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Author Topic: THE CASE AGAINST PIUS XII  (Read 1860 times)

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Offline curiouscatholic23

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THE CASE AGAINST PIUS XII
« on: October 23, 2011, 08:16:19 PM »
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  • Offline Vladimir

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    THE CASE AGAINST PIUS XII
    « Reply #1 on: October 23, 2011, 08:18:49 PM »
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  • Quote from: curiouscatholic23



    Pius XII Schismatically Subjected Himself to Antipopes Leo XIII, Pius X, Benedict XV, and Pius XI



    Stop reading and posting this satanic filth before Heaven holds you accountable for scadalizing some poor youth reading this forum.





    Offline LordPhan

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    THE CASE AGAINST PIUS XII
    « Reply #2 on: October 23, 2011, 08:20:49 PM »
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  • Quote from: Vladimir
    Quote from: curiouscatholic23



    Pius XII Schismatically Subjected Himself to Antipopes Leo XIII, Pius X, Benedict XV, and Pius XI



    Stop reading and posting this satanic filth before Heaven holds you accountable for scadalizing some poor youth reading this forum.



    agreed! Get this garbage out of here!

    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    THE CASE AGAINST PIUS XII
    « Reply #3 on: October 23, 2011, 08:21:16 PM »
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  • Um...yeah, whoever wrote that is crazy. A few points:

    1- Pius X, Benedict XV, and Pius XI weren't antipopes (not sure about Leo XIII)
    2-Baptism of Desire has never been proven to be heresy
    3-It isn't 100% clear what Pius XII meant, so we can't say for certain he was refering to a NWO

    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.

    Offline curiouscatholic23

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    THE CASE AGAINST PIUS XII
    « Reply #4 on: October 23, 2011, 08:22:45 PM »
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  • Im sorry for posting that....I know I shouldn't...Heaven forgive me.

    However, I am starting to doubt seriously Pius XII papacy....NFP being a major reason why.


    Offline Charles

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    THE CASE AGAINST PIUS XII
    « Reply #5 on: October 23, 2011, 09:20:57 PM »
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  • I'm waiting for someone new to register and claim Leo X was the last true pope.

     :geezer:

    Offline Stephen Francis

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    THE CASE AGAINST PIUS XII
    « Reply #6 on: October 23, 2011, 09:38:16 PM »
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  • CC23, GET AWAY FROM THESE WEBSITES YOU KEEP VISITING!

    Why don't you get as moved by "The Story of a Soul" or "The Little Flowers of St. Francis" or some other approved, pious and holy writings?

    You are constantly throwing your faith to the winds of human opinion, and you are coming dangerously close to being the kind of person the Apostle St. James talked about... unstable in your ways and unfit for good works, because your conscience isn't settled on the things of God.

    You're running to MHFM or who knows what other sites and getting caught up in all their scandal-mongering.

    DO you have a traditionally-ordained, valid priest? HE is the person you should be talking to and making confession to INSTEAD of wasting your time with the nameless, faceless 'experts' out there, no matter whether they are claiming to be priests or not.

    You also must PLEASE stop talking about Pope Pius XII in that way. His OPINION about NFP was just that, an OPINION, and one applicable only in certain situations. The Holy Father did not make a dogmatic pronouncement about NFP, and neither was it or is it considered a part of the teaching of the Ordinary Magisterium. His Holiness was simply addressing an issue which was pressing at that time in history. To say that you doubt the validity of his reign as Pope over a relatively short collection of opinions about NFP is to be grasping at very thin straws indeed.

    It seems to me that you have been more interested in bulking up your arguments for being a sedevacantist rather than for being a traditional Roman Catholic.

    That, of course, is the danger (and the constant problem) in this age of the Church as She is being persecuted. There are more people now claiming to be 'traditional Catholics' because they have XYZ opinions (sede, NWO, Jєωs or whatever) rather than because they can be found actually PRACTICING the FAITH.

    Ask yourself, whoever is reading this, a simple question:

    Are you praying the Office and the Rosary, making confession, attending Mass and all the other things you are doing because "THEY'RE THE RIGHT THINGS TO DO, AND I CAN PROVE IT! NOT LIKE THOSE HERETICS IN THE VATICAN RIGHT NOW!!!"...

    ...or are you doing those things because Christ Jesus Our Lord has called you to Himself and you are taking up your cross daily and following Him?

    Are you RIGHT about your Faith, and therefore right with God, or are you right with God through your faith, and therefore right about the other issues?

    One attitude, the first one, is Protestant. They believe they are right with God because they 'believe'. It's natural effort, not supernatural faith. It's mental assent and not spiritual metamorphosis.

    The second attitude is the one that says that no matter what, you will persevere in the Faith once delivered to the saints, that you will obey Holy Church in all things and thus be saved from damnation through the graces God gives in His Church. THEN, because you are steadfast in the Faith that has not changed, you are able to face the changes, challenges and attacks that come against Christ's Church, and you are not some anonymous blogger or some vicious armchair wanna-be prelate... you're a child of God, in His Church and part of Our Lady's army which will see Her Immaculate Heart win the day, to the glory of Her Son.

    Which are you, curiouscatholic? I will pray that you will abandon the noisy gongs and clanging cymbals of the internet and seek the supernatural charity of heart and soul which only God gives, and only through His Church.

    It is LIVING the Faith, not KNOWING ABOUT the facts and figures, that will sustain you, me and all of us in this trying time and every one to come.

    Holy Apostles, pray for us.

    Immaculate Heart of Mary, triumph soon.

    Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us.
    This evil of heresy spreads itself. The doctrines of godliness are overturned; the rules of the Church are in confusion; the ambition of the unprincipled seizes upon places of authority; and the chief seat [the Papacy] is now openly proposed as a rewar

    Offline InfiniteFaith

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    THE CASE AGAINST PIUS XII
    « Reply #7 on: October 23, 2011, 10:07:46 PM »
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  • How is it that we have a Pope who is not really the Pope? Don't Popes get elected by Cardinals once something happens to the previous Pope? How is it that we could get a Pope who is an imposter? and even if he was an imposter the guy after him would get elected the same way that every other Pope got elected. So to me this anti-pope stuff makes no sense.


    Offline curiouscatholic23

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    THE CASE AGAINST PIUS XII
    « Reply #8 on: October 23, 2011, 10:28:46 PM »
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  • Quote from: Stephen Francis
    CC23, GET AWAY FROM THESE WEBSITES YOU KEEP VISITING!

    Why don't you get as moved by "The Story of a Soul" or "The Little Flowers of St. Francis" or some other approved, pious and holy writings?

    You are constantly throwing your faith to the winds of human opinion, and you are coming dangerously close to being the kind of person the Apostle St. James talked about... unstable in your ways and unfit for good works, because your conscience isn't settled on the things of God.

    You're running to MHFM or who knows what other sites and getting caught up in all their scandal-mongering.

    DO you have a traditionally-ordained, valid priest? HE is the person you should be talking to and making confession to INSTEAD of wasting your time with the nameless, faceless 'experts' out there, no matter whether they are claiming to be priests or not.

    You also must PLEASE stop talking about Pope Pius XII in that way. His OPINION about NFP was just that, an OPINION, and one applicable only in certain situations. The Holy Father did not make a dogmatic pronouncement about NFP, and neither was it or is it considered a part of the teaching of the Ordinary Magisterium. His Holiness was simply addressing an issue which was pressing at that time in history. To say that you doubt the validity of his reign as Pope over a relatively short collection of opinions about NFP is to be grasping at very thin straws indeed.

    It seems to me that you have been more interested in bulking up your arguments for being a sedevacantist rather than for being a traditional Roman Catholic.

    That, of course, is the danger (and the constant problem) in this age of the Church as She is being persecuted. There are more people now claiming to be 'traditional Catholics' because they have XYZ opinions (sede, NWO, Jєωs or whatever) rather than because they can be found actually PRACTICING the FAITH.

    Ask yourself, whoever is reading this, a simple question:

    Are you praying the Office and the Rosary, making confession, attending Mass and all the other things you are doing because "THEY'RE THE RIGHT THINGS TO DO, AND I CAN PROVE IT! NOT LIKE THOSE HERETICS IN THE VATICAN RIGHT NOW!!!"...

    ...or are you doing those things because Christ Jesus Our Lord has called you to Himself and you are taking up your cross daily and following Him?

    Are you RIGHT about your Faith, and therefore right with God, or are you right with God through your faith, and therefore right about the other issues?

    One attitude, the first one, is Protestant. They believe they are right with God because they 'believe'. It's natural effort, not supernatural faith. It's mental assent and not spiritual metamorphosis.

    The second attitude is the one that says that no matter what, you will persevere in the Faith once delivered to the saints, that you will obey Holy Church in all things and thus be saved from damnation through the graces God gives in His Church. THEN, because you are steadfast in the Faith that has not changed, you are able to face the changes, challenges and attacks that come against Christ's Church, and you are not some anonymous blogger or some vicious armchair wanna-be prelate... you're a child of God, in His Church and part of Our Lady's army which will see Her Immaculate Heart win the day, to the glory of Her Son.

    Which are you, curiouscatholic? I will pray that you will abandon the noisy gongs and clanging cymbals of the internet and seek the supernatural charity of heart and soul which only God gives, and only through His Church.

    It is LIVING the Faith, not KNOWING ABOUT the facts and figures, that will sustain you, me and all of us in this trying time and every one to come.

    Holy Apostles, pray for us.

    Immaculate Heart of Mary, triumph soon.

    Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us.


    Stephen Francis, you are right. I have a lot of spiritual pride and scruples. Its terrible. I go from one website to another searching about BOD and NFP. Its a curiosity that won't go away- and I admit its not healthy to my spiritual health. I have a hatred in my heart for Vatican 2 becuase it has destroyed my extended catholic family on both sides. Please pray for me that I may remain humble as the Virgin herself. And like I said, I apologize for attacking the Papacy of Pius XII...he did what he could to protect the church in WW2.

    Offline Diego

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    THE CASE AGAINST PIUS XII
    « Reply #9 on: October 23, 2011, 10:35:51 PM »
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  • There are some interesting accusations against Pacelli/Pius XII in the late Mary Ball Martinez' "The Undermining of the Catholic Church" ASIN: B0006EZHKS (available at the bookstore here http://www.omnicbc.com ). Mrs. Martinez was a well-connected Vatican journalist and insider.

    For me, the three most significant accusations are:
    (1) Pacelli's banking family was connected to the Rothschilds.
    (2) Pacelli was mentored by the infamous Freemason Cardinal Secretary of State (under Leo XIII) Rampolla, and
    (3) Pacelli was the first to allow another infamous Freemason Annibale Bugnini to tamper with the Canon of the Mass and to revise the Holy Week liturgy regarding the Jєωs.

    Those familiar with events of the conclave after the death of Leo XIII, will better understand twentieth century history, especially the World Wars and the decline of the Catholic Church.



    Offline ora pro me

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    THE CASE AGAINST PIUS XII
    « Reply #10 on: October 23, 2011, 10:36:54 PM »
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  • CuriousCatholic,
    Don't you have a priest that you can talk to about these issues?  


    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    THE CASE AGAINST PIUS XII
    « Reply #11 on: November 13, 2011, 03:45:57 PM »
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  • Quote from: Diego
    There are some interesting accusations against Pacelli/Pius XII in the late Mary Ball Martinez' "The Undermining of the Catholic Church" ASIN: B0006EZHKS (available at the bookstore here http://www.omnicbc.com ). Mrs. Martinez was a well-connected Vatican journalist and insider.

    For me, the three most significant accusations are:
    (1) Pacelli's banking family was connected to the Rothschilds.
    (2) Pacelli was mentored by the infamous Freemason Cardinal Secretary of State (under Leo XIII) Rampolla, and
    (3) Pacelli was the first to allow another infamous Freemason Annibale Bugnini to tamper with the Canon of the Mass and to revise the Holy Week liturgy regarding the Jєωs.

    Those familiar with events of the conclave after the death of Leo XIII, will better understand twentieth century history, especially the World Wars and the decline of the Catholic Church.




    You can find the book "The Undermining of the Catholic Church" by Mary
    Bell Martinez online in PDF for free.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    THE CASE AGAINST PIUS XII
    « Reply #12 on: November 13, 2011, 04:05:33 PM »
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  • Quote from: curiouscatholic23
    . Its terrible. I go from one website to another searching about BOD and NFP.


    There's no point in having scruples about NFP and BOD.  If BOD idheretical, then a huge proportion of saints were heretics.  It can't possibly be heretical.

    As for NFP, remember that a spouse may demand the marriage debt at any time.  For that reason, even if the couple were to agree to abstinence because of penury, if one spouse asks for the marriage debt during the infertile period, the other can't refuse.  It's the intent that could make it sinful, not the fact that it's not complete abstinence.



    Offline roscoe

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    THE CASE AGAINST PIUS XII
    « Reply #13 on: November 13, 2011, 04:29:26 PM »
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  • Mrs Martinez is full of crap.
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'