sorta thing. Most go no further as most people, in general, not not that intellectual, inquisitive and most are apathetic.

    do my job a few yrs, you will see this, most need to have their hands held, butt wiped for them and are so dumbeddown, it is like dealing with a 2 yr old, or worse, so ignorance abounds and God is likely  :cry: and  :really-mad2: ,but likely has more mercy then ever, as we are dumber as a people then ever

    what you are talking about is beyond 99% of people in the world to think about, talk about,etc....
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline Matto

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    The CE on the Athanasian Creed
    « Reply #3 on: September 10, 2010, 09:21:02 AM »
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  • As for God having more mercy than ever, I would guess that He is merciful beyond our comprehension. Since supernatural faith is necessary for salvation, I would guess that God provides this supernatural faith to those He wishes to save in His mercy. I hope this happens very frequently.
    In a Station of the Metro
    The apparition of these faces in the crowd;
    Petals on a wet, black bough.

    Offline Belloc

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    The CE on the Athanasian Creed
    « Reply #4 on: September 10, 2010, 09:47:31 AM »
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  • me to, must "trust and Obey"
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic


    Offline stevusmagnus

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    The CE on the Athanasian Creed
    « Reply #5 on: September 12, 2010, 12:48:36 AM »
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  • The old CE was apparently penned by a legion of authors, so you have to check each article to see who wrote it. I've come across some doozies in there. It is a shame that we can't even trust a CE written in the early 1900's, but then again that is about the time the Modernists went underground. Some of them, apparently spent their free time subtly penning their error into CE articles.

     

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