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Author Topic: the CCC  (Read 843 times)

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Offline h1478971

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the CCC
« on: July 10, 2011, 04:32:25 PM »
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  • What is the deal on the Catechism of the Catholic Church? Is it legit and safe for trads or should it be shunned?


    Offline clare

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    the CCC
    « Reply #1 on: July 10, 2011, 05:28:44 PM »
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  • It's safe for well informed trads, who ought to be able to recognise its novelties, such as paras 840-841.

    It can be useful for pointing out to liberals that the Church still teaches things they don't like.

    But it is so full of Vatican II citations that it will be worthless once VII is consigned to where it belongs.


    Offline TKGS

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    the CCC
    « Reply #2 on: July 10, 2011, 06:04:50 PM »
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  • If, on the other hand, you're reading it to learn the faith, it's pretty much worthless.

    Offline Daegus

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    the CCC
    « Reply #3 on: July 10, 2011, 06:19:26 PM »
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  • Most of it is good, some of it is rubbish. Non-trads will not be able to tell the difference because they, more often than not, cannot tell travesty from truth and believe the heresies spewed from the second Vatican council as being authoritative.

    Because it is goodness mixed with rubbish, you should probably avoid it altogether. I'd recommend getting the catechism of the council of Trent, if I even knew what was written in it besides what I see on the internet regarding God's nature. (At the same time, because it came from the council of Trent, I do believe you can trust it)
    For those who I have unjustly offended, please forgive me. Please disregard my posts where I lacked charity and you will see that I am actually a very nice person. Disregard my opinions on "NFP", "Baptism of Desire/Blood" and the changes made to the sacra

    Offline ajpirc

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    the CCC
    « Reply #4 on: July 10, 2011, 08:44:23 PM »
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  • Let's compare a section from the Roman Catechism (Trent) and a section from the CCC concerning those who are in/out of the Church. Remember, Vatican II was not infallibly define dogma. To those who say it was infallible, they say it only repeated previously defined Catholic dogma. Let's see if they correspond.

    Catechism of the Catholic Church:

    Quote
    Who belongs to the Catholic Church?

    836
    "All men are called to this catholic unity of the People of God. . . . And to it, in different ways, belong or are ordered: the Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ, and finally all mankind, called by God's grace to salvation."

    838
    "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter." Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church." With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord's Eucharist."


    Roman Catechism:

    Quote
    The Members Of The Church Militant

    The Church militant is composed of two classes of persons, the good and the bad, both professing the same faith and partaking of the same Sacraments, yet differing in their manner of life and morality.

    The good are those who are linked together not only by the profession of the same faith, and the participation of the same Sacraments, but also by the spirit of grace and the bond of charity. Of these St. Paul says: The Lord knoweth who are his. Who they are that compose this class we also may remotely conjecture, but we can by no means pronounce with certainty. Hence Christ the Saviour does not speak of this portion of His Church when He refers us to the Church and commands us to hear and to obey her. As this part of the Church is unknown, how could we ascertain with certainty whose decision to recur to, whose authority to obey?

    The Church, therefore, as the Scriptures and the writings of the Saints testify, includes within her fold the good and the bad; and it was in this sense that St. Paul spoke of one body and one spirit. Thus understood, the Church is known and is compared to a city built on a mountain, and visible from every side. As all must yield obedience to her authority, it is necessary that she may?be known by all.

    That the Church is composed of the good and the bad we learn from many parables contained in the Gospel. Thus, the kingdom of heaven, that is, the Church militant, is compared to a net cast into the sea, to a field in which tares were sown with the good grain, to a threshing floor on which the grain is mixed up with the chaff, and also to ten virgins, some of whom were wise, and some foolish. And long before, we trace a figure and resemblance of this Church in the ark of Noah, which contained not only clean, but also unclean animals.

    But although the Catholic faith uniformly and truly teaches that the good and the bad belong to the Church, yet the same faith declares that the condition of both is very different. The wicked are contained in the Church, as the chaff is mingled with the grain on the threshing floor, or as dead members sometimes remain attached to a living body.


    Those Who Are Not Members Of The Church

    Hence there are but three classes of persons excluded from the Church's pale: infidels, heretics and schismatics, and excommunicated persons. Infidels are outside the Church because they never belonged to, and never knew the Church, and were never made partakers of any of her Sacraments. Heretics and schismatics are excluded from the Church, because they have separated from her and belong to her only as deserters belong to the army from which they have deserted. It is not, however, to be denied that they are still subject to the jurisdiction of the Church, inasmuch as they may be called before her tribunals, punished and anathematised. Finally, excommunicated persons are not members of the Church, because they have been cut off by her sentence from the number of her children and belong not to her communion until they repent.

    But with regard to the rest, however wicked and evil they may be, it is certain that they still belong to the Church: Of this the faithful are frequently to be reminded, in order to be convinced that, were even the lives of her ministers debased by crime, they are still within the Church, and therefore lose nothing of their power.



    "If I saw an Angel and a priest, I would bend my knee first to the priest and then to the Angel." --St. Francis of Assisi (later quoted by St. John Vianney)

    "We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of ev


    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    the CCC
    « Reply #5 on: August 05, 2011, 11:02:36 AM »
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  • Quote from: LittleArrows


    Get a life.
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.